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American Eagle B-17 Build

Old 10-29-2011, 10:39 AM
  #1  
speedbrake
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Default American Eagle B-17 Build

I just recently moved from Germany to Bahrain. I've built models at each of our duty locations in the past and then had them returned home. In all the years I've never had a model seriously damaged in shipment...in fact they all have returned with little or no damage. At this location, I decided to build an American Eagle B-17. I followed Terry's thread and found his building talents a good read. I hope he returns to the project soon. Anyway, I'll spend the next two years, if necesary, building my Fortress and will share the experience with you. The kit survived the shipment from Georgia to this location. I'll have very little supplies available in this country so will need to order from the states when necessary...which will be often.

I had a bad experience with another B-17 project...it was way over weight. I plan to make this project as light as I possibly can. It will be powered with OS .81 four strokes. The stab will be permanently glued on to save weight behind the CG. All servos will be located near the CG as well. The tail wheel will be non retracting. I plan to have a three piece wing....having the outboard portions of the wing (beyond the outer nacelles) removeable for storage and transporting. I want the model to always rest on the main gear. My previous one needed a cradle for the fuselage, and I found that to be difficult to transport and store. It had a one piece wing and that was a nightmare.

That is the plan. I'm sure there will be some changes as I go...but I'll attempt to keep it as light as possible.

Here are some pictures of my building room and the various kit parts scattered about. I'm still unpacking boxes but should be ready to begin in a couple of days.

Keith
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Keith,

First off, Thank you for your service. I'm looking forward to following your progress with your B-17. The Flying Fortress is my favorite WW2 plane of all.

David
Old 10-29-2011, 05:00 PM
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P47flyer
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

I also have this kit. This may prompt me to get started. Saito 72's Have retracts. Looking forward to your build!!

Dave H
Old 10-31-2011, 05:25 AM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

I did an inventory of all the parts and pieces to make sure they are there and they fit each other. There are four wing foam pieces and they all fit each other perfectly. The inboard pieces fit the fuselage wing saddle perfectly as well. The nacelles fit the inboard wing pieces nicely but there might be a problem after the foam pieces are sheeted and glassed. The nacelles will be a tight fit.
The stab foam pieces fit the fuselage well. However, the stab extensions on the rear fuselage are a bit concave. There isn't enought glass material to sand them straight..so the fix will be to sand the stab ends to match the fuselage stab extensions. There are cut outs for the inner nacelles but not the outer. There are front and rear spar cut outs on the inner panels but not the outer panels. The cut outs for the inner nacelles are a bit wide....the top of the nacelle does not quite cover the cut out. I'll just not cut away the balsa sheeting in those areas. I think all the items mentioned are easily fixable...just a bit of prior planning and extra patience required.

The instructions provided with the kit are a bit sparse. But I think they provide enough information to build the plane. There are four plan sheets showing some detail in critical areas. Written instructions are provided but they are pretty much generic....expressing ideas for most of the American Eagle kits. I plan to duplicate the plane my Dad flew in WW11. He flew with the 100th Bomb Group, 349 squadron. The model will be all silver. I have the engines and the Robart retracts. Not sure if I'll stick with the Robarts or not. I want the Likes Line retracts...and if Mama buys them for Xmas I'm in business! The Likes Line retracts will provide more space for the inner nacelle fuel tanks. The rudder hinge line is not scale and is hinged in four places. I'm thinking about building up all the control surfaces...not sure if that is lighter or not. I'll build the rudder as recommended and complare the weight with a built up rudder. I'm thinking about using scale hinging locations...more to come on that. I read somewhere to increase the flap area to improve slow speed performance...another thing to research.

