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P-51 Mustang Brotherhood

Old 11-29-2021, 05:08 PM
  #1126  
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Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro View Post
The quality is great and the hub totally clamps down on the blades. Just set it and test it then fly it when you get the RPM on the ground you want.

Info from Ramoser says that hooked to a gas engine, max rpm for the vario prop is 6300. I have to assume that's on the ground. Prop rpm increases in flight, Never had a telemetry tach on a plane, but that's what I was told.
Is that accurate?
Old 11-29-2021, 05:17 PM
  #1127  
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Originally Posted by paladin View Post
first off if those are robarts, i've never owned a set but have worked on two, they tend to bend as you use them making them unreliable. now that that is out find three view to place the strut, then once the strut is placed with the wheels down at 0AoA looking down on the wing the wheel axles should be under the l.e. of the wing. i hope this is understandable.

to combat the weakness of the retract frame you need to make the wood mounts as strong as you can.

how do you like the pica carve a p-51 build process? i had a st-3000 then g-62 in mine.

Joe
You still have that plane with the Zenoah?

If you do, can I ask a favor? Like a klunkhead, before I sent my engine off, I forgot to get the measurement from the mount plate to the back of the prop hub so I can't order my stand offs. The Hanger 9, from the mounting box to the cowl opening is 6.25 inches. I just dunno how long the the engine is. Everything I find online includes the hub 😞
(yes, I'm an overzealous idiot, flame away)

nm... figured out Joe and Paladin are one in the same. If you still have one of your G62's, if you'd measure I'd appreciate it.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 11-29-2021 at 06:19 PM.
Old 11-29-2021, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by paladin View Post
i use 12 degrees up and down if i cant find recommendations

Joe
good place to start.
Old 11-29-2021, 11:45 PM
  #1129  
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Originally Posted by Txmustangflyer View Post
Info from Ramoser says that hooked to a gas engine, max rpm for the vario prop is 6300. I have to assume that's on the ground. Prop rpm increases in flight, Never had a telemetry tach on a plane, but that's what I was told.
Is that accurate?
No problem the hub and props are designed specifically for gas engine operation, and brushless power, at this displacement and application. Set the prop for about 4500rpm on the ground/bench and expect it to unload about 1000rpm+ in flight. Then adjust accordingly from there till you get the speed/performance you need.
Old 11-30-2021, 01:07 AM
  #1130  
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Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro View Post
No problem the hub and props are designed specifically for gas engine operation, and brushless power, at this displacement and application. Set the prop for about 4500rpm on the ground/bench and expect it to unload about 1000rpm+ in flight. Then adjust accordingly from there till you get the speed/performance you need.
got it.
So, not 6300 ground, 6300 unloaded. OK.
Old 11-30-2021, 05:58 AM
  #1131  
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i used 40:1 on engine one, 32:1 on 2 and 3 (4oz per gallon), and no alcohol gas (so 91 octane). i also added grape flavor to the gas 6 drops of perfume from jegs made specifically for gas. just fly it and have fun!

Joe
Old 11-30-2021, 07:19 AM
  #1132  
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Originally Posted by paladin View Post
i used 40:1 on engine one, 32:1 on 2 and 3 (4oz per gallon), and no alcohol gas (so 91 octane). i also added grape flavor to the gas 6 drops of perfume from jegs made specifically for gas. just fly it and have fun!

Joe
Your experience with the G62 purely sucks. I don't understand how they were wearing that quickly. I've never ran a zenoah before and won't deny that experience, however they have gained a reputation, not only in rc, but in tools, etc, of being a very reliable engine. There are zenoahs that have gone years without major failure such as what you experienced. I'm not even going to try to hazard a guess as to the why.
I do know that a stock G62, compared to other, more recent engines, is a bit anemic, and heavy. On the flip side, all that extra alloy means it's a good candidate for modification when it comes to carving new shapes at the top of the cylinder.
I stopped counting the companies that modify them for rc boat racing. There's so many top end kits available through those companies it will make your head spin for around 200 bucks. Most are dedicated to the rc marine version and won't do the rc aero.
performance seems to be one of two that do. I chose them as their engine, at one time, was the mandated engine for AT6 class pylon racing in one league or another. It's where they cut their teeth so to speak.
I know that after they are done, it's pretty much a zenoah in appearance. The only thing that stays relatively untouched is the crankshaft, although it goes through a tolerance check, I guess to check the con rod journal and balance I suppose? But nothing much else remains as stock zenoah casting or part. It's either modified, or replaced.
one thing I noticed on mine before sending it in is the crankshaft when turned felt kind of like a ratchet wrench..it was "grabby" at about equal spots. I attribute that to the bearings.
as for the cylinder scarring. I hope I don't have same issue. Time will tell.
Old 11-30-2021, 02:57 PM
  #1133  
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Ok guys.

