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Hangar 9 60cc Corsair

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Hangar 9 60cc Corsair

Old 10-24-2014, 11:20 AM
  #1151  
trickpony4
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Originally Posted by BobH View Post
So you end up with about 2k for a 30cc engine. Does that make any sense?
This is an 84cc engine.
Old 10-24-2014, 11:21 AM
  #1152  
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Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro View Post
Zeeb what does Ray charge to do the update on that Saito?
This is what I got from Ray when I asked him...

I charge $500.00 to base line test the new engine, strip down and test all
components, modify connecting rod with special bushing, micro finish
crankshaft, modify rear intake housing and provide new front intake housing
with modified port design, supply gasket set, fully assemble and test run
with report. If you need an exhaust ring I keep the KELEO FG84 and FG33
units in stock and sell them at the same price as KELEO installed and
without the freight ($195.00 for FG84 &$150.00 for FG33 with the adapter
nuts). If you send me the rear cover, crankshaft and con rod. I will provide
the necessary parts and modifications for $375.00. I also offer a service to drill and tap the drive hub for 5mm bolts with a six bolt DA pattern and supply a special propeller retaining washer and six high grade bolts for $35.00. Current lead time is 8 weeks !

All prices are plus freight I only charge the exact postage it costs me.

Thanks for the enquiry

Ray English
2475 Simons Court
Carson City
Nevada 89703
USA
(775) 771-0824
ozpilot4@aol.com
Old 10-24-2014, 11:39 AM
  #1153  
BobH
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I think? its the same charge for any of the engines. FG33 and the FG84.
And of course some things should make sense. There's a lot of *****ing about Saito not wanting to change their design per Ray's modifications.
That's understandable if the Stock engines don't perform as advertised. Or worse yet they fail in flight.
Old 10-24-2014, 05:35 PM
  #1154  
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Originally Posted by BobH View Post
So you end up with about 2k for a 30cc engine. Does that make any sense?
Bob, its a 84 cc Radial Engine!!!
Old 10-24-2014, 06:55 PM
  #1155  
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Would you guys recommend going with this 84cc Saito? There's also the FG60R3 I can get ahold of but not sure if that's enough power for this plane at ~30+lbs. I like a bit extra power on tap for all of my planes 'just in case' for the most part. I'm having a very hard time deciding between this and a Top Flite 85" P-47D.

Also does anyone have the measurement of the maximum height with the gear retracted on this plane? Specifically the heigh of the rudder. Want to make sure it all fits in the back of my vehicle which could be a deal breaker I'm crossing my fingers I won't have an issue with.
Old 10-24-2014, 07:24 PM
  #1156  
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Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
It's $500.00 to do the intake mods, $200.00 more if you want the Keleo exhaust ring and another $35.00 if you want the drive hub modified for six socket head screws in a DA-100 pattern. If you look at the pic I posted, you can see mine has had this modification done as well. While others may disagree, I am NOT a fan of the single center bolt for the prop. I fought that design on one of my little glow engines, a YS-110 and it was always a pain in the butt. I've never had such problems with my ZDZ's or my DA's....
Thank you! Finally I get a straight answer on this one. I tried asking Ray but no reply or whatever.

Sounds like some work ahead of time and sending him the parts to mod will be the most affordable way to go plus you learn more about the engine.

Lol, yeah $2K+ for a nice engine is the going rate these days... See also Kolm, Moki, Roto. I have an AMT Olympus thats been updated by AMT Netherlands, care to guess what that baby costs?
Old 10-24-2014, 07:29 PM
  #1157  
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Originally Posted by chorner View Post
Would you guys recommend going with this 84cc Saito? There's also the FG60R3 I can get ahold of but not sure if that's enough power for this plane at ~30+lbs. I like a bit extra power on tap for all of my planes 'just in case' for the most part. I'm having a very hard time deciding between this and a Top Flite 85" P-47D.