Next I will determine the materials I will need and place an order. Meanwhile I'll wash the fuselage and cut out all the openings and work on the tail wheel installation.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:54 PM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

The plan sheets shows one drawing of the main wheel and says that is the desired location of the wheel inside the nacelle in the retracted (up) position. So I made a simple jig for the retract to get a sense of its size and mounting requirements. I guess it isn't a surprise the retract and wheel assembly takes up a lot space inside the nacelle....leaving little space for the fuel tank and throttle servo. In contrast, the drawings for the Likes Line retract shows it will use less space. I really like the Robart retracts because they are more scale looking and functioning. The kit manufacturer pushes the Likes Line retract system. The photos show the retract next to the inner nacelle. The mark on the nacelle is the suggested forward most edge of the main wheel. Not sure where the CG is located on the nacelle...need to do some drawing to get a feel of how far forward the axle is from the CG.

The flaps on a full size B-17 are as long as the entire inner wing panel. I'll extend my flaps two inches and mount them with a wire hinge. The directions suggest an external hinge...might be functional but not very good looking.

Made the balsa order...so should have some balsa in a couple of weeks. I have enough stuff to work on little things in the meantime. Still warm here...high eighties.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:09 AM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

I was ready to proceed with joining the fuselage pieces when I noticed in BOLD PRINT not to use polyester based epoxies on the fiberglass parts. The kit manufacturer used the West System Epoxy resin to lay up the fuaselage and other fiberglass parts. He warns against using polyester epoxy glues. I guess the polyester epoxies won't adhere to the fuselage. The instructions say to use Hobbypoxy II and III glues; but those products have long since gone MIA. Anyway, I found some West System epoxy on the Discount Marine Supplies.com web site. It can be purchased in 4oz. bottles or by the pint, quart or gallon quantities. Also, I found it difficult to find blade type wing joiners. Found some at www.sigmfg.com. They sell both small (40 to 60 size planes) and large sizes (1/4 and 1/3 scale size).

So....the project waits for the epoxy glue. I'm sure there will be many more show stoppers in the future. In the past, I found it more convenient to work on multiple projects to stay busy.

Keith
Old 11-04-2011, 03:42 AM
  #7  
butlern
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Giant Scale Twins also offers aluminum wing joiners for large models:

http://giantscaletwins.com/accessories.htm

I have them installed in one of their F7F Tigercat kits.
Old 11-04-2011, 04:55 AM
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Edwin
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Subscribed.
Edwin
Old 11-04-2011, 05:47 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

If was building this I would wait am join the fusei permanently after I had the tail wheel , rudder and elevator all set up.
I think you would find this makes it a lot easier. Put the fuse together and place tape on each side of where it is joined. Place marks to make sure alignment is always the same...

Ty
Old 11-04-2011, 09:03 AM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Thanks for the info butlern...I checked out their website. The joiners are very nice. The Sig joiners are $15 per set and will save me $60 total compared to the Giant Scale Twins joiners. The Sig joiners have set screws but not the mounting screws. Wouldn't take much to do it myself.

Wife and I drove around the city of Manama (largest city on Bahrain). We found a boat supply store (lots of rich people with LARGE yachts here) and they had the epoxy resin glue I need. This stuff is bullet proof. It is thick, will not run, and fills voids....... 24 hour cure time. Not sure I'll use it for the nacelles though...I like the idea of using some glass cloth for strength. But for joining simple joints, like the fuselage pieces, fuselage formers, etc. this stuff seems perfect. Will glue anything to anything....well not really...directions say it will not adhere to some gel coat surfaces.

Keith
Old 11-04-2011, 09:51 AM
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warbirdmustang
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

I have one of these, with the Likes retracts I'm getting ready to start building, so I'm subscribed!
Bryan
Old 11-04-2011, 11:33 AM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Ty.....I agree with you. But there are some things with the fuselage I don't like. Not sure if I have a fuselage from an old mold or not but some of the mold lines are barely visible. There is no mold line for the tail wheel location. The waist gun positions are directly across from one another and this is a G model fuselage. The center line on top of the fuselage is fairly straight, but the bottom joint meanders a bit. I will feel more comfortable to glue the fuselage together now and ensure the fin is straight, I can use a laser to ensure the straightness. Once dry, I'll flip it over and use a laser to ensure the tail wheel location is set on center. Another thing: the stab stubs have dihehral. Not sure what to do about that. I could build a full length stab and cut out the stubs. Or...just live with it....have a gull stab! I would be interested in hearing from others with the kit if they noticed the same problems. I'm not writing this to trash the kit but just relating the things that need to be delt with while building the plane.

