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ESM FW D-9

Old 11-07-2011, 12:47 PM
  #1051  
ticketec
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: n8622t

Thanks for the 53cc run video Speed hair over 7000rpm on a 19X11 3 blade is pretty respectable...So you go to a 20X12 or 21X10 and you should be in the mid 6000 range, Sweet, that should blister the sky. The engine has some decent authority in power based on Tics video...My YZ 48cc twin with a 20X10 never pulled out of a climb like Tics FW did. This is a good engine guys

Jimmy
Yeah not bad at all. Ideally I would love to spin a 22x8 3-blade, but I think It might still be just that little bit too much for a stock engine. There are a couple of little things I will do to the engine now that I have the cowl off the model again, and i can't wait till I get through the 5gal of running in fuel I prepared to get it on some decent stuff I'll run it up with the 22x8 2 blade to get what figures I get. Those prices for Xoar props wasn't too bad at all!! I better go see how much shipping to Oz will set me back.

In terms of the vertical now, It's a little short from what i would like, but to be fair, I did a 1/3 throttle pass, gunned it and pulled up at the same time so she didn't get a chance to build up speed. I still feel that the weather conditions on the day made it hard work for the model and I'll looking forward to flying it in decent wind conditions and not the blustery 10-15kts we were getting.

Thanks

dave



Thanks

dave
Old 11-07-2011, 12:59 PM
  #1052  
flycatch
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

I'm not an aeronautical engineer but I have built and flown aerial targets for the USA military. We had our own soviet fixed and rotary wing assests in 1/4 scale. In addition to the soviet fleet we also produced USA airforce airframes in the same scale. The airframes ranged in weight from 65 lbs to 150 lbs. No two flew alike based upon wing loading. I have flown ESM products and they are all built overweight. Once airborne they fly but we both no that takeoff and landing are the most critical part of any flight.
Old 11-07-2011, 01:05 PM
  #1053  
n8622t
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: ticketec

ORIGINAL: n8622t

Thanks for the 53cc run video Speed hair over 7000rpm on a 19X11 3 blade is pretty respectable...So you go to a 2 balde 20X12 or 21X10 and you should be in the mid 6000 range, Sweet, that should blister the sky. The engine has some decent authority in power based on Tics video...My YZ 48cc twin with a 20X10 never pulled out of a climb like Tics FW did. This is a good engine guys

Jimmy
Yeah not bad at all. Ideally I would love to spin a 22x8 3-blade, but I think It might still be just that little bit too much for a stock engine. There are a couple of little things I will do to the engine now that I have the cowl off the model again, and i can't wait till I get through the 5gal of running in fuel I prepared to get it on some decent stuff I'll run it up with the 22x8 2 blade to get what figures I get. Those prices for Xoar props wasn't too bad at all!! I better go see how much shipping to Oz will set me back.

In terms of the vertical now, It's a little short from what i would like, but to be fair, I did a 1/3 throttle pass, gunned it and pulled up at the same time so she didn't get a chance to build up speed. I still feel that the weather conditions on the day made it hard work for the model and I'll looking forward to flying it in decent wind conditions and not the blustery 10-15kts we were getting.

Thanks

dave



Thanks

dave
the prop will fix a lot of stuff
Old 11-07-2011, 01:11 PM
  #1054  
n8622t
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: flycatch

Nice looking semiscale airframe if you like flying lead sleds.
Sorry to climb on with the others there Fly guy...sometimes you have to look at the evidence that lies before your eyes I really dont think tic did a photo shop on that video...Just my thinking Besides, I believe you are talking about the smaller versions of ESM products. These bigger birds have much better wing loading than their smaller counterparts, you might need to redo your whole way a thinking on these planes.[X(]

jimmy
Old 11-07-2011, 02:06 PM
  #1055  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: flycatch

Any model with a wing loading above 40 is ''hot and nasty''.
Wrong!!!! As the wingspan, thus wing area goes up, wingloading can be much higher and still float rather easily. A little GWS 33" with a 20oz/sq in. wingloading is HOT and nasty, but an 80" plane with 40-50oz/sq in. is normal.

