GerKonig

Nutcases is actually a political movement?:-)

Gerry

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Sorry dude, I don't have that kind of time on my hands. Neither do most of us that aren't retired. When one piles into the ground, I'd prefer to only be out a few hundred bucks, not years of my life. This is a thread about an ARF manufacturer, not the merits of kit building.

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Probably. Nothing lasts forever. In the end, I guess it doesn't matter what the reason for it is. The reality of the situation in that they have probably priced themselves out of the market since the competition is selling better products at the same (or cheaper) prices.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Yep not enough time or never tried one but getting attatched is a new one .lol I put in a couple hours every day or so building and pretty soon they are finished . I build cause i dont want to fly the same thing everyone else flys and money is no object for me neither . joe

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

The sacrifice of a little time will reward you with the less likelihood of piling into the ground. The emotional investment tends to create a higher level of quality in setup, and managing of the things that cause crashes. This aircraft took me 4 months to build and get test flown. I work over 50 hours a week. This hobby thrived before the era of the ARF, and it will thrive after the Era of the ARF.

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

I admire the skills and patience of those of you that stick with kit builds, but most of the people in the hobby these days (including myself) would rather spend more time flying than building. I doubt the era of the ARF will ever be over because of that. Technology will continue to progress which will bring the costs down even further and the used market is already flooded with planes which makes it even cheaper to get a great flying ARF in the air. Anyway, back on topic...

scaleman57

My Feedback: (23)

Ive had 5 or 6 ESM and Ecomrc models from TBM. I wanted their Cessna 195 but Im not paying $200 for shipping. What I do now buy one used on RCU guys buy them keep them a year then get rid of a nice airplane that you can buy for a fraction of the price they payed for it.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I wanted to point out one more thing. Especially to those that have never built a plane from the ground up.

Getting the plane framed up, generally does not take very long. It is usually fitting all of the hardware, and electronics, then finishing that requires the most time. The final assembly of a built plane though, is much easier than that of an ARF, as all of this has been taken care of before covering etc.

I have done my share of ARF's, and the work that is needed to get them ready, is generally way more complicated than an aircraft I have built.

Building a plane starting with sticks, is not as daunting as many may believe.

There is no question that you feel better, and have more respect for a model that you built. Not to mention, the quality and longevity of the model is generally far better. (At least with the warbirds/scale models. The IMAC stuff seems to be a little better).

I have heard from several modelers that have ESM models, and they have said they will never buy another one. As you have a shell of a plane, but the interior is very poorly engineered. These conversations have led me away from getting an ESM model, even though I have been tempted many times. The Stuka is a good example. I came very close to getting one, but instead I got a Ziroli kit instead. I know in the end I will have a superior model, that will last a lifetime. The ESM surely would have disappointed. Here is my Stuka, halfway done.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

I like you guys also ,when i sold off my 60 or more of my hand built gas /nitro birds i had hanging around my basement it was guys like you who paid great cash for them. lmao I build and fly only electrict now and will build 60 or so more .lol NICE STUKA ! V.G. . joe

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

I doubt you would have gotten a dime from me. I wouldn't have paid what you probably consider "great cash".

Seriously though, while I'm sure all of us appreciate the opinions of kit builders, could we please try for once to keep an RCU thread on topic and not have it degenerate into bickering on subjective matters? That is happening far too often lately and it's caused a number of valuable threads to disappear.

kwik

I was trying to be polite.

But I agree with you, and I probably didnt manage to hide it well.

hehe.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

The thread was about raising prices of china junk and i offered another way not to have to pay it! If i hurt any feeling of people who are busy ,lazy or just dont care ,OH well! The sheep will keep on paying it because there is nothing you can do about it if you want to fly ,but i can and will. Now go back to your thread about getting ripped off. joe

DOC

My Feedback: (57)

What I have noticed is that ALL ESM dealers charge the same price. A few years ago one dealer tried to sell for less and he was "cut off" and was forced to" price fix". What ever happened to Free enterprise. Tower or LHS all offer discounts, but try to get a discount from a ESM dealer. Believe me the Market will seek its own level !

p3arljam

My Feedback: (5)