Keith
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:04 AM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Got the fuselage glued together. I'm really happy with the epoxy resin glue. There are no visible gaps in the joint. The stuff is easy to use and provides a long working time before it starts to dry.

Keith
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:35 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

One of the first things I noticed when unpacking the kit was the fin/rudder hinge line. The B-17 has a uniguely shaped rudder The actual rudder hinge line is raked back about 3 degrees or so. The top portion of the rudder then curves back even further. On the kit, the rudder hinge line is straight. The directions say to add a 1/2 inch piece of balsa to the aft surface of the fin and the rudder will be hinged to that. I'm going to add enough balsa to create a scale looking hinge line and then have a scale looking rudder hinged to that. The photos show what I mean. I still plan to include built up control surfaces but will not use scale hinge points.

Was going to install the tail wheel former but didn't have the needed size plywood. I noticed the addendum sheet shows a larger tail wheel former.

Keith
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

No wood yet. I did get some glues I ordered. I was able to finish the tail wheel former and install it into the fuselage. Directions say to make the tail wheel axle 2 1/2 inches from the bottom of the fuselage...seems a bit long. I used Z-poxy 30 minute glue for initial glueing and then put a (messy) bead of boat epoxy paste to finish the installation. Hopefully, that joint will never fail. I laminated the 1/2 inch balsa pieces for the fin post and started sawing/grinding/sanding the fuselage openings. I think that will take a week to finish....being careful not to mess up. The fuselage seam line is especially difficult to get smooth. Will be happy to get the wood and start on the stab and wings.

Keith
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:05 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Was able to glue, carve and sand the fin post. I didn't finish sanding...need to wait for some filler and 3/4 oz glass cloth. I'll glass the fin post when I have all the materials. I will make the rudder in the next couple of days...and work out how I'm going to hinge it. I was marking all the fuselage openings, found one missing. The tape on the front of the fuselage marks the location of the missing window. So there are two openings not marked...the tail wheel and the window at the front. Taped off the staggered waist positions.

Keith
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Some of the wood order arrived today. I can start on the inner wing cores by gluing on the 1/4 X 1/2 basswood spars. I have the 3/32 sheeting but no core bond yet. I'm about finished with the fuselage openings, just the tail gun position to go. I will leave that until the rudder and stab mounting is finalized. There is a product called Icing which is supposed to be a pretty good filler. Tried to order some but they won't ship overseas. I guess it is time to enlist the help of a friend and have some mailed over.

Thought about making the crew hatch door (lower left front fuselage) my battery switch and retract air filler location. It seems perfect...really can't see it from above but easily reached from the front of the fuselage. Also thought about mounting the top and ball turrets without creating two large holes in the fuselage. The ball turret location is on the front and rear fuselage overlap....doesn't make sense to me to weaken that joint. Any ideas out there?

Keith
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

I have used Icing on an American Eagle Spitfire fiberglass fuselage to fill pin holes. It works really well. It is a polyester though. It has been mentioned before about being careful with the type of glue to use with polyester, but I can never remember the rule. I didn't glue to it. It sets up very quickly and sands easily. The working life is not long. Mix a very very small batch the first time to get a feel for it. I purchased mine at a local auto paint supplier here in Nashville that sells to the public. You might just google to see if there is a supplier in your area.
Old 11-16-2011, 09:42 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Is anyone having any luck getting hold of Bob Sealy at Quality Fiberglass(aka American Eagle)? I have been trying for some time now, he owes me some clear plastic parts for my 17 and also for a B25 kit I bought from him a few months ago, but I can't seem to reach him or get a return phone call. Hope all is well with him.
Thanks,
Bryan
Old 11-16-2011, 10:29 AM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