I have one and so does a friend of mine...a 95" B-25 and the wingloading is decent at well over 40. It definitely does NOT need to come in Hot and Nasty at all.
Old 11-07-2011, 02:39 PM
  #1056  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: flycatch

I'm not an aeronautical engineer but I have built and flown aerial targets for the USA military. We had our own soviet fixed and rotary wing assests in 1/4 scale. In addition to the soviet fleet we also produced USA airforce airframes in the same scale. The airframes ranged in weight from 65 lbs to 150 lbs. No two flew alike based upon wing loading. I have flown ESM products and they are all built overweight. Once airborne they fly but we both no that takeoff and landing are the most critical part of any flight.
Yes, they are very critical in takeoff and landing
Old 11-07-2011, 06:32 PM
  #1057  
ticketec
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: flycatch

I'm not an aeronautical engineer but I have built and flown aerial targets for the USA military. We had our own soviet fixed and rotary wing assests in 1/4 scale. In addition to the soviet fleet we also produced USA airforce airframes in the same scale. The airframes ranged in weight from 65 lbs to 150 lbs. No two flew alike based upon wing loading. I have flown ESM products and they are all built overweight. Once airborne they fly but we both no that takeoff and landing are the most critical part of any flight.

I have done a little aeronautical engineering training and I can tell you that this model in no "lead sled".

If the takeoff and landing speed of this model as you see in the video are a concern to you, then I'm guessing that you havent really experienced a "lead sled".

Thanks

dave
Old 11-07-2011, 09:21 PM
  #1058  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: flycatch
Nice looking semiscale airframe if you like flying lead sleds.

Did you even watch the video before posting? Have you ever had a large scale warbird before? A wing loading of 40 oz/sq. ft. on most 80+ inch span warbirds is on the light side which is demonstrated quite handily in ticketec's video of the 190 test flight.
Old 11-07-2011, 11:54 PM
  #1059  
P47Pilot
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: ticketec

In terms of the vertical now, It's a little short from what i would like, but to be fair, I did a 1/3 throttle pass, gunned it and pulled up at the same time so she didn't get a chance to build up speed. I still feel that the weather conditions on the day made it hard work for the model and I'll looking forward to flying it in decent wind conditions and not the blustery 10-15kts we were getting.
Yes, I noticed thegusty windsfrom the video on some of the flybys and of course on final approach. Good work, man! Crosswind or headwind? The groundspeed on the very soft touchdown was impressivelylow, and I noticed no tendencies to her flicking or anything.

Cheers
Old 11-08-2011, 01:02 AM
  #1060  
ticketec
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

P47 Pilot,

Yeah the breeze caused it to really dance about as soon as I got near the treetop height. made me work a little It was swinging from about 30 degrees off runway centerline to about 70 degrees. Clearly not unflyable conditions, but I would not have flown if I could have certified it the next day.

All the stall test's I performed in various configurations showed no tendancies to drop a wing at all, and an extremely slow stall speed considering the weight and size of the airframe!!


ORIGINAL: n8622t

Thanks for the 53cc run video Speed hair over 7000rpm on a 19X11 3 blade is pretty respectable...So you go to a 20X12 or 21X10 and you should be in the mid 6000 range, Sweet, that should blister the sky. The engine has some decent authority in power based on Tics video...My YZ 48cc twin with a 20X10 never pulled out of a climb like Tics FW did. This is a good engine guys

Jimmy

Ok some more data on the engine from this afternoon.

I just tried the 22x10 and the 22x8 back to back. I'm still running my "running in" fuel blend which has a higher oil content, regular unleaded, and mineral based oil, but here are the RPM's

22x10, 5400rpm
22x8, 6300rpm

The 22x8 made the engine sound much happier and the theoretical pitch speed difference is about 4mph, so not a huge difference. She is all back together after I fixed the exhaust leak from the gaskets, and the 22x8 has been installed so the next flights will be with that prop for flight comparison.

