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ESM FW D-9

Old 01-22-2014, 06:02 PM
  #2376  
Ramstein44
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Off the beaten path, you've got to see this nonsense.... What are kits coming too..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Top-...61375849745%26
Old 01-22-2014, 07:29 PM
  #2377  
Dowmer
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VG, very true....and sometimes you just pay more lol. I guess it depends.
Old 01-22-2014, 08:01 PM
  #2378  
thunder21
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Originally Posted by deadstick79
I seem to recall in this thread that there is an adapter so you don't have to drill four holes in your props!
Who makes it and would it work on my Turnigy 50cc electric?
Thanks
Dan
It seems to be more difficult to install this adapter than to drill holes in the prop. I suppose it depends on how many props you break...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...X527976X24.pdf

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...C51_DLE30.html

Last edited by thunder21; 01-22-2014 at 08:12 PM.
Old 01-22-2014, 08:19 PM
  #2379  
vertical grimmace
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Yah, Ram. That is just crazy. If you want a D9 in that size, it is easy to get a full kit and plans for the Pica/Platt design. A full kit with all accessories and plans would probably run just over $200. This would be with all fiberglass parts too. Not the ABS plastic. It would require a little research, but I guess some just want the original kits.
Old 01-23-2014, 08:39 AM
  #2380  
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Originally Posted by thunder21
It seems to be more difficult to install this adapter than to drill holes in the prop. I suppose it depends on how many props you break...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...X527976X24.pdf

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...C51_DLE30.html
Wow,
I did order the two cheap jigs for drilling the four holes from HK and they should be here in a couple days! I'll give that a whirl and then see how many props I break once she's flyin
Thanks,
Dan
Old 01-23-2014, 08:43 AM
  #2381  
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Hey All,
I cycled my Sierra's with the wing attached to the fuse and the right one stays locked and won't retract! They both come down fine (slow). I had adjusted the two valves on the Robart main valve to slow them down some and it's mighty cold in my garage! Don't know if that has anything to do with it! I am at 100psi also!
Do you prefer to leave those slow-down valves alone and go with the Robart restrictors? Or do you not restrict them at all?
I should have this girl ready to go in a week
Thanks,
Dan
Old 01-23-2014, 11:15 AM
  #2382  
vertical grimmace
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Does it retract with the wing off? If so, you probably pinched an air line when you put the wing on. I have never used restrictors. I have heard bad things about them. I have just used the needles on my valve. Honestly, I would not even worry about slowing your retraction/extension rate until you are comfortable it is all working well. Nobody is really gonna care, or even see your wheels go up or down anyway. What is import is that they actually work. The restrictors in the lines, are most certainly a failure point, and I personally would avoid those.
Old 01-23-2014, 02:41 PM
  #2383  
70 ragtop
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I agree with VG, need to check for pinched lines first. If that's not it, and you have same problem with wing off, I would then loosen the needles on the valve. Still does it, check for pinched line in the wing, (hand air pump directly to the airline), still no good, check for binding.
Guessing you have Robart valve?? I have had a couple of those that were VERY touchy, loosen the needles a touch and try it again. I've use BVM restrictors and never had a problem with them, just a piece of brass with a small hole in it. Crap in the air system will cause the same problems on needle valves, pinched lines (wheels collars) as it will restrictors
Old 01-23-2014, 02:58 PM
  #2384  
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Thanks guys!
I'm going to do as VG suggested and lose the needles altogether! NO ONE will see them retract for sure cause I'm the only one there
I had a hundred dollar Duralast 900 amp jump box for almost a month and it worked fine! Yesterday I pumped 100psi into the system and worked on it! This morning I tried to pump her up and the inflator stopped at 38psi. Did it several more times and it stopped at 38psi everytime! Went to recharge the jump box and it wouldn't charge up either! Jeeez, took it back to Autozone and they replaced it...
brought it home and that one won't charge either!
Cannot believe it!
I have a big air compressor here at home and I may just get one of those air tanks that you fill at home and use that instead!
Thanks again
Old 01-23-2014, 04:02 PM
  #2385  
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I have mentioned this before, but I very much DISLIKE the robart valve with needles. I have had several and they all have failed even after I had messed with them to get the needles set. Eventually, some minute vibration or jiggle makes the needles somehow either leak the air all out or close off the air so the gear wont deploy. This happened on my ESM me-110.

The 110 isn't the only plane Ive had that problem occur on using the robart red valve with needles.

I will no longer use them. Instead, I use the robart blue colored valve and then install air restrictors in the air lines. Those restrictors are NOT a failure point. The gear retract and deploy at a scale speed every time and there is no possibility of a needle bleeding the air out or choking it off.