Also does anyone have the measurement of the maximum height with the gear retracted on this plane? Specifically the heigh of the rudder. Want to make sure it all fits in the back of my vehicle which could be a deal breaker I'm crossing my fingers I won't have an issue with.
Watch the videos on the engine mod closely to see the difference this work does. Saito must have been thinking of something else when they released this engine as is. Since this is the only engine of its kind and perfect for many warbirds you dont have much of a choice and Saito could have done much better.
So far I have not read of any negative side effects after the mod. I want one for my future SisT FW 190 build!
Old 10-24-2014, 10:21 PM
  #1158  
BobH
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Yo guys I have three Radial engines I get the cost thing.. ..
Just a shame to pay for an engine once and then pay again to get it to run correctly.
Old 10-24-2014, 11:20 PM
  #1159  
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Originally Posted by BobH View Post
Yo guys I have three Radial engines I get the cost thing.. ..
Just a shame to pay for an engine once and then pay again to get it to run correctly.
Yep its lame. Same for retracts and aircraft that should have been done right the first time. I have a Moki 250 and its bone stock, runs fine. But then theyre saying you need to run this fuel pump and that ignition module, etc. Runs fine stock, like the FG84, but Ive yet to see mine need any mods. The FG on the other hand needs the mods unfortunately from what Ive read and understood.
I think Saito should suck it up and update the engine plus offer the update for free to owners of stock engines. (Not holding my breath)
Old 10-24-2014, 11:26 PM
  #1160  
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Originally Posted by BobH View Post
Just a shame to pay for an engine once and then pay again to get it to run correctly.
Yes, especially when it isnt neccessary.

Here is my FG-33; No modifications;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTpy...cfjQKyisx5bArw

Here is my FG-84; No modifications;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cph9HMFfQqE

Last edited by kwik; 10-25-2014 at 12:37 AM.
Old 10-25-2014, 12:49 AM
  #1161  
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I guess I ended up being the owner of the first FG-84 engine that Ray modified, in a H9 Corsair I bought from Fred. I have run the engine a few times so far, but have not maidened the plane since I bought it. I am taking it out today to do a shakedown on everything, but still won't be flying it. I have telemetry for four points of temperature monitoring, the three cylinders and the Keleo exhaust exit. I have a few more changes and checks I need to do to the plane before I maiden it, but should be soon.

Brad and I are going to be test running his new FG-84 engine today also. His was modified by Ray recently and this will be the first run on it. I built it into a TF FW-190 which turned out to be a superb build, top notch equipment. He will not maiden either, just going through the process of getting there.

However, I am very impressed with the engine so far. The sound is worth every penny spent, in my opinion.

Last edited by mirored; 10-25-2014 at 03:24 AM.
Old 10-25-2014, 08:43 AM
  #1162  
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Originally Posted by chorner View Post
Would you guys recommend going with this 84cc Saito? There's also the FG60R3 I can get ahold of but not sure if that's enough power for this plane at ~30+lbs. I like a bit extra power on tap for all of my planes 'just in case' for the most part. I'm having a very hard time deciding between this and a Top Flite 85" P-47D.

Also does anyone have the measurement of the maximum height with the gear retracted on this plane? Specifically the heigh of the rudder. Want to make sure it all fits in the back of my vehicle which could be a deal breaker I'm crossing my fingers I won't have an issue with.
I watched the Horizon team fly their Hangar 9 60cc Corsairs at Warbirds over the Midwest in Fond Du Lac in August 2014 and they were impressive!

Look back on this thread (page 39) and look at the pictures and read the feedback.
The Saito Product Manager had been flying his on stock FG-84 R3 and told me that he has not had any problems.

I have picked up my FG-84 and I'm looking forward to 2015!

Last edited by Fly2XS; 10-25-2014 at 02:04 PM.
Old 10-25-2014, 03:38 PM
  #1163  
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Just flew mine today....Flight number (6) and did it in front of my Club peanut gallery old farts after our club meeting.

Let me state this first. THIS IS ONE EXCITING AND REALISTIC SCALE FLYING CORSAIR

I flew two demo flights, I am flying with a G-62 and most of my demo is flown at 1/2 power, the G-62 pulls this 30lb bird around PLENTY! I have to reduce power on the backside of all loops and 1/2 cubans....she flies very scale at 1/2 power on a G-62. Have no idea why so many think a 85CC motor is necessary....it is not. Most of the Horizon team is flying with G-62's I at least know of two anyway.

The interesting thing and one of the most common comment is that plane flies like it is a "light" airplane and not a 30lb warbird! I had a lot of interest in the plane today and the owner of the local Hobby Shop who is a Horizon dealer said he sold 4 more as of today just on my flight demonstration!

