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Ziroli p-47 92" blown up to 110"

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Ziroli p-47 92" blown up to 110"

Old 01-25-2014, 02:36 PM
  #1  
samparfitt
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Default Ziroli P-47 THUNDERBOLT 92" BLOWN UP TO 110"



110" P-47:
I took Ziroli's plans and had them blown up 20% giving a 110" WS model. I took them to Phipps repro and they did an excellent job. The 4 original sheets turned into 12 new sheets: Since the parts were in different angles, additional sheets were needed to get all the parts printed (some of the sheets are short to get the parts that were partially copied). If you want copies, see Ian at:
http://www.phippsrepro.com/
Ask for P-47 planes or he may have it under my name.

Since parts are larger than the normal 1 foot wide ply that is available for hobby purposes, I went to rockler wood working shop and picked up 5 ply 1/4" thick and 7 ply 1/2" thick 2'X4' baltic birch plywood sheets. For lite ply, I went to home depot and got some solid core 1/4" thick 4'X8' sheet (this is not plywood but a solid core). The plywood seemed to have a very thin surface layer that easily flaked off and I feared it would, thus, not hold glue and just delaminate on the surface.

Servos are HS-7955's with 333 torque ounces (should be enough) for all moving surfaces.

Plan of attack:
Fuse:
Except around the engine area the formers will be made with the 1/4" solid core sheeting.
Fire wall will be 1/2" 7 ply and engine box area 1/4" 5 ply.
Stringers will be 1/4" square balsa sticks.
Sheeting will be 1/8" thick balsa.

Stab:
1/8" thick balsa ribs.
3/32" sheeting.
box sheer webbing on main spar.
a 'joiner' spar will be used to screw the stab spar to the fuse formers: (screws plus epoxy) for safety.

Elevator:
1/8" ribs.
1/16" sheeting

Fin:
1/8" ribs
1/16" sheeting.

Wings:
1/8" aircraft ply for gear/center area.
The original one piece wing will be made into a 2 piece wing with 2 wing tubes.
spars: 1/4"X 1/2" hardwood.
ribs: outside the gear area, 1/4" thick balsa sheeting will be used: more surface area for sheeting plus add lightning holes to reduce weight.
Sheer webbing:
Main spar boxed with 1/16" thick ply to the main gear ribs.
Trailing spar with 1/16" thick ply to the main gear ribs.
Outside the gear ribs, 3/32" thick balsa for sheer webbing.
3/32" for wing sheeting.
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Last edited by samparfitt; 01-25-2014 at 02:57 PM.
Old 01-25-2014, 02:44 PM
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samparfitt
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Plan of attack (cont)
The cowl, canopy and frame are from com arf. They do excellent work. Looks like the cowl fits perfectly over the enlarged fire wall. A ziroli 92" cowl in next to the carf one for comparison.
I called Darrell from sierra giant a few weeks ago and my gear should be arriving shortly.
http://www.sierragiant.com/prod06.html

Engine power will be the Moki 250.

Cockpit will be from dynamic balsa:
http://www.dbalsa.com/

Functioning cowl flaps, inner cooling doors, main/tail gear doors, landing lights, nav lights and sliding canopy will be done.