Im sure there are people that have nothing but success with the red valves, but as VG is fond of saying......"failure point" is front and center on that design.
Old 01-23-2014, 04:04 PM
  #2386  
70 ragtop
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Originally Posted by deadstick79
Thanks guys!
I'm going to do as VG suggested and lose the needles altogether! NO ONE will see them retract for sure cause I'm the only one there
I had a hundred dollar Duralast 900 amp jump box for almost a month and it worked fine! Yesterday I pumped 100psi into the system and worked on it! This morning I tried to pump her up and the inflator stopped at 38psi. Did it several more times and it stopped at 38psi everytime! Went to recharge the jump box and it wouldn't charge up either! Jeeez, took it back to Autozone and they replaced it...
brought it home and that one won't charge either!
Cannot believe it!
I have a big air compressor here at home and I may just get one of those air tanks that you fill at home and use that instead!
Thanks again
Be careful, 100psi will get those long legs moving pretty fast with no air restrictions, the sudden stoppage can be hard on retracts, mounts, and wings!
Old 01-23-2014, 04:30 PM
  #2387  
vertical grimmace
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Originally Posted by kahloq
I have mentioned this before, but I very much DISLIKE the robart valve with needles. I have had several and they all have failed even after I had messed with them to get the needles set. Eventually, some minute vibration or jiggle makes the needles somehow either leak the air all out or close off the air so the gear wont deploy. This happened on my ESM me-110.

The 110 isn't the only plane Ive had that problem occur on using the robart red valve with needles.



I will no longer use them. Instead, I use the robart blue colored valve and then install air restrictors in the air lines. Those restrictors are NOT a failure point. The gear retract and deploy at a scale speed every time and there is no possibility of a needle bleeding the air out or choking it off.

Im sure there are people that have nothing but success with the red valves, but as VG is fond of saying......"failure point" is front and center on that design.
Well one thing is for sure Kahloq, if something has a failure point, you will find it! lol
Old 01-23-2014, 04:35 PM
  #2388  
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There are so many valves available, I am sure you can find something that works for you. I have a Red Robart valve, and have never had a problem with it, but many report having trouble. It is too bad they do not use a finer thread needle, then it would not be so sensitive to set. Also, it has been reported that thread lock is important to the success with this valve.
Old 01-23-2014, 04:35 PM
  #2389  
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Thread locker WAS used on the red valves. But no matter, I have several of them in my possession if you'd like to purchase a couple as they will never see the inside of any plane I own.

Last edited by kahloq; 01-23-2014 at 04:39 PM.
Old 01-23-2014, 05:01 PM
  #2390  
vertical grimmace
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Originally Posted by deadstick79
Thanks guys!
I'm going to do as VG suggested and lose the needles altogether! NO ONE will see them retract for sure cause I'm the only one there
I had a hundred dollar Duralast 900 amp jump box for almost a month and it worked fine! Yesterday I pumped 100psi into the system and worked on it! This morning I tried to pump her up and the inflator stopped at 38psi. Did it several more times and it stopped at 38psi everytime! Went to recharge the jump box and it wouldn't charge up either! Jeeez, took it back to Autozone and they replaced it...
brought it home and that one won't charge either!
Cannot believe it!
I have a big air compressor here at home and I may just get one of those air tanks that you fill at home and use that instead!
Thanks again
I always like browsing this site. You may find something of use here. http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/...sort=2a&page=3
Old 01-23-2014, 05:21 PM
  #2391  
70 ragtop
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If your having trouble getting needle valves to work right, I would recommend one 1/8" wheel collar on the "up" or "retract" air line and a basic valve. Put a dab of pink thread locker on the wheel collar set screw, test the gear, and adjust till happy. You can pretty much forget about it after that as it is very reliable

Putting the restriction on the "up" line will help slow the extend cycle once the gear unlocks. On heavy gear, especially ones with long legs, there is a lot of weight hanging on the up lock. It takes a bit of pressure to overcome this and unlock the gear. Once the gear unlocks, they want to slam down, but it still has to push the volume of air out of the other side of cylinder, past the restriction to extend. On problem gear, I like the wheel collar closer to the air cylinder

I have found this setup really helps smooth out the extend cycle


Just my 2 cents
Old 01-23-2014, 05:49 PM
  #2392  
70 ragtop
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Almost forgot, the single restriction on just the up line works better on larger gear (more volume). If you still get a bounce when extending, or on small cylinders, a restriction on both lines is the way to go.
If using wheel collars, set the one on the up side first, then the one on the down line. I have the small ESM190, and those gear had a terrible bounce on the extend cycle using the red Robart valve. Put restrictors in both lines, and they were as smooth as silk
Old 01-23-2014, 05:52 PM
  #2393  
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Thankks everybody!
The instructions state "For the fastest operation the needles may be removed". Really?
Old 01-23-2014, 07:59 PM
  #2394  
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Alas, they work! I did take the needles out and the retracts work great! They aren't beating up the wing either! I won't go for the scale look cause like I mentioned above... I only see them AND I like the look
Almost there now!
I made a ply tray for the batts and slid them forward so they're half way across the front former of the hatch cover and my CG was right-on and I mean right-on!
That was without the rx batt up front and minus the pilot, canopy and hatch! I mounted the air tank right under the cockpit floor (no cockpit kit). I figure the rx batt and esc will probably make her a tad nose heavy but that's how I like to maiden!
Gettin excited here!
Dan