I was going though the pictures currently on my camera and came across these pictures of my other B-17 project. It is a profile B-17 with four OS .15s. I had this wild idea I could make a hovering B-17. I really doubt it will hover but should be fun to fly none the less. Another project that needs to be finished when I return next summer. Has a 70 inch span.

deatonbt...I read that the stuff is good. My son is coming over for Christmas so hopefully he can bring some with him. Did you like the Spitfire Kit?

warbirdmustang.......the B-17 stab cores were crushed in shipment.....they just replaced them last month. I'll look for an adress for you.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:47 AM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

I liked the Spitfire kit, but it is more of a sport plane that happens to look like a Spitfire. The glass work was good, but there were a few pin holes. It is incredibly easy to build and fly. The airfoil gets flat toward the tip, and there is a lot of washout that can be seen by the naked eye. I made two mistakes though; it was my first fiberglass fuselage. I should have done most of the body work to get it into primer before putting in the firewall and servo mounts. I had to be careful to not sand through the hard points where I had glued them. The second mistake that I made was to use 3M spray adhesive on the foam wing. It was the first time that I had used it, and it did not adhere very well. The sheeting lifted at the trailing edge. I brushed in some Titebond, and it has held. I should have stuck with brush on contact cement or Gorilla glue as I have used in the past. But... Ihave just sheeted a foam wing for the first time with Titebond as used by a forum member in another thread. It is the easiest and cleanest way yet and works well. The balsa is not going to separate from the foam. Time will tell.

-Brian
Old 11-16-2011, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Speedbrake,
I have his address, as I actually went to his house and got the stuff I have. I have been waiting on the other parts for a couple of months now at least, and haven't been able to reach Bob for at least a couple of weeks or more. Just wanted to see if anyone else had been in contact with him.
Thanks!
Bryan
Old 11-18-2011, 09:28 AM
  #23  
speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Started working on the inner wing cores. The inner nacelle cut outs are done for you, the outer cut outs you need to do. The nacelles are twelve inches apart, on center line. The wing has six degrees of dihedral...so the nacelle cut outs are cut at six degrees so they are vertical when the wing is joined. The inner nacelle cut outs are lined with 1/8 plywood; this area will support the landing gear. The outer nacelle cut outs are lined with 1/8 balsa. I made the outer nacelle cut outs three inches wide so I could install a 16 oz. tank. The bass wood spars are then epoxied in place. A plywood piece will be epoxied to the back of each cut out. A one inch hole will be made to provide access to the servo lead channel in the wing, located behind the front spars. I'm waiting for the wing joiners to arrive, they will be next.

Keith
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:46 AM
  #24  
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Looking great, and it has me wanting to start on mine! I got hold of Bob Sealy, apparently he had a run in with a table saw and cut some fingers. He is supposed to be shipping the rest of my parts on Monday! I can't wait to build this ship!
Bryan
Old 11-19-2011, 02:37 AM
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speedbrake
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Default RE: American Eagle B-17 Build

Ouch! Hope Bob is OK.

Finished up with the nacelle cut outs. I'll work on the wing joiners when I receive them. Once the joiners are done I'll sheet the four wing cores. After that I'll work out the details for the flaps and ailerons then the mounts for the servos. I'll join the inner wing pieces after that then mate the wing to the fuselage. Then it'll be time to glass the wing panels. I won't be able to work on mounting the stab untill the wing is mated to the fuselage.

A helpful hint: save the foam pieces from the nacelle cut outs and use them as wedges to keep the siding material flat against the sides while gluing. I tried using tape but it won't stick to the foam.

I'm off to check mail at the base.

Keith
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