I have noticed that FULL FLAPS really slows her down very well and I am starting to 3 point her more.....seems the main wheel landings she will bounce slightly. If you like to fly scale and are disciplined in your flying and not a jack-azz pilot who whips the plane around like a 3D bird you will love her.

Again super happy with the Airplane, and Horizon/Hangar 9 have an excellent product and product support.
Old 10-25-2014, 04:03 PM
  #1164  
Zeeb
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Originally Posted by CaptRKO View Post
Have no idea why so many think a 85CC motor is necessary....it is not. Most of the Horizon team is flying with G-62's I at least know of two anyway.
Well we each have our own preferences and for me, not only were the performance numbers vastly improved on the modified engine, but it SOUNDS so damn cool you cannot believe it....

As for the Horizon guys; Pete Goldsmith has the FG84-3 Saito in his.....
Old 10-25-2014, 05:43 PM
  #1165  
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Nutting wrong with each mans choice of engine! Just pointing out a G-62 does the job very well.

Here is a video of me flying the Hangar 9 Corsair 60CC....with a G-62.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=2&theater
Old 10-25-2014, 06:39 PM
  #1166  
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Of course the factory rep would say there are no problems...

When the cylinder temps are not even and there is no main bearing I'd say there is a fundamental design issue.
Does the engine run? yes
Could it be better? yes
Is there anything to gain from the modifications? yes
Should the engine have been designed and manufactured like the mods suggest? yes
Why?
1) Even cylinder temps = efficiency and performance
2) Main bearing = more RPM - reliably
3) Cost impact to production = minimal if not cheaper due to less aluminum used and simplified intake plentum means less machining time plus addition of SAE brass bushing.
4) bottom line = more performance than the stock engine with mods that should be standard production spec.

Unfortunately this the only engine in this class so you have to make the decision to buy it, stock or mod it.
Old 10-26-2014, 12:00 AM
  #1167  
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Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro View Post
Unfortunately this the only engine in this class so you have to make the decision to buy it, stock or mod it.
Exactly; This is the only engine in this class.

And the 450 has been running for years without a bearing.
Old 10-27-2014, 07:24 AM
  #1168  
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Thanks for the reply guys. My Corsair is arriving this coming Thursday; excited is an understatement! haha Still for the life of me cannot decide on an engine for this however...

I'm also considering the Evolution 7-77 radial, or the newest Saito FG60R3. I like to fly scale and have no interest at all in '3D' (I think it's pretty stupid personally - so that gives you a bit of "background"), but certainly would like a bit of a spirited flight and have a good amount of engine for your usual maneuvers like Cuban 8's etc and large loops.

Will either of those two engines (EVO 7-77) and potentially the new Saito FG60R3? I know people have little experience with the FG60 at this point, but hoping someone has some info. on its capabilities.
Old 10-27-2014, 10:33 AM
  #1169  
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Hi All.

I hope that all your builds are going well.............I'm way behind in finishing mine off !!! Interesting to read the posts about the engine choices...
.
I am using the Evo 7-77 on my build,I have now converted it to CDi ( using glow fuel ), with the conversion package as supplied by Adrian at CH ignitions.( I have now had the 7-77 for about 18 months and have religiously used the "after-run" method of corrosion protection as advised by reading "Maxims" posts on "Care of Evolution Radials etc" on RC Universe...a must to read if your into Evo Radials !!!

So far very pleased with the results,and there appears to be plenty of power ( ground runs so far !!) to swing the Biela 22" x 12 3BL,plus she starts easily after a good prime by hand.

I know that there are a few Corsairs out there now flying on the 7-77 with CH Ignitions conversion...this is the link for one of my test stand runs ( sorry for the poor quality )

www.youtube.com/watch?v=phvYr-kYAfo

Regards...............Nick UK.

Last edited by njmheli; 10-27-2014 at 10:36 AM.
Old 10-27-2014, 12:12 PM
  #1170  
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Originally Posted by njmheli View Post
Hi All.

I hope that all your builds are going well.............I'm way behind in finishing mine off !!! Interesting to read the posts about the engine choices...
.
I am using the Evo 7-77 on my build,I have now converted it to CDi ( using glow fuel ), with the conversion package as supplied by Adrian at CH ignitions.( I have now had the 7-77 for about 18 months and have religiously used the "after-run" method of corrosion protection as advised by reading "Maxims" posts on "Care of Evolution Radials etc" on RC Universe...a must to read if your into Evo Radials !!!

