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Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

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Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Old 10-13-2011, 06:05 PM
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Loopman
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Default Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

My last thread "ESM Planes - RIPOFF" was locked by the "Moderator" because he thought that it was "a shame that we were having a discussion about ARFs in Warbirds". And, there were a few off topic comments made that "ired" some people. So, aside from the last comment, what are y'all's (you can tell I'm from Dixie) thoughts on whether ARF's are a good topic for Warbirds. I say they are as long as the plane in question is in some livery of past military usage. This is not about complaining about any manufacturer "per se" but about how we've overcome the challenges to make our ARF's look more the part of a legitimate warbird. Let the fun begin. And please, no discussions about bailouts, healthcare, or even "in-grown toenails". Keep it about the topic indicated.

Happy Flying!

Loopman
Old 10-13-2011, 06:25 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

The moderator was tired of the couple of pages of one member teeing off on another member and vice versa. When the balance of the posts tipped the scale over to mostly about each other, it was time to shut it down.

Nothing about spitting contests have anything to do with Warbirds. In fact, this thread also isn't about Warbirds, just about the forum rules. They're pretty clear. Read the one that's above this Fast Reply box for example.

Please resist the urge to curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass someone in your post. We encourage the free flow of your ideas, but believe that they can be communicated (and received) much more effectively if you keep things civil. If you have to vent, take it offline. We carefully monitor posts and will ban individuals who engage in offensive conduct within the forums. Thanks.
When the subject of a post is another member, it ain't about the topic of the thread very often. Members bickering about each other is really not going to pass muster. Kewl info about ARF Warbirds does.

Do ARF's belong in Warbirds. Absolutely. Discuss ARF Warbirds until hell freezes over, it's what the forum is for.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:37 PM
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tevans55
 
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

I love warbirds period. How they are made is irrelevant. Always has been...always will be.

I don't know if ARF's belong in Warbirds (awkwardly worded)....but, ARF's do belong in Dogs if that helps.
Old 10-13-2011, 06:43 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?


ORIGINAL: tevans55

I love warbirds period. How they are made is irrelevant. Always has been...always will be.

I don't know if ARF's belong in Warbirds (awkwardly worded)....but, ARF's do belong in Dogs if that helps.
lol.....

Wonder how many ARFs each dog has in him?

Yeah ARF warbirds have just as much reason to be in the forum as any warbird. Should we have a poll or is this pretty much a slam dunk question?
Old 10-13-2011, 06:52 PM
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Loopman
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

I can see its' all ready started. The comment about ARFs in Dogs has nothing to do with the intended post. Please keep to the post.

Happy Flying!

Loopman
Old 10-13-2011, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Loopman is experiencing his ARF tourretes again......but yes, ARF's can go in Warbirds, but I don't like them and they CANNOT go in "BUILDING" forums......but that don't mean I don't like people that fly ARF's

Barack Obama
Old 10-13-2011, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

I'm new to ARF building as I've only built fw190 kits with a few exceptions. Up until a few years ago, if you wanted a FW190, it came as kit but now the demand is higher and more ARFs are available. Thanks to the few companies doing this, I'm now fliping the worthy versions to be more accurate. there are several great companies making ARF's per say that are accurate like SIST.. I call it a Arf only because it saves you god know how many hours on the build and the parts are recognizable out of the box.. But this I know from experience is no way a "real" Arf since there's a ton of effort to the construction of them and I've built some smaller warbird kits faster.. I think they were guillows..lol

I'm sure with builders time restraints and the demand for scale realism that warbird Arf will get better but expect the prices to get worse! My SIST Dora had over 5k in her when finished and my ESM Dora is close to 3k.
Old 10-13-2011, 07:16 PM
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Loopman
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Guys,
With all due respect "Warbirds" is not just a building forum. A comment was made that "it was a shame that we were discussing ARF's in the Warbirds column". If that comment was not made please correct me. otherwise let's get on with the topic. And to set the record straight, it's not tourettes I suffer from but "TURRETS", I believe that may be a common affliction of may warbird lovers! Now, if any of you have any pics of before and after for your warbird ARFs, lets see them! The peanut gallery can continue now with whatever diatribe they see fitting! It's all about having fun guys!

Happy Flying!

Loopman
Old 10-13-2011, 07:35 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?


ORIGINAL: Loopman

Guys,
With all due respect ''Warbirds'' is not just a building forum. A comment was made that ''it was a shame that we were discussing ARF's in the Warbirds column''. If that comment was not made please correct me. otherwise let's get on with the topic.
Yeah it was made and just like many made around here should have had a bit more time in it's making. I really was going to say "It is a shame the discussion had shifted to bashing some ARFs and one ARF mfg, and each other in the Warbirds forum". But I didn't. So be it. At least the sentence was followed by further explanation that did give other reasons the thread was being locked. You're beginning to see for yourself why moderators don't always type long posts. that said.........

This thread really should not spin off into a discussion of the rules or a discussion of one sentence. If it does, it really will qualify for a move to the forum most suited to discussion of rules or sentences.

Wanna talk about what ARFs Warbirds, dis' be de place.


