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Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

Old 03-03-2011, 08:07 AM
  #26  
mrwad
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

Hey there, Warbird 1,

I'm building the Top Flite AT-6 and was wondering..........Will a Saito 100 be enough or should I go to a 1.25 ? What do you guy's think ?? [sm=confused.gif]

Don
Old 03-03-2011, 09:44 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: mrwad

Hey there, Warbird 1,

I'm building the Top Flite AT-6 and was wondering..........Will a Saito 100 be enough or should I go to a 1.25 ? What do you guy's think ?? [sm=confused.gif]

Don
What does the kit recommend...
Old 03-03-2011, 09:52 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

Hi

One would hate to see a model crash from a discovered problem corrected poorly

The Byron AT 6 you are building is going to come in at around 20lbs or more properly CG'ed. At the time these were put out, engines were not nearly as powerful as they are today and linkage like Byron's could support the model at that time.

However, today's engine are going to put more loads on this linkage set up, and from the geometry shown in your pic, they will flutter or fail to lift the nose when needed. Wire off carbon rod is too long, it will bend, carbon is useless in this configuration.

With such a large hollow composite fuse, I would do what has always worked for me and my buddies to minimize any failure and play in the linkage.

If I knew how to link a pic from a post as an example of what I did for my CMP 109, I would do it. But if you are interested, I think on page 14 of that old and long build thread, I have a pic of my elevator set up. In your case you could use 2 servos working together. Also it conceals the linkage.

Just my 2Cents

Steve
Old 03-03-2011, 10:04 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: invertmast


ORIGINAL: mrwad

Hey there, Warbird 1,

I'm building the Top Flite AT-6 and was wondering..........Will a Saito 100 be enough or should I go to a 1.25 ? What do you guy's think ?? [sm=confused.gif]

Don
What does the kit recommend...
i believe the question was to me , thanks ,....... i think a 100 would be more than enough. if it's the one i'm thinking of, it is a .60 size right? the 100 would be good. i however am not a fan of wire gear on that plane and would contact robart about a set of gear with oleo struts if it's within your budget. i also saw that they now have small 4-strokes that run on gas. i think that's awesome. you can't beat the reliability of a gas engine. hope this helps , WB-1
Old 03-03-2011, 10:19 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

Hi

One would hate to see a model crash from a discovered problem corrected poorly

The Byron AT 6 you are building is going to come in at around 20lbs or more properly CG'ed. At the time these were put out, engines were not nearly as powerful as they are today and linkage like Byron's could support the model at that time.

However, today's engine are going to put more loads on this linkage set up, and from the geometry shown in your pic, they will flutter or fail to lift the nose when needed. Wire off carbon rod is too long, it will bend, carbon is useless in this configuration.

With such a large hollow composite fuse, I would do what has always worked for me and my buddies to minimize any failure and play in the linkage.

If I knew how to link a pic from a post as an example of what I did for my CMP 109, I would do it. But if you are interested, I think on page 14 of that old and long build thread, I have a pic of my elevator set up. In your case you could use 2 servos working together. Also it conceals the linkage.

Just my 2Cents

Steve
i have to totally disagree with that. first... you will never get this plane built for under 25-30 lbs. the prototype took 14 oz. of nose weight just to get it to balance. my corsair took 3-4 lbs in the cowl to get it to balance . and that was building light. these build heavy because of the short noses. the carbon fiber rods i have are very rigid and they are only 14" long "about" . they have a straight run to the servo so there is no flex . funny thing is byron calls for a g-62 and 48 oz. or higher servos!! i don't think high toque servos even came out till the late 90's . if you think this is scary , you should see the way ziroli did things back in the day.... 1/4 " hardwood dowels. i used them and they worked!! i sometimes think some planes are over servoed if you understand the phrase.
i mean 300 oz. servo's on small jet surfaces. i can't beleive there could be that much load on a small surface. i think it's more because they are so precise in traveling and movement .
Old 03-03-2011, 10:54 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

guys , changed the topic to reflect more on the build than problem solving. here's some pics of her engine setup . keep in mine so things i changed and some not . story is i bought this from a third party . the original builder passed away from cancer and i picked it up " like i said" third hand so i'm redoing somethings that were done and continuing on with the build . i'll post earlier pics soon. yes, that funny looking cloth near the formers is drywall tape , yes , drywall tape. i took a small media blaster to all the glassed areas to make sure i had a clean surface and re-glassed on both sides of the formers and redid them all. it's rock solid now. it's one of those things you find out after you buy something. fuse was painted so i had no idea it was like that. speaking of paint , here's a pic of me removing the paint. lot's of paint
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:38 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: MarkShapiro

Here is your solution pictured: This is my Byron T-28, but the plans recommended the same push rod set up. I hate long push rods. Disaster waiting to happen. Took a little work, but well worth the effort. Rudder is on standard pull-pull.
mark , i was going to do just that. wish i had now. good job
Old 03-04-2011, 08:48 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

ORIGINAL: warbird_1


ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

Hi

One would hate to see a model crash from a discovered problem corrected poorly

The Byron AT 6 you are building is going to come in at around 20lbs or more properly CG'ed. At the time these were put out, engines were not nearly as powerful as they are today and linkage like Byron's could support the model at that time.

