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Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

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Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Old 08-23-2009, 04:45 PM
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malice23
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Default Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

My diff oils are 7k front, 10k center, and 3k rear. I have read that I can increase the center diff oil to 15 k to solve the problem but it sounds bit hight to me. But if thats the only solution I will change it. Right now I cant get out to the hobby store for a few weeks so what other alternatives can I consider? Would decreasing the front diff oil help? The truck is an XT8 2009 SPEC. Any advice is greatly apprecitated.
Old 08-23-2009, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Thicker centre oil or lock centre - worked for me.
Old 08-23-2009, 05:11 PM
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malice23
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

could the problem also be that my rear shock pistons are too soft? maybe the rear is settling too much and the front doesnt stay down. Also, what would happen if I lightened the front oil?
Old 08-23-2009, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

id think it is the center i had real light oil in mine then saw my tires ballooned a ton so put thicker oil in the center and it will help
Old 08-23-2009, 05:16 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

front ballooning doesn't hurt a thing in a truggy, in fact it helps handling IMO....nothing to worry about its perfectly normal....
Old 08-23-2009, 08:35 PM
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malice23
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

I have a monster motor in the xt8...its a RT28 motor from RB. It put out insane power and Im afraid no matter what I do Im going to get the ballooning. But...I will try to tone it down as much as I can...should I do 15k in the center or 20k? I have 40wt in the rear shocks and 50wt up front with the 1.5 6hole pistons up front and the 1.4 6hole pistons in the rear. Maybe some stiffer springs n the rear to shift some of the weight forward? ...Its either too much power from the motor or the diff oil has to be changed to accomodate the power more effectively. I think my set-up is pretty basic with the 7/10/3. 7/20/3 sounds weird but if I have to do it I guess I will. so the question is 15k in the center or 20 k?
Old 08-23-2009, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

if your racing keep what you have. if your bashing go with 20. the thicker the fluid you have in the center diff will matter the amount of power output to the wheels. if you have 1000 wt fluid in the center only the front will be working because you dont want the back to slide out. if you put 100,0000 fluid in the center it will be like locking the center diff. all the tires will spin equally on power. causing the truck to wheelie and slide out when turning on power.
Old 08-23-2009, 11:47 PM
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malice23
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Well Im gonna be doing a bit of both so Im trying to find middle ground...The XRAY forum guys are running like 5,5,3 AND 5,5,2 and some low numbers like that...Im not sure what effect it will have with those fluids. It seems very light to me. Even if I race though, on a straight I dont want my fronts ballooning so much. You need those tires to claw away, when they balloon you have like 1/3rd the grip in the front.
Old 08-24-2009, 12:40 AM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

No matter what you do the front will balloon...its normal in a Truggy !

thickening the center will not stop it, in fact it can make it worse...thickening the center will just allow your truggy to raise the front end even easier, which of course results in tire ballooning...except with your front end off the ground and the front end will be very light

a thin center will also allow the front to balloon, but it makes it harder for the truggy to raise the front end...so even tho the front is ballooning the front is at least on the ground with some weight on it

Tire selection makes a huge difference...some tires balloon much worse then others...AKA tires are about the most solid

A thick center will allow your machine to acelerate harder, but you will lose steering as your front end will be light

a thin center will not acelerate as well, but it corners better

center diff thickness wont make any real difference in tore ballooning... I have run all sorts of diff fluids and in the end a big motor is going to balloon the front tires no matter what...Even with a 30K center with my modified Picco 28 my front tires turn to frizbees, except my front end is dangling in the air... in fact I find the ballooning to be worse with a heavier fluid...because as soon as the front end gets lifted the front end goes crazy instantly.... IMO a thin center keeps the machine planted on all 4 tires better, more weight on the front end means less diffing out...the only reason to thicken the center is if your looking for stronger acceleration.......

As i say its perfectly normal... even my modified 21's will blow the front into a frizbee, the 28's just rip the tires to shreds...
Old 08-24-2009, 09:35 AM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Pick your truck up off the ground and tap the throttle. Do the tires ballon? If so, they may ballon with a thicker center oil. True the tires won't be rotating as fast when on the ground but you get the idea.