And to set the record straight, it's not tourettes I suffer from but ''TURRETS'', I believe that may be a common affliction of may warbird lovers! Now, if any of you have any pics of before and after for your warbird ARFs, lets see them! The peanut gallery can continue now with whatever diatribe they see fitting! It's all about having fun guys!

Happy Flying!

Loopman

AS for the "peanut gallery [now having permission to] go off on whatever diatribe they see fitting"...... sorry but the "whatever" really should be about ARF Warbirds or it's going to be covered by the RCU rules about posts that are off topic. For example:
Old 10-13-2011, 07:38 PM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Loopman and I may have had a difference of opinion in the thread that got locked but I have to agree it is ludicrous for a mod to say something like ''it was a shame that we were discussing ARF's in the Warbirds forum".

By moderator.........
That's explained in the post above. Sorry for not writing up a longer sentence but I figured the couple of paragraphs would cover all the reasons.
Old 10-13-2011, 07:39 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

I've found that ARF availability has been a trememdous boon to me.

The H9 60 size warbird line has made it possible for me to have my own WWII airforce. Assembling my Thunderbolt, Corsair, Spitfire, and Hellcat took about as long as drawing the plans for one of them would have taken. I no longer have the room to build from scratch but have a huge desire for dem' birds.

Now I no longer have room for any more. lol..........
Old 10-13-2011, 09:06 PM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

If it is an ARF warbird then yes it would be in the right location, there are tons of great threads in the warbirds category that are ARF's, some of my favorites are close to 100 pages long. Lately there have been some really cool offerings and I hope sooner than later that they will offer more scale ARF's such as the SisT and Comp ARF
Old 10-13-2011, 09:14 PM
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Ramstein44
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

dvs1, aren't you building the SIST Anton? Do you consider it an ARF considering the effort that goes into it?I called it an Arf once and was attacked by a bunch of wild animals..lol
Old 10-13-2011, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Why yes Rammstein I am . Funny you should ask that. It is kinda a loaded question. Whether to call it a kit or ARF hmmmm.......... Having built both I would probably put it in the ARF category but as you said there is so much effort and time that goes in it that it is kinda in a class by itself. It does have all the parts preassembled like an ARF but you still have to do little things like fitting, installing formers, cutting, check fitting again, ect ect. Then there is the painting which takes hours in itself. I have between 60-80 hours in mine already and Still have much painting and electronics installation ahead. Whereas most of my "normal" ARF's take 10-20 hours tops. I guess it really depends on the persons mindset.

But to answer your question in a sentence. I would say yes it is an ARF

Now hopefully I don't get attacked
Old 10-13-2011, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

I am doing repairs on my Sist D9 right now. I would say it is a CARF ; "Close to Almost Ready to Fly".

Or maybe: Outside ARF, Inside NARF ; Stefan buildt the outside; You must build the inside.
Old 10-13-2011, 11:31 PM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

I always considered arfs to be something recognizable right out of the box with nothing more then to install the parts. My SIST took months to build.. All that cutting off parts just to cut other parts to fit took a toll on me. I recently sold my last Dora kit from SIST as I had an alergic reaction to the fiberglass dust!

I have to agree with Kwik on it a CARF.. Until it comes like most arfs all painted up ready for linkages and such, that beauty is at least to me, closer to being a kit.. A really nice time saving one.

By the way Dvs1, beautiful job on the Anton. I recently purchased the black horse models fw190A with then70 inch wingspan. She'll be flipped for sure! Still need to maiden my ESM Dora.. The weather and the flu has been a burden![:'(].
Old 10-14-2011, 02:25 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

As a Contest Director that regularly host War Bird events at our Club here in Tampa Bay, my answer is: Yes. My reasoning is that a Warbird event is basically a fun fly. From a CD's point of few, I want to get as many pilots flying(most money coming in the gate) and attending as possible. I even allow foamies in my War Bird events. This is all to entertain the general public that helps pay for the event and prizes. We (our Club) gave about $500 worth of prizes that were bought by the Club, plus some minor gifts from local sponsers, that weren't anything but basically gift certificates. And to me, gift certificates aren't worth anything, due to maybe the winner doesn't shop at that store. I just hosted one two weeks ago, and due to extremely high cross winds, I only had 4 registered pilots, and two were foamies, and I am glad that they flew to entertain the general public. Normally, our event brings in at around 25 pilots. Financially, we broke even, even though we only had 4 registered pilots, due to gate and food sales. Even though there are plaques given out, it truly isn't a contest. If you want a true War Bird contest, then throw a scale event. Even Tiano is making concessions to allow ARFS, due to the economics of throwing an event.
Old 10-14-2011, 02:44 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Its really simple , considering we are all adults and appear to be all men , I will keep this clean and prove that its really not even a discussion that is needed .
If the all guys in this thread were out having some beers , we see 5 good looking women .
All drop dead knowkouts , assume for the sake of this post we are all single and they all have interest in us .
Unfortunitly three out of the five women are surgically enhanced into goddess like figures and two are natural yet they are all women by the pure definition of a women in great appearance.
So recapping for those of you that take the little yellow bus to RCU , 5 women , all good looking , all have interest in me and my 4 buddies , 3 enhanced (in essence ARFs) and 2 natural (kit build) but all women ..... would it matter ?
If its a warbird , and its an arf , the subject of warbird is the first topic , the reason for posting is the second (ex-bash , tweek , problem ) and the fact that its an arf is thrid
Old 10-14-2011, 03:06 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?