Next I'll be working on the wing again starting with pulling out the sierra's and pulling them apart to make sure they are both working as well as each other.

Thanks

dave
Old 11-08-2011, 08:17 AM
  #1061  
kwik
 
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Ticketec;
Regarding Focke Wulf Sierras; Have some grease in the sliding tracks for the brass piece that slides back and forth.

That will do an end to the tendency of them not want to deploy. Somethimes they would "hesitate", then you hear a hard sound,
and they deploy. Somethimes they wont deploy, but only when you test them with no vibrations. Engine vibrations and other
movements will make them deploy anyway when you are flying.But they might "hesitate".

That grease will fix it. You dont need to remove them from the wing to do this. QTips fix it.
Old 11-08-2011, 08:34 AM
  #1062  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Great tip for any Sierra gear!

Thanks Kwik!

Casey
Old 11-08-2011, 02:50 PM
  #1063  
jeffk464
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: TA152


ORIGINAL: flycatch

I'm not an aeronautical engineer but I have built and flown aerial targets for the USA military. We had our own soviet fixed and rotary wing assests in 1/4 scale. In addition to the soviet fleet we also produced USA airforce airframes in the same scale. The airframes ranged in weight from 65 lbs to 150 lbs. No two flew alike based upon wing loading. I have flown ESM products and they are all built overweight. Once airborne they fly but we both no that takeoff and landing are the most critical part of any flight.
Yes, they are very critical in takeoff and landing
and nobody ever said warbirds were the best flying model airplanes. Lets face it modelers who do warbirds do it for the kick of building and flying historic planes. If all we wanted was the best flying planes we would all be flying pattern planes.
Old 11-08-2011, 04:45 PM
  #1064  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: jeffk464

ORIGINAL: TA152


ORIGINAL: flycatch

I'm not an aeronautical engineer but I have built and flown aerial targets for the USA military. We had our own soviet fixed and rotary wing assests in 1/4 scale. In addition to the soviet fleet we also produced USA airforce airframes in the same scale. The airframes ranged in weight from 65 lbs to 150 lbs. No two flew alike based upon wing loading. I have flown ESM products and they are all built overweight. Once airborne they fly but we both no that takeoff and landing are the most critical part of any flight.
Yes, they are very critical in takeoff and landing
and nobody ever said warbirds were the best flying model airplanes. Lets face it modelers who do warbirds do it for the kick of building and flying historic planes. If all we wanted was the best flying planes we would all be flying pattern planes.
So Jeff, what you are basically saying is, warbird pilots are professionals
Old 11-08-2011, 07:50 PM
  #1065  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

HI Dave.
I carry 20x10 3 bladed props if your interested.
Just PM me and I'll send you some info.

Cheers
Grossy
Old 11-10-2011, 12:26 PM
  #1066  
ticketec
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

I did end up pulling the Sierra's out, primarily because they were second hand and I didn't know what they have used peviously to lubriate them. It's no wonder they were a little stiff!! the grease had turned into a paste and was really thick. So a good cleanup, re-lub and they are operating soooo muich better. I've had to slow them down quite significantly on the way up now. on the way down, One of the legs is a fair bit slower than the other, but better than before. I also took the opportunity to open up the wheel well's just the little bit more as the wheels rubbed in one or two places ever so slightly.

I'm quite confident that the gear is going to operate much better now. I've been working on a HD cameraman, and I might be able to meet up with him in 2 weeks time to film the dora.

Looks like the cockpit kit from Thomas only just shipped, so it's going to be a couple of weeks before that even arrives + paint+ assembly = after christmas [&o]

I picked up a good bargin last night.....

Thanks

dave
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:41 PM
  #1067  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

I'll be maidening mine this weekend, weather looks good so no excuses!