Last edited by deadstick79; 01-23-2014 at 08:05 PM.
Old 01-24-2014, 04:40 AM
  #2395  
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Deadstick....I should warn you about using that red valve with no needles....
Yes it will work and that's what I ended up trying on the me-110 after the failure with deploying the gear.
The problem stems from the fact that the needle hole is now completely open and if the servo operating the valve doesn't close the valve all the way 100% in either direction, the valve just dumps out all your air.
This also happened on the me-110 causing a necessary belly landing during a warbirds over the Rockies show two years ago.....so two belly landings on that plane due to the red valve. on the ground, the servo operated the valve without issue and closed it off in both directions. But for some reason, it didn't once in the air....again...maybe vibration. It was a new futaba servo that was working the valve, so not a servo failure. maybe the O rings could have contributed.

One thing to remember about that tamjets failsafe device that Katniss mentioned is that it auto shuts off air after 15 secs no matter what...so a jammed valve(stuck slightly open) will not drain your air tank.
Seems like a good investment. I'm glad she linked to it because I had forgotten what it was called or where to get it because troybuilt used to have them, but doesnt anymore.
Old 01-24-2014, 05:59 AM
  #2396  
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[QUOTE=kahloq;11718982]Deadstick....I should warn you about using that red valve with no needles....
Yes it will work and that's what I ended up trying on the me-110 after the failure with deploying the gear.
The problem stems from the fact that the needle hole is now completely open and if the servo operating the valve doesn't close the valve all the way 100% in either direction, the valve just dumps out all your air.

What would happen if I took the needless and jam nuts out of my ROBART red valve and replaced them with an inch of air tubing and the wheel collar set up mentioned in an earlier post? Would that be a remedy for the course adjustment on the needle valves or not? IT won't solve the gear failure problem due to a leak but it might help the fine adjustment with the rate at witch the gears moves.
Old 01-24-2014, 07:31 AM
  #2397  
70 ragtop
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[QUOTE=HoundDog;11719021]
Originally Posted by kahloq
Deadstick....I should warn you about using that red valve with no needles....
Yes it will work and that's what I ended up trying on the me-110 after the failure with deploying the gear.
The problem stems from the fact that the needle hole is now completely open and if the servo operating the valve doesn't close the valve all the way 100% in either direction, the valve just dumps out all your air.

What would happen if I took the needless and jam nuts out of my ROBART red valve and replaced them with an inch of air tubing and the wheel collar set up mentioned in an earlier post? Would that be a remedy for the course adjustment on the needle valves or not? IT won't solve the gear failure problem due to a leak but it might help the fine adjustment with the rate at witch the gears moves.
No not really, but you could remove the needles and put the wheel collars on the lines between the valve and retracts. I have not personally ever removed the needle valves, but all they do is restrict exhaust air flow, so I don't see why you can't do it. That said, I will defer to those who have remove the needles to comment

If you have trouble with a bounce during extend using the red valve, adding a restrictor in both lines will help as you are slowing the volume of air both exiting, and entering the cyl. Once the uplock is released, the cyl doesn't have the volume of air behind it, and has to push the air out of the other side, so it smooth's out the bounce . Takes a bit of fiddling, but its not hard.

In my experience, smaller, or cheaper gear are harder to smooth out than larger, more expensive gear. This is because more expensive gear typically have brass rollers and nylon bushings on the slide, and the pivot points are all bushed....there is just less friction. Larger is also easier due to larger working area and volume of air.

Funny this subject came up, I happen to be working on gear for another model. No guarantees, but I can get a video tonight, I will post showing no restrictors, one restrictor, and two. I have a set of ESM retracts kicking around, and they definitely on the low end of the qty scale. Maybe I will demo restrictor setup on those

Last edited by 70 ragtop; 01-24-2014 at 07:33 AM.
Old 01-24-2014, 11:22 AM
  #2398  
vertical grimmace
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Originally Posted by thunder21
It seems to be more difficult to install this adapter than to drill holes in the prop. I suppose it depends on how many props you break...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...X527976X24.pdf

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...C51_DLE30.html
Valley view will install them for free when you buy the adapter with an engine purchase. They can be a little tricky without the right socket. It was worth it for me, to avoid the prop boring. Especially if I had to get a prop away from home at an event.
Old 01-24-2014, 12:07 PM
  #2399  
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I am looking to purchase a portable air pump to use on the flight line. Any suggestions?
Old 01-24-2014, 04:33 PM
  #2400  
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Originally Posted by dwaynenancy
I am looking to purchase a portable air pump to use on the flight line. Any suggestions?
I mentioned these a few pages back:
http://www.amazon.com/RAD-Sportz-Ele...air+compressor

http://www.amazon.com/Compressor-Eme...d_sim_sbs_hi_7

Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt...ssor-4077.html

This is the one I use and I LOVE it!!!!!
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt...9284-8788.html

I cut off the cig lighter adapter plug and soldered on a deans plug so I could plug in a cheap 3s 2200 lipo.....so I don't have to be near my car to fill up the air tanks on my planes. Works like a treat!

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