My Hanger 9 is pretty much headed towards my dream rc mustang.
Towards that end I'm trying to get all the bells and whistles. Everything on the transmitter.
Before now, I've always ran a manual choke, but this time around, it's one of those bells and whistles, the reciever has a channel for it, I want the choke on a switch.
This has led me to a headscratcher. What servo. I've read that a normal servo tends to burn up trying to pull duty as a choke servo. Not what I want to happen. Should I assume that a retract servo would be a better option as, at one end of its throw, it pulls zero power, ie "switched off?"
Old 11-30-2021, 04:21 PM
  #1134  
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Originally Posted by Txmustangflyer View Post
Ok guys.

My Hanger 9 is pretty much headed towards my dream rc mustang.
Towards that end I'm trying to get all the bells and whistles. Everything on the transmitter.
Before now, I've always ran a manual choke, but this time around, it's one of those bells and whistles, the reciever has a channel for it, I want the choke on a switch.
This has led me to a headscratcher. What servo. I've read that a normal servo tends to burn up trying to pull duty as a choke servo. Not what I want to happen. Should I assume that a retract servo would be a better option as, at one end of its throw, it pulls zero power, ie "switched off?"
If set up correctly the servo can last a long time. My TF Corsair has had its choke servo for about 10 years! Make sure there is zero bind and free push pull operation, no buzzing. A standard servo is all you need or even a high torque mini servo can do it. I use two standard HiTech RCD servos and I remove the return spring on the Walbro carb to reduce the force on the TH servo.
Old 11-30-2021, 04:46 PM
  #1135  
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Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro View Post
If set up correctly the servo can last a long time. My TF Corsair has had its choke servo for about 10 years! Make sure there is zero bind and free push pull operation, no buzzing. A standard servo is all you need or even a high torque mini servo can do it. I use two standard HiTech RCD servos and I remove the return spring on the Walbro carb to reduce the force on the TH servo.
ok. Spring goes out the window 😀
Old 12-01-2021, 01:52 PM
  #1136  
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It's looking like, due to servo location, I'll also need to reverse the position of the choke lever.


Old 12-01-2021, 02:45 PM
  #1137  
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ok guys I know that a lot of you have build a lot of ARF's,Kits,Plans and would like to know what plan has been the best flying P-51 and what has it been powered with
there are so many built out there, there has got to be a good flyer out there I've seen so many go in do to pilot error and some are just not that great of a kit excreta
what's everybody's preference ??????????


SG
Old 12-01-2021, 02:48 PM
  #1138  
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Six,

first thing it all depends on how much build experience you have, and how much you want to spend.
Hanger 9 has a 20cc version, smaller ARF, the 60 cc ARF like I'm doing. CARF models has one, ESM used to, then there's zirolli which would be a full build.
First thing you want to decide is what scale.
the one I'm doing is a Hanger 9 1/5th scale ARF using a 50 to 65 cc gas engine but is also an 89 inch wingspan. To put anything bigger would require a huge amount of modifications to the front 1/3rd of the fuselage.
the size kind of defines the power used.
CARF and Zirolli mustangs can use Kolm 3 cylinders I think. The zirolli, being a full build definitely can because you would be building the fuselage, so firewall/engine placement is on you.

So, yeah, first decide if you want 1/4 scale, 1/5th scale, 1/6th scale etc. If you really wanna go nuts, there's probably 1/2 scale planes out there somewhere. Pick, then, unfortunately, Google, because the offerings are so widespread..hard to list them all.
it's a very popular aircraft for the companies to model. Topflite has one, TopRC....lots to choose from.
Mine is the Hanger 9 60cc 1/5th scale. I'm going to power it with a performance unlimited products Zenoah G62, converted to cdi and reed valve induction. Elite retracts, retractable tail wheel, all with scale(ish) doors. Sliding canopy. I hope to be spinning a Romoser 23.5 inch 4 blade vario prop after tuning at, at minimum, 8 degrees pitch.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-01-2021 at 03:02 PM.
Old 12-01-2021, 04:38 PM
  #1139  
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Originally Posted by Txmustangflyer View Post
Six,

first thing it all depends on how much build experience you have, and how much you want to spend.
Hanger 9 has a 20cc version, smaller ARF, the 60 cc ARF like I'm doing. CARF models has one, ESM used to, then there's zirolli which would be a full build.
First thing you want to decide is what scale.
the one I'm doing is a Hanger 9 1/5th scale ARF using a 50 to 65 cc gas engine but is also an 89 inch wingspan. To put anything bigger would require a huge amount of modifications to the front 1/3rd of the fuselage.
the size kind of defines the power used.
CARF and Zirolli mustangs can use Kolm 3 cylinders I think. The zirolli, being a full build definitely can because you would be building the fuselage, so firewall/engine placement is on you.

