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Which Hysol and Where

Old 07-09-2013, 09:59 AM
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splais
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Default Which Hysol and Where

I need to glue a 14" cowl ring in a cowl. It's a ring without support other than the ring which is 1/8" ply. I've heard that Hysol is a stronger epoxy than the stuff you get at Tower. When I started looking for it, found there are several Hysols available.

Can anyone steer me to the one I want and a source. thanks, Steve
Old 07-09-2013, 10:10 AM
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raptureboy
 
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Don't have an answer to your question , but I use the Bob Smith brand of epoxy and have great success gluing anything I need glued. Much better the the tower brand which always went south on me before I could use it all up.
Old 07-09-2013, 10:14 AM
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readyturn
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/hysol-c-27_28.html

This link will take you to the product that you need.............
Old 07-09-2013, 11:16 AM
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JSZ
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

9462 is what I use, must set up overnight. McMaster & Carr is the source. Fast shipping. They have Hysol that sets up faster, depending on your application
Old 07-09-2013, 11:49 AM
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CK1
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where


ORIGINAL: readyturn

http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/hysol-c-27_28.html

This link will take you to the product that you need.............
+1
Be sure to get the applicator gun and tips . If you have alot to do get the 5 piece 9462 pkg.
It is expensive but I have found nothing better for bonding cowl rings ,formers etc.. to fiberglass (epoxy or resin).
Old 07-09-2013, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

I have used " Permatex" 5 min Plastic Weld. The key ingrediant in " methol-methol-crylate " not sure if spelled right.
Hysol also uses this ingrediant. The Permatex is much less costly and easy to get. It has worked well for me on plywood to fiberglass bonding. The hysol may be a higher quality product?

Tom
Old 07-09-2013, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Here you go, follow the link and read the specs on Hysol. McMaster-Carr has the gun and mixing tips but having used this epoxy for years I suggest you mix by hand because the tips waste a lot of epoxy.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#loctite-hysol/=njuonk

Use 9462 on most assemblies regarding wood and fiberglass typically. Sand a fiberglass location before applying epoxy.
Old 07-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

I agree on hand mixing: I just use a dowel and push out equal amounts, put the twist cap back on and put that in a plastic sandwich bag (mine has stayed usable for over a year).
Around the engine, I also use screws in addition to the glue as, over time, something will come loose when just glue is used (it may take awhile, some after 200 or more flights). I usually use button head wood screws.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:59 PM
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Flyfast1
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Chris and Sam,

Just to be sure I understand, you guys use the gun and the cartridges without the mixing nozzel to dispense an amount that you need and then just mix by hand? The mixer nozzel looks long, so I presume what you are saying is that the nozzle holds a lot of unused material?

Thanks,

-Ed B.
Old 07-09-2013, 04:09 PM
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vertical grimmace
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where


ORIGINAL: Flyfast1

Chris and Sam,

Just to be sure I understand, you guys use the gun and the cartridges without the mixing nozzel to dispense an amount that you need and then just mix by hand? The mixer nozzel looks long, so I presume what you are saying is that the nozzle holds a lot of unused material?

Thanks,

-Ed B.
The mixing nozzle is nice to get into a hard to reach spot or to run a "fillet" around a former or such. It does waste a lot though, so for most uses, mixing by hand is a more frugal way to go. The gun is nice to dispense equal amounts.
Old 07-09-2013, 04:30 PM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

http://www.altecare.com/toolshysol.htm
Old 07-09-2013, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

why not check out the ad at the top of this thread for EPO-GRIP Adhesives?
Old 07-09-2013, 07:46 PM
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Chris Nicastro
 
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where


ORIGINAL: Flyfast1

Chris and Sam,

Just to be sure I understand, you guys use the gun and the cartridges without the mixing nozzel to dispense an amount that you need and then just mix by hand? The mixer nozzel looks long, so I presume what you are saying is that the nozzle holds a lot of unused material?

Thanks,

-Ed B.
Correct, you can use thin sticks from a craft store or tongue depressors to mix, buy a bag of each. Its still pretty easy to make a nice fillet without the nozzles so maybe try both and see.
Old 07-10-2013, 06:50 AM
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SCALECRAFT
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Hysol 1.7oz $15.00

West Systems 610 adhesive 6.4oz $16.00. Very Versatile.

Check it.

Steve
Old 07-11-2013, 04:41 AM
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Zeeb
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Hmmm.....

Guess I'm confused here; guys spend thousands of dollars on a model and mess around with hand mixing Hysol to save a few cents???? I guess if you only need a tiny amount but I don't remember ever doing that, usually I just use epoxy when I only need a small amount of adhesive.

For the OP; McMaster is the most reasonable place to buy the Hysol and they have a large selection of tips including some with an end to attach an 18g IV catheter which the Hysol will flow through. You can get into some really tight places with that setup. For most of my stuff I just use the three inch nozzles. Be aware that there are lots of different types of Hysol with the 9462 probably being the most commonly used for our hobby, however if you read the data sheet, it takes 72 hours at 70 degrees F to completely cure but you can work with it for quite awhile before it starts setting. The E-20HP will cure in about the same time as 30 minute epoxy and you have about the same amount of time to work with the stuff before it starts setting up. Both can be used on verticle applications without running which can be a real advantage in assembling particularly composite models.
Old 07-11-2013, 07:01 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Zeeb,
Hand mixing Hysol ensures the 2 parts are mixed thoroughly. The nozzles, especially the short ones do not mix the glue sufficiently to insure a good bond. I almost lost a jet due to rudder flutter. When I repaired it I found some of the Hysol that I had used a short nozzle to inject into the rudder to mount the control horn was soft and pulled out. I now hand mix all Hysol and have never had any more problems.
Old 07-12-2013, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

For me it really comes down to how you perpare the joint more than the glue used. Before I start a build I wash the fuse out with regular dish soap and a scrub brush to remove the PVA release agent used to mold the parts.