However, today's engine are going to put more loads on this linkage set up, and from the geometry shown in your pic, they will flutter or fail to lift the nose when needed. Wire off carbon rod is too long, it will bend, carbon is useless in this configuration.

With such a large hollow composite fuse, I would do what has always worked for me and my buddies to minimize any failure and play in the linkage.

If I knew how to link a pic from a post as an example of what I did for my CMP 109, I would do it. But if you are interested, I think on page 14 of that old and long build thread, I have a pic of my elevator set up. In your case you could use 2 servos working together. Also it conceals the linkage.

Just my 2Cents

Steve
i have to totally disagree with that. first... you will never get this plane built for under 25-30 lbs. the prototype took 14 oz. of nose weight just to get it to balance. my corsair took 3-4 lbs in the cowl to get it to balance . and that was building light. these build heavy because of the short noses. the carbon fiber rods i have are very rigid and they are only 14'' long ''about'' . they have a straight run to the servo so there is no flex . funny thing is byron calls for a g-62 and 48 oz. or higher servos!! i don't think high toque servos even came out till the late 90's . if you think this is scary , you should see the way ziroli did things back in the day.... 1/4 '' hardwood dowels. i used them and they worked!! i sometimes think some planes are over servoed if you understand the phrase.
i mean 300 oz. servo's on small jet surfaces. i can't beleive there could be that much load on a small surface. i think it's more because they are so precise in traveling and movement .

So you disagree that my estimate Cg'ed properly would be 20lbs or more. 25lbs-30 is over 20lbs..?? I have seen the same models have variations in weight by 10lbs. Not unheard of.

Geometry of the current linkage would be a concern . Just turn on your radio and push to load the rod/wire set up. That will give you an idea. That's pretty much will determine it.

I agree on your statement about the servos. Truly over kill. I would prefer a servo with no slop oppose to a servo that is over rated with slop.

A structural engineer once told me the the difference between a good engineer and a bad one is, the bad one over engineers. I might be a bad one.

Steve
Old 03-09-2011, 07:15 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

What a fun project. Making great strides. I have seen a scale muffler that woud suit that plane and engine wonderfuly.

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Old 03-09-2011, 07:55 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: TheEdge

What a fun project. Making great strides. I have seen a scale muffler that woud suit that plane and engine wonderfuly.

edge , are you referring to your muffler in the pic?
Old 03-09-2011, 07:58 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

That is correct
Old 03-09-2011, 08:15 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: TheEdge

That is correct
great setup but loud. i'm sure the clubs around here would love that lol
Old 03-09-2011, 08:18 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

ORIGINAL: warbird_1


ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

Hi

One would hate to see a model crash from a discovered problem corrected poorly

The Byron AT 6 you are building is going to come in at around 20lbs or more properly CG'ed. At the time these were put out, engines were not nearly as powerful as they are today and linkage like Byron's could support the model at that time.

However, today's engine are going to put more loads on this linkage set up, and from the geometry shown in your pic, they will flutter or fail to lift the nose when needed. Wire off carbon rod is too long, it will bend, carbon is useless in this configuration.

With such a large hollow composite fuse, I would do what has always worked for me and my buddies to minimize any failure and play in the linkage.

If I knew how to link a pic from a post as an example of what I did for my CMP 109, I would do it. But if you are interested, I think on page 14 of that old and long build thread, I have a pic of my elevator set up. In your case you could use 2 servos working together. Also it conceals the linkage.

Just my 2Cents

Steve
i have to totally disagree with that. first... you will never get this plane built for under 25-30 lbs. the prototype took 14 oz. of nose weight just to get it to balance. my corsair took 3-4 lbs in the cowl to get it to balance . and that was building light. these build heavy because of the short noses. the carbon fiber rods i have are very rigid and they are only 14'' long ''about'' . they have a straight run to the servo so there is no flex . funny thing is byron calls for a g-62 and 48 oz. or higher servos!! i don't think high toque servos even came out till the late 90's . if you think this is scary , you should see the way ziroli did things back in the day.... 1/4 '' hardwood dowels. i used them and they worked!! i sometimes think some planes are over servoed if you understand the phrase.
i mean 300 oz. servo's on small jet surfaces. i can't beleive there could be that much load on a small surface. i think it's more because they are so precise in traveling and movement .