If you're worried about performance, I'd worry more about overall handling than tires balloning. Just changing the center oil weight will change the handling along with tire ballon. If there is some aspect of the handling you don't like, fix that first. Read up on what diff oil does to handling, then make your own informed decision:

[link]http://www.rc411.com/pages/howto.php?howto=24[/link]
Old 08-24-2009, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Malice, sounds like you've got the right oil in the diffs, but just can't tame the power of that engine. You could try running a smaller carb restrictor to even out the power delivery of that monster. I know it sounds like detuning, but alot of times it really helps in the drivability dept.
Old 08-24-2009, 10:03 AM
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malice23
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Supertib...good post I think you may be right!...And gravity junkie..yea off the ground they baloon as well and I will check the 411 site also. Lightweight I may have to do that! Detuning may work to tame it a bit along with some different tires. I ran it real rich one day and it did calm down if only a bit but I will try the restrictor and some better tires. My friends rc8t RTR has that crappy stock motor and he gets no ballooning in his tires...is it because of the weak motor? But that truck doesnt turn for anything, its like limo. Lightweight, I know my set-up is very basic its a good starting point but maybe I need to pitch the truck slightly forward to put some weight forward?
Old 08-24-2009, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

ORIGINAL: malice23

Supertib...good post I think you may be right!...And gravity junkie..yea off the ground they baloon as well and I will check the 411 site also. Lightweight I may have to do that! Detuning may work to tame it a bit along with some different tires. I ran it real rich one day and it did calm down if only a bit but I will try the restrictor and some better tires. My friends rc8t RTR has that crappy stock motor and he gets no ballooning in his tires...is it because of the weak motor? But that truck doesnt turn for anything, its like limo. Lightweight, I know my set-up is very basic its a good starting point but maybe I need to pitch the truck slightly forward to put some weight forward?

You will find a good .21 will be faster then your .28..... your 28 will balloon the tires more, but a .21 will go down the straights faster and have a higher top speed......What your experiencing is the reason why everyone runs .21's not .28's....... A .21 has almost as much torque, but has way more RPM, so it stays planted and pulls a higher top speed............28's for bashing, .21's for racing...A Truggy chassis just wastes the extra torque of a .28 ( as your seeing ).meanwhile a .21 will stay hooked up and pull to a higher top speed...... If you thicken the center a .28 may run with a .21 but as soon as you hit the corners your done......You see a .21 has enough power to balloon the tires too, just not as violently....so both 28 and 21 acelerate about the same, but because the .21 has a much higher RPM range it keep acelerating longer.....in fact sometimes a .28 spins so violently its also gets out acelerated by the .21's as well.... 28's are more powerful, .21's are faster
Old 08-24-2009, 12:59 PM
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malice23
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Makes total sense...But I spent over 300 for this motor and Ive used it so Im not gonna get much for it if I sell it. Although the .21 does sound like it would be better suited for this truck. When I get a hold of some more cash ILL get a .21 and Im not willing to sacrifice performance for thicker diff oil in the center which might not even work. It turns very well right now but I just might pitch the truck forward slightly....Whats the best way to do this? Stiffer pistons or oil in the shocks? any other rear suspension settings that will work?
Old 08-24-2009, 01:56 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!


ORIGINAL: malice23

Makes total sense...But I spent over 300 for this motor and Ive used it so Im not gonna get much for it if I sell it. Although the .21 does sound like it would be better suited for this truck. When I get a hold of some more cash ILL get a .21 and Im not willing to sacrifice performance for thicker diff oil in the center which might not even work. It turns very well right now but I just might pitch the truck forward slightly....Whats the best way to do this? Stiffer pistons or oil in the shocks? any other rear suspension settings that will work?

Is this your first time driving a truggy ? how much time do you have on it ? what did you drive before this ?
Old 08-24-2009, 03:02 PM
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malice23
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

oh no...not my first time but I am new to tuning in general. I had a hyper st pro before this truggy. It was way too heavy and although it steered well it was always to heavy to shift its weight around. So I upgraded to the xt8 which I love due to its lightness and the handling is great...even with my ballooning tires I out steer my friends rc8t and out jump it as well. I wanna know and learn more about set-up so I know how to tune for various conditions. My friend and I might be going racing soon and I want to know what I need to do to adjust accordingly.
Old 08-24-2009, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Xray XT8? Have you seen this? It's a good read whether you have an Xray vehicle or not:

http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/sho...p?file_id=4461

Excessive ballooning can be caused by too thin of a diff oil in the center which will transfer too much power to the front wheels. This can be exacerbated by the rear suspension being too soft; the weight shifts rearward, give the rear tires more traction, so the diff send the power to the tires with least resistance; the fronts. This is much like getting a full scale car stuck and you see the stuck tire doing nothing while the other tire spins like crazy.