So far very pleased with the results,and there appears to be plenty of power ( ground runs so far !!) to swing the Biela 22" x 12 3BL,plus she starts easily after a good prime by hand.

I know that there are a few Corsairs out there now flying on the 7-77 with CH Ignitions conversion...this is the link for one of my test stand runs ( sorry for the poor quality )

www.youtube.com/watch?v=phvYr-kYAfo

Regards...............Nick UK.
Has the CH ignitions conversion really made a difference outside of being a little 'friendlier' to operate? I contacted Adrian, not 100% sure it's worth the $500 for the modification myself, versus just grabbing McDaniels onboard glow and tuning the engine correctly. I wonder what the fuel consumption is like... and how big is the stock tank? (don't know yet, mine comes Thurs!)
Old 10-27-2014, 03:26 PM
  #1171  
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Hi.

There has been alot said on this build thread about petrol vs nitro fuel (glow fuel ),I'm pretty sure that most will agree that more power is produced from a glow fuel engine than a petrol engine of the same capacity.Plenty of threads to read with regard to this and each can make up their own minds and choose which option they are happy to go with.

Don't want to open any further debates on this here !!!!!

From my point of view,I can see why the CDi conversion ( still fueled with glow fuel ),will produce a little more power and economy..............more precise ignition timing,hence a more fuel efficient / power "burn" of the cycle etc.......from my own "runnings with the 7-77,on glow fuel and glow plugs,using a 22" x 10 3BL Biela I was able to get approx 5500rpm on the ground...........when using the 22" x 12 3BL Biela on the glow plug,glow fuel,I was finding it hard to get over 4900rpm on the ground.

My few runs so far on the 7-77 with CDi ( still on the rich side at top end ),using the 22" x 12 3BL Biela,I am at approx 5300rpm on the ground..........the fuel blend is with 5%nitro added and appears to be able to give a little more. ( quite clean running as the Evo 7-77 can run on 50% less oil in the fuel mix as compaired to say the OS / Saito 4 strokes.....)

One of the mods that Ray does on the FG 84 appears to be a similar fuel mixture intake from the crankcase to the cylinders as per the Evo has.........

The stock tank with the H9 60cc Corsair is marked as 650 cc ( 22 oz )................should be plenty for some good flights.....my tank came already plumbed up for petrol,guess that is the same for all the "kits".

I bought the McDaniel / Sonic Tronics glow drive ( quite costly aswell here in the UK ).............great bit of kit though,but as said,so far very happy with the CDi from CH Ignitions.

Regards....................Nick (UK).
Old 10-28-2014, 10:03 AM
  #1172  
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Ever wonder what holding full up elevator from taxi through the entire flight would do? This video will answer that for you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw3-Wr_bz8k
Old 10-28-2014, 10:17 AM
  #1173  
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Ouch!

That hurt to watch. Anyone need a translation? I read this whole thread since I love Corsairs and this is clearly the coolest ARF of one ever. I wonder if H9 would ever do an ARC version? I just can't bring myself to pull the trigger on a $4k warbird (by the time you're done with it) that's covered in iron-on.
Old 10-28-2014, 10:24 AM
  #1174  
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Originally Posted by YellowAircraft View Post
Ouch!

That hurt to watch. Anyone need a translation? I read this whole thread since I love Corsairs and this is clearly the coolest ARF of one ever. I wonder if H9 would ever do an ARC version? I just can't bring myself to pull the trigger on a $4k warbird (by the time you're done with it) that's covered in iron-on.
There is no doubt that the designer did a terrific job in developing this airframe!
I don't know about you, but I'm stripping mine and plan to finish it in glass & paint.
An ARF kit-bash is just what it needs!
Old 10-28-2014, 10:57 AM
  #1175  
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Ordered the Corsair on Monday and it will arrive tomorrow. I will be installing the FG-84 in mine. I'm leaning towards the Sierra retracts.

The first thing I will do to my Corsair is strip the covering off and glass it. I will cover it in Flite Metal before painting it. Flite Metal will weigh about the same as primer but will allow me to simulate the spot welds on the fuse and the rivets and screws on the wing. This will be my winter project and I'll post photos as I go along.

Kirk

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