So you disagree that my estimate Cg'ed properly would be 20lbs or more. 25lbs-30 is over 20lbs..?? I have seen the same models have variations in weight by 10lbs. Not unheard of.

Geometry of the current linkage would be a concern . Just turn on your radio and push to load the rod/wire set up. That will give you an idea. That's pretty much will determine it.

I agree on your statement about the servos. Truly over kill. I would prefer a servo with no slop oppose to a servo that is over rated with slop.

A structural engineer once told me the the difference between a good engineer and a bad one is, the bad one over engineers. I might be a bad one.

Steve
i'm only talking about the byron weighing in at MORE than 20 lbs. never happen i built a ziroli p-40 all up flying weight dry was 26 lbs and that was built out of balsa and ply only. even that was unheard of really for that plane. it surprised me and everyone else
Old 03-09-2011, 08:19 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

Some wire wool placed inside the flex hose works well at baffling that obnoxious sound.
Old 03-09-2011, 08:45 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild


ORIGINAL: warbird_1

...yes, that funny looking cloth near the formers is drywall tape , yes , drywall tape...

Re that drywall tape, it is fiberglass with a light tack to one side to hold it in place. I have used it and it has worked well for me. It does take some filling to smooth it out, but no more than full weave glass cloth. How did it work for that application?


Regards, Richard
Old 06-12-2012, 02:58 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

OK ... nothing like better late than never. a lot has gone on since i started this thread over a year ago. The plane since has been finished and flown within the last two weeks. a quick rundown on the flight before getting back to the finish work. while setting up the g-62 i installed a velocity stack on the carb . i did some engine testing and thought i was good to go. well on the first flight i found out differently . Take off was perfect no trim required except some up elevator trim. I was having trouble getting good usable throttle control. part of the problem was setup adjustment and the other was inconstant throttle response. After flying around awhile i decided to attempt a landing practice approach. i decided to leave flaps up just in case i got to slow. As i approached the end of the runway the engine quit so i flew it down the runway till i got the mains on the ground and just let it run out into the tall weeds as i had a lot of speed left. if i would have tried to turn it i would most likely have caught one wing first and ripped it apart. so i hit the weeds and it slowed it down alot before it came up on the nose and over on it's back. i did break the canopy but that was it. for a 33 lbs. plane i was lucky. so i got it patched up and ran the engine again . all seemed good . so on the second flight the same thing happened , engine quit at the same spot but this time i had the flaps down so i was able to get it down with a few bounces. third flight that day started out with me removing the velocity stack . the engine ran perfect . i got a good flight in except for the landing was a little bouncy . after watching tons of full scale video's of t-6's landing i saw where my problem was. you need a high idle and a very steep approach with full flaps . last sunday i did just that and the landing was absolutely beautiful. so on to the build . i used klass cote paints. i found them a little unfriendly to use but i got though it. a piece of advice... use their thinner and primmer only ! i'll add pics as i got and give a rundown of things i changed . so here we go ...........>
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:09 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

Here's the flap setup. after building the flaps per byron's instructions and using their materials i had a problem... the wood went nuts after sitting on my bench for 2 weeks. they warped bad so i called FTE and bought some g-10 material . it was heaver but much more stable so i used that . they came out good
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

here's the gear door setup. i also had to change it because i wasn't using byron's gear . i have robart 161 gear
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:21 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Byron AT-6 Build /Rebuild

more gear doors
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:20 AM
  #45  
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Default

Originally Posted by MarkShapiro View Post
And the finished product: Not only is this a much better mechanical set up, there are no ugly push rods coming out of the fuselage sides. I hate that.
very nice
Old 09-17-2013, 05:37 AM
  #46  
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ok , so i know this is an old thread but i thought i'd let you guys know that i did finish the plane last summer and only flew it a hand ful of times. i had a severe bounce issue which is common for scale AT-6's . i solved it by by changing the gear rake and moving the CG forward. She flys great. after some long hard thinking i decided to put her up for sale as i'm hot to find a yellow p-38 or p-40 kit. it turned out so nice i really hate to let her go ,but you can't have it all . here's the pics i had taken of here in flight and on the bench. enjoy WB_
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:00 PM
  #47  
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