ORIGINAL: LDM

.
If the all guys in this thread were out having some beers , we see 5 good looking women .
All drop dead knowkouts
Unfortunitly three out of the five women are surgically enhanced into goddess like figures and two are natural yet they are all women by the pure definition of a women in great appearance.
So recapping for those of you that take the little yellow bus to RCU , 5 women , all good looking , all have interest in me and my 4 buddies , 3 enhanced (in essence ARFs) and 2 natural (kit build) but all women ..... would it matter ?
Yes, because not all of us do women!
Old 10-14-2011, 03:29 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Loopman needs to change to decafinated stuff!

This is a lot like an old agenda I remember back in the hot rod days of the old schoolers bashing this crazy and stupid new invention called Electronic Fuel Injection. Those old pfarts just WOULDN'T succumb to the idea that any engine would ever be the same without this huge 850cfm trash can sitting on top of it spurting gallons of lousy mixed gas into the intake.

If indeed there is a "god" of the dictatorship of Warbird Classification, let him strike his democratic lightning rod on this subject and have Warbirds classified as "Scratch" and "ARF". Simple enough.(NO, I'm NOT GOING TO THE KENNEL WITHTHE JOKE ABOUT THE DOGSCRATCHING HIS*&% AND ARF-ING AT THE OTHER DOGS)

A warbird is a warbird people. You can't desecrate the incredible look they have managed to incorporate into the ARF covering these days. It's not the hundreds of hours a scratch builder puts into dotting thousands of rivets on his hand painted kit, but you have to admit, they have made miracles out of monokote!

If it comes down to a judging, make two classes, two sets of trophies. The question was, is an ARF still a Warbird. You betcha! Is it a kit build, absolutely not. Does EACH pilot have the same right to enjoy their aircraft to no end and be proud of it's representation of such a historical era in war aviation, you're damned toot'n it does!
Old 10-14-2011, 03:33 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Reading sevreal of the messages above and others like it I think the issue of "Do ARF's belong in Warbirds?" is in the definition of an ARF. It is a term that is relatively undefined and is mostly used by manufacturers, distributors, retailers to capture the attention of modelers in my opinion. The use of the term is all over the map and now has little meaning except in the opinion of the modeler. And to complicate things even more, if a modeler spends months and thousands of dollars modifying one making custom modifications what are you asking? Is the original thing that came out of the box an ARF or is the finished product an ARF?

I think the terminology of ARF has become difficult to define and will continue to blur as more companies develop new methods to assist the modeler in building not only the model they want but the version of the model they want. This is particularly important for warbirds in my opinion because there were so many variants and field modifications for the planes we love to fly. My guess is the warbird community will continue to attempt to define what an ARF is or is not for a very long time because the term ARF is largely undefined clearly in the marketplace. We have already seen several examples of guys trying to define an ARF in the previous messages.

"Do ARF's belong in Warbirds?"....the question is worded awkwardly as I stated above. Do you mean "Should warbirds be almost ready to fly?"
Old 10-14-2011, 03:48 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

if ARF represents a warbird why not?
Old 10-14-2011, 03:57 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

This is a VSQ. (Very Silly Question). Warbirds are models build from scratch, from a kit, using a fiberglass fuse and built up wings (like some Ziroli), using all composite fuselage, tail and wings, ARC, ARF, or if I order one built by a builder (it's still an ARF for me....). The word defines clearly an airplane from a certain era, nothing else... So, if it is a P-51 or a Nieuport 17, it is a warbird, clear as water.

Gerry
Old 10-14-2011, 04:29 AM
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

I think the argument ARF vs built model, gas vs electric, and Futaba vs Specturm has run for too long. We need to add complexity to the arguments.

Is a scratch built warbird model, gas powered, with a Futaba radio better then an ARF electric warbird, controlled by a Specturm radio w/18 receivers and 4 batteries? Or something along those lines:-)

Gerry

Old 10-14-2011, 04:29 AM
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Loopman
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Default RE: Do ARF's Belong in Warbirds?

Too bad there's not a spell check function on RCU! I like the idea of going out with 4 of you and running into 5 beautiful women though, but that would leave 4 of you lonely! To the one ramrod who made the comment about my caffeine addiction, just let me say that is true and I am seeking help. It's a horrible thing, almost as bad as being addicted to CA, Balsa Dust and Epoxy. Now back to the discussion... I believe that while some ARF companies produce what they think are warbirds, some are pushing the envelope of believability. They definitely should leave the pre-applied graphics off! Most of the time these are so wrong in type and color that they detract from an otherwise acceptable airframe. Some companies push the release of a certain type of warbird to the point that the QC goes out the window, and by this I mean issues with glue joints and placements of bulkheads, formers and the structural sufficiency of the FRP.

Happy Flying! (Must Drink More Java)

Loopman

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