So, yeah, first decide if you want 1/4 scale, 1/5th scale, 1/6th scale etc. If you really wanna go nuts, there's probably 1/2 scale planes out there somewhere. Pick, then, unfortunately, Google, because the offerings are so widespread..hard to list them all.
it's a very popular aircraft for the companies to model. Topflite has one, TopRC....lots to choose from.
Mine is the Hanger 9 60cc 1/5th scale. I'm going to power it with a performance unlimited products Zenoah G62, converted to cdi and reed valve induction. Elite retracts, retractable tail wheel, all with scale(ish) doors. Sliding canopy. I hope to be spinning a Romoser 23.5 inch 4 blade vario prop after tuning at, at minimum, 8 degrees pitch.
thanks for the reply , I'm a 39 year building and flying ww2 plane nut you are correct there is so much to choose from I've herd that the Nosen P-51 is a fantastic flyer as well and
Dave Platt , Mr. Scale also has a P-51 but haven't herd to much about it , thanks agin
Old 12-01-2021, 04:42 PM
  #1140  
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Originally Posted by Txmustangflyer View Post
Info from Ramoser says that hooked to a gas engine, max rpm for the vario prop is 6300. I have to assume that's on the ground. Prop rpm increases in flight, Never had a telemetry tach on a plane, but that's what I was told.
Is that accurate?

yes sir, you are correct.

I have over 10 gas motors, all desert aircraft and one DLE, range from Da 35, 50, 60, 70 twin, 100 inline, 120 twin, 150 twin, and 4 of the DA 200 quads, and all of them, using JETI and optical rpm sensor, in the air will spin way more than on the ground.

for example, a DA 200 quad, on the ground, will max rpm a 30 x 13 carbon fiber 2 blade prop at 6500 rpm, but in the air, if you are not careful, it will spin up to 7400 rpm.

my da 35, on the ground, will turn a 2 blade carbomn fiber prop at 6800 rpm, and in the air, it will turn it at 8100 rpm.
Old 12-02-2021, 05:09 AM
  #1141  
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Originally Posted by orthobird View Post
yes sir, you are correct.

I have over 10 gas motors, all desert aircraft and one DLE, range from Da 35, 50, 60, 70 twin, 100 inline, 120 twin, 150 twin, and 4 of the DA 200 quads, and all of them, using JETI and optical rpm sensor, in the air will spin way more than on the ground.

for example, a DA 200 quad, on the ground, will max rpm a 30 x 13 carbon fiber 2 blade prop at 6500 rpm, but in the air, if you are not careful, it will spin up to 7400 rpm.

my da 35, on the ground, will turn a 2 blade carbomn fiber prop at 6800 rpm, and in the air, it will turn it at 8100 rpm.
I assumed maybe 500 to a thousand rpm..that's a big swing..
Old 12-02-2021, 05:17 AM
  #1142  
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Originally Posted by SIX GUNS View Post
thanks for the reply , I'm a 39 year building and flying ww2 plane nut you are correct there is so much to choose from I've herd that the Nosen P-51 is a fantastic flyer as well and
Dave Platt , Mr. Scale also has a P-51 but haven't herd to much about it , thanks agin
You are right, you have a LOT of choices.

Here's what I did. I chose scale first, then budget. I narrowed all the choices in that scale down to two. The toprc composite which retails around 1400 to 1800 for just the airframe, and the Hanger 9. Of the two, the Hanger 9 appears closer to scale, 2nd, it's ultraKote covered and fully sheeted. Repairs will be easier. This, it's a half cowl fuselage, the top part of the cowl isn't removable. But, it also means that I don't have to tear down the spinner and prop to get access to the engine, ignition, or throttle and choke servo. Add in its nearly the right color scheme and there you go.
I went with an ARF because I don't have the room for a full build.
Old 12-02-2021, 05:36 AM
  #1143  
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Has anyone ever done a Ziroli p-51 with the DA 100 inline? If so.. How was the fit, weight, performance, etc.. Thanks! John
Old 12-02-2021, 07:19 AM
  #1144  
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John, the nice thing about a zirolli, If you plan ahead, the firewall placement in the plans can be modified to fit the engine you choose. Just got to know your measurements from the get-go. The 100cc should be enough to scoot it along quite nicely. I think it was originally intended (someone correct me if I'm wrong) for 80 to 85 cc? But there are some flying with Kolm 3 cylinders so you should be ok. As long as you are aware of your engine placement, and make sure you build the wings and tail to take into account the extra power to avoid flutter, you should be ok. Beef up the spars on wing, stab, and vertical stab, as well as beef up elevator, rudder, and ailerons some.
If you not sure on how to do that, Then I'd stick with the 85 cc max. Even then, it will be plenty if power and you'll be able to run a whole lot of prop for the plane. Be a speed demon.
Old 12-02-2021, 12:14 PM
  #1145  
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Ok, guys. I need some help. I built my last plane some 10 years ago. Was flying it up till I sold it 8 years ago. A lot has changed.