I mark the area to be glued, clean the area with alcohol. I like 99% rubbing alcohol ... rough up with 80 girt and clean again with alcohol

Put the former in place where I need it, I then glue it in with thin CA and try to get it under the wood. Next I mix regular Bob Smith Industries 30 minute epoxy (hobby store stuff) with milled fiber (great planes or BVM) In a small mixing cup. I pour that into a dental syring with the tip cut to about an 1/8 opening. I try and mix the epoxy mixture up until it's like creamy peanut butter, count to 100 while you stir it up.

I make a bead on both sides of the former then use either a gloved finger or a tongue depressor to clean up the joint...

This method makes a super strong joint....

I get the syringes very cheap in lots of 50 off ebay

many ways to skin a cat in this hobby
Old 07-12-2013, 08:49 AM
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fw190
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

There is no PVA inside the fuselage only the outside shell. You just need to sand the inside of the fuselage to make a mechanical bond for your formers. On the outside depends who fabricated the fuselage will have PVA, wax or a release agent that you need to remove so primer will stick to it. Maybe that is what you meant. I just use thicken West System epoxy. West system have additives to thicken the epoxy so it can be used for many types of glue joint needed. And it does not have to be West System any decent 2 parts epoxy will work just as well. Hysol does however make it easy to use right out of the tube.

Some additives

Cabosil (silica) - makes the epoxy stick to cealing without running (does not add strength to epoxy)
Microballons - thickens epoxy but still flows, not a strong bond however easier to sand
chop milled fiber - adds strength to epoxy, thickens it depends how much used, adds weight
Old 07-12-2013, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

From all I've been told and researched
If you are doing a fiberglass lay-up have to spray a layer of PVA over the final coat of resin to avoid have a thin "sticky" layer of resin that will never cure.

I can tell you on yellow aircraft fuse's the inside has something over it... I beleive it's PVA....
I scrubed it all out.... maybe this is not true of all makes?
Old 07-12-2013, 09:15 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

I make glass fuselages and have used PVA in the past, however it is a waste of time for me so I only use wax for releasing fuselage. Whenever you glue to a glass fuselage (epoxy or polyester) its only a mechanical bond so it needs roughing to hold the glue, on the outside release agent needs to be removed and scuffing need for a good bond.

Most YA kits are made with polyester resin, I would not even consider using epoxy joint on it, you can get polyester resin from any hardware store and you can use the same additives I mentioned with it.

So basically you thicken the resin for proper use! This is why Hysol is popular, thicken to be strong and ease of use.
Old 07-12-2013, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

FW190!
Thanks I edited my post, I forgot the most important part of my steps.... after I clean with alcohol I rough it up with 80 girt then clean it again.

Most YA kits are made with polyester resin
I'm building the yellow twin F-18 it's epoxy resin as is the F-16, single F-18, F-22, sting ray, and P-40
I believe the rest are poly
Old 07-12-2013, 09:51 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Here is your poorman's Hysol applicator, if you can get a Hysol gun in the same space this is even easier.


http://images.jamestowndistributors....rge/2096-2.jpg
Old 07-13-2013, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where

Well if you need to get in somewhere tight as I mentioned, here's the solution; the 6" tip with provision for a hypodermic needle and an 18g. needle attached....

Now I have used syringes both with and without needles for epoxy in the past for such things as control horns, but that is a real messy hassle compared to this and if you're not quick the stuff starts setting up in the syringe before you can get it used.

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:39 AM
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where


ORIGINAL: Zeeb

Well if you need to get in somewhere tight as I mentioned, here's the solution; the 6'' tip with provision for a hypodermic needle and an 18g. needle attached....
Wow! The guys that worry about waste with the standard mixing nozzle are going to freak at that!!!
Old 07-13-2013, 12:56 PM
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John Sohm
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Default RE: Which Hysol and Where


ORIGINAL: Ron101

From all I've been told and researched
If you are doing a fiberglass lay-up have to spray a layer of PVA over the final coat of resin to avoid have a thin ''sticky'' layer of resin that will never cure.

I can tell you on yellow aircraft fuse's the inside has something over it... I beleive it's PVA....
I scrubed it all out.... maybe this is not true of all makes?
This may be true if the part was laid up with polyester laminating resin which remains tacky for the next application of resin/cloth. Not true with polyester finishing resin which has an added wax to form a hard surface and prevent exposure to air which leads to the tackiness nor is it true with the epoxy resins. If either of these is used, you need to sand the parts if adding another layer of cloth if the next layer is not added prior to first applications total curing.

For a real good explanation of the different resins and their curing properties, check out the U.S. Composites website. They market several different types of resins: polyester, vinylester and epoxy and all the products used to thin, thicken and cure.

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