Finish will be aluminum tape with panel lines and rivets.
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:56 PM
  #3  
Greg Wright
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Sam,
You should make it a three piece wing so that you can keep it on it's gear in your trailer. That is what i wish Carf would have done with there design.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:04 PM
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samparfitt
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Greg,
I normally make my planes 3 piece but the gear is pretty wide on the P-47. One wing is 55", the outer rib to the gear is 25" so 30" would be the outer wings. That makes the center 50" wide. That would make it nice. My trailer is 14' long. I wanted to take the carf F4U and P-47 on the same flyins but I'm not sure I can get two 110" planes on their gear into the trailer.
By myself, I have to use a ramp to get the F4U in the trailer. Two 110" planes won't fit on the floor level and a ramp to a 2nd level isn't practical and I would always have to have help if the P-47 was lifted onto a 2nd level. I figured with just a P-47 fuse, that I could lift that by myself. I like planes on gear but not sure of the logistics.
Old 01-26-2014, 09:54 AM
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I forgot about the flaps!
The flaps go out to the next rib so, to prevent severe hanger rash on the flaps, the center wing would have to be another 7" wider making a total of 57". The doors on my trailer are 66" wide. I see why carf didn't make it 3 piece as a large trailer would be needed. I think most of the F4U's are sold in Europe (don't know if this will also hold for the P-47) and I think they use a lot of vans and their trailers are probably not as large as in the USA.
Old 01-26-2014, 11:50 AM
  #6  
Greg Wright
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Sam i thought i would make the suggestion to you. My trailer is 8.5 feet wide and 17 feet long so i guess i wouldn't have an issue like you.
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Last edited by Greg Wright; 02-05-2014 at 08:57 AM.
Old 02-01-2014, 11:28 AM
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Plans cut and parts cut:
With the today's temperature going to a blistering 50 degrees, I thought I'd do some work on the P-47 where I can go out to the detached shop.
With all the major components done on the B-25, I removed those plans and put the P-47 wing plans on the building board. At 110", only a few inches of table were left. I used a long L angle bracket to insure both wings are parallel to each other at the main spar.
Next, I cut out all the parts from the parts sheets and put them with their respective plans, insuring no parts are missing. Lots of blank paper was left around the parts outline to make it easier to cut with the band saw.
The canopy frame is wider (rounder) than the formers but that should be OK.
The wing support parts FWS-1/2 were the only parts not on a full sheet: this was academic since I always make the fuse nose 1 inch longer (1.25" since 20% larger) anyway to reduce the nose weight, and I needed to make these two parts 1.25" longer for proper fit.
I used some loctite spray adhesive to secure the paper templates to the plywood.
The firewall and F1 used 1/2" 7 ply. F3-4 got 1/4" 5 ply since the engine box will be secured to these.
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Last edited by samparfitt; 02-01-2014 at 11:41 AM.
Old 02-01-2014, 11:37 AM
  #8  
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Cutting the formers:
The remaining formers were put on the 4'X8' lite ply from home depot. I've attached a picture of the bar code of this solid core ply. This 1/4" lite ply is really only 3/16" wide (usual metric dimensions now used at home repair stores for sheet goods). The 1/4" 5 ply and 1/2" 7 ply baltic birch from rocklers is true dimensions.
The large solid core sheet was ripped at 28" wide to take two formers side by side.
A brand new 1/8" wide band saw blade was used to cut all the formers leaving about a 1/16" gap along the formers.
The oscillating band sander from home depot works great sanding away the waste getting down to the paper template line. I find holding the parts off the table while sanding is easier to control and less likely to have the part being grabbed by the sander and whipped across the room.
The bulk of the formers have been cut and sanded.
1/4" square stringers will be used so those have to be individually marked on the templates and then the notches cut out.
Formers F10A/F11 were not cut yet as I think Darrell's tail gear attaches to F11 versus robarts to F10A but will wait for gear before cutting.
A lot of the large 4'X8" sheet was left over (but at 20 bucks, it's cheap).
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Last edited by samparfitt; 02-01-2014 at 12:00 PM.
Old 02-01-2014, 04:06 PM
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More paste and cut:
All ribs up to the gear were done with the 3/16" thick lite ply, ie W1 to W-7, which used up just about the full 4'X8' sheet.
The outer ribs past the gear were done with 1/4" thick balsa sheet, ie, W-8 to W-13.
The wing saddles, gear doublers and spar doublers were all done with 1/8" thick aircraft ply.
The balsa sheets were tack glued (2 per rib) together before cutting.
The parts with ply had the first one rough cut, the 2nd part then tack glued on and another rough cut and then all were final sanded to their respective outlines.
All duplicates were be kept together until all the notches are cut. Eleven hours straight work: really 11 hours, no breaks, lunches, dinners.
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Last edited by samparfitt; 02-01-2014 at 04:08 PM.
Old 02-01-2014, 05:16 PM
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Brad330l
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Like your work mate.
I'm subscribed for this.

Brad
Old 02-02-2014, 10:47 AM
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samparfitt
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Thanks, Brad.
=======