I was ready to buy the ESM ZERO but that isnt going to happen now. They apparently have raised their prices to all of their vendors so the vendors have to abide by that and pass it on to us. They will be out of business soon Troy built models will notice the sales fall off and most likely stop selling them. As far as building planes i commute for work and between that and family i dont have the time to kit build plus the fact that flying season is not year round i want to be in the air not waiting for glue to dry. I respect people who build i wish i had the time but these are the same people who probably have other planes ready to fly so they can take their time waiting for others to be built. I would love to have the time,space and skill to build kits i just dont. ESM makes the size and models i like to fly but i think they think their product will sell no matter what the price and only time will tell but i see a price drop or product drop within 6 months. I really dont think the labor cost went up where those planes are made so it has to be the shipping.

GerKonig

I agree, but remember some do not have the brain power to even understand the name of the thread, or think that since they are old, it does not apply to them anyway... Oh well, back to covering my US made giant low wing sweet stick (Midwest kit) with British covering (21st Century fabric)... using my Chinese hot iron...

Gerry

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Yep, seems about right. I was trying to be courteous and respectfully ask that the topic stay on track. Even though it was obvious from your initial post, I refrained from insulting you and accusing you of trolling with the sole intent of flaming people who build ARF's. Thanks for making my point for me.

Your stance on the hobby is that people who build ARFs are:
Apathetic
Stupid
Farm animals

Got it.

GerKonig

Not necessarily the shipping. Most likely they just decided to just jack up the price and increase the profits. After all, the Zero of the competition is much more expensive (Top Flite), and similar in size.

Gerry

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Not trying to be arguementative, but after shipping costs from TBM and the lack of shipping costs from Tower, the Top Flite kit is only $50 more. Plus, I bet the cost of the ESM plane is going increase even more once they are in stock again.

Man, ESM has really turned me. I used to be a big fan.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

6 months to build is nothing. Just ask that guy who has been waiting for a replacement Esm wing panel for his 190 for 8 months now. You could of Built the entire model and been flying by now!

I was actually hoping to pickup an esm fw190D or the DO335 for a quick build to get flying for this summer, but after seeing the price hike, not interesed, i can build a better and nicer model for slightly more $$$.

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Are you talking about me? LOL. I actually just got an email tonight from TBM that my 190 wing is in stock after waiting since September. At the current costs there is no way I'll tolerate this any more.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I remember a time when the ARF existed, but it was the rarity. Why? Because you could build an airplane for a lot less than the ARF's cost. There was not a good selection either, and the quality was garbage. Then came the late 90's, and cheap labor and laser cut, jig built aircraft brought the price way down. So here we are. It is cheaper to buy an ARF, than it is to build the same plane. Now, we are starting to experience the correction. You would have never seen an American built ARF, marketable as we want too much for labor.

I have a question..........At what point would you not buy a particular ARF? Let's say the ESM 50cc ME 109. How much is too much? $900? , $1000? $1200?

I know I could build one to ARF status for under $1000, easy. One thing, with an ARF, you pay for labor. With a kit, I do not charge myself for labor. Building is the hobby for me, that is why I do this.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

If you dont get it i doubt you ever will so pay their increase and keep flying with a big smile. OK ! everyone their price everyone admits has gone up ! Daaaaa i guess thats the end of this thread . lmao. I have many friends who buy only arfs and fly them so now what ? My stance on this hobby was ,president of a 300 member club for two terms ,AMA member for 35 years ,competing in pattern and pylon when i was young and instructor for 30 + years now. OH ! shame on me i enjoy scratch building mine too! joe

foodstick

This thread sort of reminds me of an older one I started about
"What happens when the cost of arf and kit building meet?"

I don't know for certain why ESM raised their prices..But I imagine they had to due to their raising costs.. They will probably make less money at higher prices because it turns some people away..
I wish I could have socked away a bunch of the arfs I liked when they were so under priced in the past.

It's just like when kits went thru the cycle of nobody wants them, to COLLECTORS ITEM.

I am just bummed I can't find as many half built kits at swap meets anymore.. you want to talk about something viewed as a Ugly Red headed step child !

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Double post.

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

[QUOTE=joebahl;11794680]Nobody cares about your resume. You're clearly here to troll as you have no interest in ESM models. Obviously you're not reading either. Most of us have said that we won't keep paying their prices and flying their models.