Piccys and vid to come all being well...

Muds [8D]
Old 11-10-2011, 02:45 PM
  #1068  
ticketec
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

ORIGINAL: mudflap31

I'll be maidening mine this weekend, weather looks good so no excuses!

Piccys and vid to come all being well...

Muds [8D]
Good luck mate!!

Although, it's a very easy flyer so you shouldn't need to much of it

Thanks

dave
Old 11-10-2011, 03:30 PM
  #1069  
n8622t
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Go get em Muds we want a piccy of your big smile after you have a great flight

jimmy
Old 11-10-2011, 03:56 PM
  #1070  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Hoping for the best, Mudflap!

Allways nice to see that others have success with warbirds.

(And equally not so good when the gremlins strike....)
Old 11-10-2011, 04:18 PM
  #1071  
vertical grimmace
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Just picked up my Sierra gear today from VQ warbirds. Great service. About 4 days. They look really sweet. Gonna head to the shop and test them tonight. A couple of things I noticed, the axels are where the angle is to account for the dihedral, instead of the amount of travel the strut has. Different than the Robarts. Also they come complete with the door collars. I think in the end, it is cheaper to purchase these complete gear from VQ instead of Sierra.

I am wondering on the lubrication. Has anyone tried using powdered graphite? The stuff you spray in locks to keep them from freezing. A dry lube is almost always better than an oil based, for this kind of stuff. Maybe I will try it on mine. Also, if you have to lube the cylinders, what is the best thing to use that will not destroy the O rings?
Old 11-10-2011, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

Just picked up my Sierra gear today from VQ warbirds. Great service. About 4 days. They look really sweet. Gonna head to the shop and test them tonight. A couple of things I noticed, the axels are where the angle is to account for the dihedral, instead of the amount of travel the strut has. Different than the Robarts. Also they come complete with the door collars. I think in the end, it is cheaper to purchase these complete gear from VQ instead of Sierra.

I am wondering on the lubrication. Has anyone tried using powdered graphite? The stuff you spray in locks to keep them from freezing. A dry lube is almost always better than an oil based, for this kind of stuff. Maybe I will try it on mine. Also, if you have to lube the cylinders, what is the best thing to use that will not destroy the O rings?
Not sure about powdered graphite, but have used a small amount of silicone grease on retract moving parts with good success. Marvel Mystery air tool oil works well on air cylinder O-rings.
Old 11-10-2011, 07:28 PM
  #1073  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Hey Vertical,

Just letting you know that I recieved the exaust stacks yesterday. They shipped out from Fighteraces last monday.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:41 PM
  #1074  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9

Good score Dave they fly great i have one with a fitted bomb drop )Now you just need the Storch ( that will do as a reason to buy one lol )
Old 11-10-2011, 08:45 PM
  #1075  
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Default RE: ESM FW D-9


ORIGINAL: WWIIP38


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

Just picked up my Sierra gear today from VQ warbirds. Great service. About 4 days. They look really sweet. Gonna head to the shop and test them tonight. A couple of things I noticed, the axels are where the angle is to account for the dihedral, instead of the amount of travel the strut has. Different than the Robarts. Also they come complete with the door collars. I think in the end, it is cheaper to purchase these complete gear from VQ instead of Sierra.

I am wondering on the lubrication. Has anyone tried using powdered graphite? The stuff you spray in locks to keep them from freezing. A dry lube is almost always better than an oil based, for this kind of stuff. Maybe I will try it on mine. Also, if you have to lube the cylinders, what is the best thing to use that will not destroy the O rings?
Not sure about powdered graphite, but have used a small amount of silicone grease on retract moving parts with good success. Marvel Mystery air tool oil works well on air cylinder O-rings.
Do not use graphite Find a norgen site or festio and get there silicon grease put just a tiny bit in the end and use that ive done pneumatics for years trust me on this one cheers [:-]

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