Final paste and cut:
Cut and sanded all the balsa pieces. That balsa dust is hard on shop vacs: so fine that it just clogs up the filter. As with the ply pieces, I stacked those requiring duplicates, again using the loctite spray adhesive to hold parts together. The 3/32" thick ribs for stab, elevator, fin and rudder were upgraded to 1/8" thick balsa.
Stacked piles for fuse, wing, fin/rudder, stab/elevator and pylon (nice that's included in the plans).
Total cost of materials: $156
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Last edited by samparfitt; 02-02-2014 at 10:49 AM.
Old 02-02-2014, 02:29 PM
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samparfitt
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Scale moveable surfaces:
G10 will be used to create the hinges for the flaps and ailerons and yellow nyrod/1/16" wire will be used for the elevators and rudder.
Ailerons will be bottom surface mounted and should be able to have internal servo linkage.
Elevators and rudder will be hinged at the center radius of the LE.
Flaps: I'm working on a fowler type system where the flap will go back and down.
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Old 02-02-2014, 03:09 PM
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Looks great Sam subscribed.
Old 02-03-2014, 06:12 AM
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Nice work, subscribed.
Old 02-04-2014, 05:10 AM
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I see Sam's aircraft factory is at full production still.
I can hardly wait till I retire and can spend half the amount of time in the shop that you do Sam; I'll be watching this build like I do with all your others.

Mike
Old 02-05-2014, 06:34 AM
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Sam, you are certainly a multi-tasker
Old 02-05-2014, 06:44 PM
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TonyBuilder
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Originally Posted by samparfitt View Post


Scale moveable surfaces:
G10 will be used to create the hinges for the flaps and ailerons and yellow nyrod/1/16" wire will be used for the elevators and rudder.
Ailerons will be bottom surface mounted and should be able to have internal servo linkage.
Elevators and rudder will be hinged at the center radius of the LE.
Flaps: I'm working on a fowler type system where the flap will go back and down.
Sam, I am doing all scale surfaces, fries hinge on the ailerons, you can check my build in kit build.

TB
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Last edited by TonyBuilder; 02-05-2014 at 06:48 PM.
Old 02-05-2014, 08:09 PM
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Hey Sam Subscribed as well.
Also I would like to thank you for some very creative ideas. I'm building the Ziroli Dauntless and I'm using the removable firewall and tail mounted servos you outlined in your build thread.
Thank you and keep building!
Old 02-06-2014, 02:59 AM
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samparfitt
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Thanks for all the compliments.
Glad people are reading and picking up ideas.

Tony,
Please attach your build thread as I could not find anything under 'kit builder' for P-47 nor tonybuilder under your name.
Old 02-06-2014, 05:30 AM
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TonyBuilder
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Originally Posted by samparfitt View Post
Tony,
Please attach your build thread as I could not find anything under 'kit builder' for P-47 nor tonybuilder under your name.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-...-build-42.html

TB
Old 02-06-2014, 06:54 AM
  #21  
samparfitt
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Tony,
I found the aileron setup on page 42. Impressive work and great pictures with a detailed explanation.
Nice to see someone put out a detailed 'how to' as normally, just a few pictures are shown.
I'll be interested in your flap setup.

For those wanting to quickly find it:
Starting at post #1029 is the aileron setup:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-...-build-42.html

Last edited by samparfitt; 02-06-2014 at 07:45 AM.
Old 02-26-2014, 08:01 AM
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samparfitt
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Fuse (cont)
I had to build new risers since my old ones were too short to support the crutch at the proper height.
Previously, I already cut out the formers but now they needed all the notches cut out for the crutch and stringers.
After finding out that I like building Bates B-26 with the 1/4" square stringers (more sheeting surface), the formers were marked and cut for that size stringers. I found a 1/4" and 1/2" wide files at harbor freight but found, after cutting out a ton of 1/4" squares in the formers, that one gets proficient at knowing the correct size to cut the notch with the scroll saw. Four formers done, thus far.
The wing saddle supports needed larger notches since the formers are all larger than 1/8" thick.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:56 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by samparfitt View Post
Tony,
I found the aileron setup on page 42. Impressive work and great pictures with a detailed explanation.
Nice to see someone put out a detailed 'how to' as normally, just a few pictures are shown.
I'll be interested in your flap setup.

For those wanting to quickly find it:
Starting at post #1029 is the aileron setup:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-...-build-42.html

I kept the flaps simple as this kit is to small for scale flap hinges, for me that is.




TB
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:34 PM
  #24  
samparfitt
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Thanks, Tony,
I like how you did the ailerons. I've done some prototypes for the fowler flaps and should be able to implement those.
========

Fuse (cont)
A heat gun works well for removing the templates from the ply.

The wing saddles were epoxied to the crutch (upside down).
Instructions say to put crutch on risers, upside down: I saw no need for that so put it right side up.
Formers F1 to F-6 were dry fitted to the crutch, after some cutting and sanding.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:31 PM
  #25  
TonyBuilder
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The trains are bad azz! Maybe when I am done flying I will build a train city :-)

TB

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