Another problem would be that your foams are shot. The foams could be disintegrating and they get flung off the rim and the only thing keeping them contained at that point is the tire.
Old 08-24-2009, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

I have played with all sorts of center fluids.... with a nasty 28 I have found no solution... tried everything from 5K all the way to 30K..... Nothing helps and the front end constantly balloons... you can tune a .21's powerband, but a .28 is simply too violent to contain

Here is a video of 30K in the center of my MBX5T...fast track to halfway thru the video as the first half is a Savage.... you will see even tho it has a 30K center the front tires are still frizbees, except that they are off the ground

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...97284940363929
Old 08-24-2009, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!


ORIGINAL: malice23

oh no...not my first time but I am new to tuning in general. I had a hyper st pro before this truggy. It was way too heavy and although it steered well it was always to heavy to shift its weight around. So I upgraded to the xt8 which I love due to its lightness and the handling is great...even with my ballooning tires I out steer my friends rc8t and out jump it as well. I wanna know and learn more about set-up so I know how to tune for various conditions. My friend and I might be going racing soon and I want to know what I need to do to adjust accordingly.

Your X-Ray is just so light that your going to find it hard to tune the setup with a .28.... Right now your likely heavily overpowered, which is going to make things difficult...... You can try thickening the center a bit, as well as take some more droop out of the front, that may help keep your front end planted...as well maybe add a little more anti squat .....Also the Truggy is going to handle better once it fully breaks in, X-Rays like Mugens take some time to loosen up and develop some slop...... What tires are you running ? that can make a huge difference as well..... I am running AKA Citiblocks on the front and AKA I-Beams on the rear, seems to work well in my conditions....... But IMO no matter what you do your always going to be overpowering the front tires with that RB 28... Nice engine for sure, but really way too much torque for track racing....
Old 08-24-2009, 04:34 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

Im running the JConcepts crosshairs on front and rear. Brand new tires only ran twice. Ill toy with the settings for the suspension and see what happens also. That video you had 30k oil? wow it obviously did nothing lol. Maybe Ill try 15k center but at this point I will try the suspension settings topitch her forward a bit.
Old 08-25-2009, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!


ORIGINAL: malice23

My friends rc8t RTR has that crappy stock motor and he gets no ballooning in his tires...is it because of the weak motor?
IMO The stock RC8T motor is in no way CRAPPY or WEAK.. It may not be the best motor around, but break it in right and tune it right and it will scream like a scalded dog...
Old 08-25-2009, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

dude...the first day we started it the carb was defective. It wouldnt even slide open unless you sprayed some lube on the slide valve...doesnt hold a good tune and the power is pretty lame...Drive an RB and youll see power. On the straights I leave the rc8t so far behind its not even fair. Which is why my friend is buyin a new .21 Its common knowledge that that motor blows dude, truck rocks but not the motor. No offense buddy lol.
Old 08-25-2009, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

ORIGINAL: malice23

dude...the first day we started it the carb was defective. It wouldnt even slide open unless you sprayed some lube on the slide valve...doesnt hold a good tune and the power is pretty lame...Drive an RB and youll see power. On the straights I leave the rc8t so far behind its not even fair. Which is why my friend is buyin a new .21 Its common knowledge that that motor blows dude, truck rocks but not the motor. No offense buddy lol.

If I had those problems on a new ride it would be going back to the store same day for an exchange... I've not had any problems with motors that are so called crappy and weak... Every ride I get I tear down the motor clean it and seal it before it ever starts. Everyone complained about the 3.3 in the revo being crap mine runs so smooth its not even funny and will hold a tune 4ever same with the associated .28. Have you tried the duct tape trick to stop your ballooning? If not take you some grey duct tape cut you some about
1-1/2" wide and apply it to the inside of the center of the tire and let it overlap about an inch and youll have no more ballooning problems.
Old 08-25-2009, 10:58 PM
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

We bought the rc8t from an out of state shop and we didnt wanna go through the hassle of shipping charges etc ..you know how that goes but needless to say it was dissapointing for a new motor...Im not entirely clear on where to apply the tape...On the inside of the tire were it meets the foam?or to the rim to stick the foams on to the rim? Explain again please thanks!
Old 08-25-2009, 11:06 PM
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malice23
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Default RE: Truggy front tires ballooning. HELP!

I recently read that proline holeshot tires have a bigger "inner rib" that protects from ballooning...any1 heard anything about this?

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