I need a reciever power switch to go from battery(blue plug) to my Archer SR10 reciever (yellow plug) I think..or am I thinking wrong?

The battery also has two JR style plugs and the white balance charge plug.
As far as using a channel/servo plug on reciever, those are spoken for between servos and telemetry.
What do I need to make the connection? The two slots to the right of the white plug in on reciever are the Sbus in/out.




Old 12-03-2021, 03:39 PM
  #1146  
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Ok..thanks to some serious tech support from aloft...this clunkers now knows how to hook up the new fangled gadgets to the new fangled reciever...and this klunkhead has managed to muddle his way through setting up his new fangled computerized radio gadget for the new plane...

I'm going to go take an excedrin migraine and lay down now...

Old 12-03-2021, 04:53 PM
  #1147  
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hi there, I hope not to sound intrusive in any way, but, nowadays, the technology on our model airplanes is wasy more adavnced than 5 years ago, even more so than 10 years ago. My current radio set up is such that the receiver batteries are always connected to the receiver and there is no switch between the batteries and the receiver. The caveat is, I do not leave my batteries inside the airplane before or after arriving to the flying field. Meaning, I use lipo batteries 2s or 3s batteries to power my model airplanes. I charge them right before I fly and before I pack up to leave for the day from the club, I remove the batteries from the airplane and place them inside a "ammunitions carrying case". and this is left inside my trailer. I do not leave the batteries inside my home or garage.

Additionally, my radio system is such, that I can turn the model radio system (receiver and servos) on and off from my transmitter. There is no flip type switch in the model airplane fuselage to flip. Additionally, the electornic switch, powered by a small receiver, is a fail safe switch, meaning, if the receiver / switch fails, the airplanes radio system remains on.


Old 12-03-2021, 06:42 PM
  #1148  
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Originally Posted by orthobird View Post
hi there, I hope not to sound intrusive in any way, but, nowadays, the technology on our model airplanes is wasy more adavnced than 5 years ago, even more so than 10 years ago. My current radio set up is such that the receiver batteries are always connected to the receiver and there is no switch between the batteries and the receiver. The caveat is, I do not leave my batteries inside the airplane before or after arriving to the flying field. Meaning, I use lipo batteries 2s or 3s batteries to power my model airplanes. I charge them right before I fly and before I pack up to leave for the day from the club, I remove the batteries from the airplane and place them inside a "ammunitions carrying case". and this is left inside my trailer. I do not leave the batteries inside my home or garage.

Additionally, my radio system is such, that I can turn the model radio system (receiver and servos) on and off from my transmitter. There is no flip type switch in the model airplane fuselage to flip. Additionally, the electornic switch, powered by a small receiver, is a fail safe switch, meaning, if the receiver / switch fails, the airplanes radio system remains on.
It may be technologically possible to do that, but in the US, I think the AMA requires switched power to both reciever and to ignition for their coverage.
as I plan on setting mine up to charge in plane, not removing the batteries, this is also a requirement..

Old 12-04-2021, 04:45 AM
  #1149  
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Where did you read that requirement?
Old 12-04-2021, 05:38 AM
  #1150  
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Originally Posted by Txmustangflyer View Post
It may be technologically possible to do that, but in the US, I think the AMA requires switched power to both reciever and to ignition for their coverage.
as I plan on setting mine up to charge in plane, not removing the batteries, this is also a requirement..
not to sound argumentative

and with all due respect

1. I live in Louisiana, part of the USA

2. I compete in IMAC, Pattern, and I also fly warbirds.

3. When I travel all over Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Mississippi, not all, but a proportion of pilots (including myself), we have radios with these functions. There is even way more! I have telemetry that tells me each cylinder head temperature, tells me the RPM of the propeller, which can be programmed (the sensor) to detect rpm on a 2, 3, or 4 blade prop. I also get real time information on the status of the batteries, how much amps are being drawn, what is the voltage, and what is the capacity. And, I can also get altitude information while I fly.

4. If you do not use LIPO batteries, it is ok to leave the baterries in the airplane. Will you use NICD or NIMH batteries? Be aware, that now, there are many other options: Lithium ions, LIPO, and LIFE batteries. all have pros and cons. I like the LIPO because they can be charged quickly, they can deliver power on demand, and less likelihood of brown outs, like I used to have over 15 years ago when I used NIMH / NICD.

5. You are more than able to use swiches in your model airplane, all a matter of preference. Just be aware that a switch, being mechanical, over time, will wear out and can fail. If the switch fails during flight (not only flipping it on/off but vibrations can damage the switch), then you will have a no control dead stick.


Please take this all with good intent. If you already know this, you can disregard.

Best regards,


Cam

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