Burt Reynolds

First thread for me here and thank you for any input anyone might have,


I am big into scale warbirds as many people here are and I have been contemplating my first big warbird build. The biggest question I have in regards to which plane I decide to build will hinge on engine sound realism. Obviously nothing right now is an exact scaled down replica but I can try to get as close as I can. I have been pondering building an FW-190A for quite sometime as there are some good sounding radials out there with the moki and some others, but I am trying to get more info on what anyone here might have found in regards to a good V-12 alternative, and by alternative I mean as close to the real sound as you can come. I have looked at many engines and so far the best I can find that is available is something like the Kolm IL 150 or IL 200, they sound good at speed in the air, not as great at idle but for all intensive purposes the sound while flying is what matters. I found the Authentic Scale site which displays that they are planning a merlin V-12 but no indication of when that might arrive for the public. So with that, I will simplify my real questions below...

1. For those looking for the sound realism like me, what are the best selections you have found/implimented to try and come close to a V-12?

2. Has anyone who has built a scale BF-109 found any solution to creating the high pitched whistle a Daimler-Benz DB 605 puts off? (I believe mostly due to it's supercharger, correct me if I'm wrong on that.)


Thanks,


Burt Reynolds

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Model V12 engines dont sound like the full sized engines.. not even close. Too small displacement. too many rpms etc..
Electric sound modules can mimic the full scale because they are digitized representations of the full scale. But. you have to go electric and have speakers etc.
Radial Model engines do the best job. The Big Moki's are very convincing albeit not exactly perfect.
Still the sound is much better than the standard 2 stroke gas engine.

Burt Reynolds

Thanks for the response. No interest in going electric of course. I know the model V-12s don't sound like the real thing but I have only ever seen videos of them mounted on the ground. Has anyone mounted one on a plane yet and recorded it in flight? The big moki's for instance sometimes sound like Harleys on the ground but beautiful in flight.

john534

Burt,
I also share your interest in the sound challenge. Back when I first thought of designing reductions, I was looking fr the perfect fourstroke engine... a long came Kolm engines.
My own 135cc and 270 deg timing amazed me with its sound! Just awesome and sounded like my dads Harley to boot -lol! I have recently tested some other Kolm engines and the 150cc triple is the latest. Wow, Its fantastic! The 200 sounds awesome in the online videos, but for a "model" aircraft engine, these are incredible pieces and in person, they are even better. Finally the inline WWII fans can have there cake too.

If you don't mind me sharing a video link, some of the tests I have done are here - https://www.youtube.com/user/534jgm/videos

Like Bob said, the "lumpy" sound for the model engines comes from the right combination, firing pattern, displacement, # of cylinders.... and I have to add, a HUGE high pitch prop beating away at LOW rpm's adds a lot to the sound.
The V12 you mention sounds neat, but there is a group in Germany all ready testing their 220cc V12. Its very impressive, but because of the small bore, I just don't think it would have the rumble you are looking for??

Here is the V12 page: https://www.youtube.com/user/ArtusMotor

As for the whistle, it could be added from something like a cooling fan, and I hope for the same effect from a 70mm EDF forced cooling in my CARF Mustang.

Hope this gives you something to chew on. Best regards,

John

Burt Reynolds

Great videos John! I especially like the way the Kolm 150 sounds with the reduction you put on it, I am a fan of large props as well. I wonder does that make it tricky at all with the engine cowl fitment? This definately gives me more hope for building a more enjoyable inline warbird! Do you mostly do work on ratio reductions for performance, sound, or both? You are relatively close to where I live so I wonder if someday when I get my own inline I might be able to send it up there for some work.

john534

Thanks Burt!

I like the sound too ;-)

The 150 is actually for a customer in Norway and will install that engine/reduc combo in a 1/3.5 scale ME-109 he is scratching!

You know, the fitting part is always tricky, but I will say there are pluses and minuses with the reductions. Of course we can move things back to conceal in a narrow cowl, but then the big gears make cooling a challenge. My reductions are basically "generic" in design, but I can do some custom things to help fitting.
Some guys look for a HUGE scale prop, but you have to remember, a reduction does not add power, it changes how its delivered. So thrust, pitch speed, and a good scale size all come into play when I design a given unit. Warbirds have to fly like Warbirds right? ;-)

Sure, any time as we are close. Also you can PM me here and we can go into depth when ever you like. Thanks again!!!

john

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Impressive work John!

i especially like the planetary reduction on the Moki 250.

Now you need to figure a way of doing that same setup for a Kolhm 150 so those of us with skinny noses (11"dia.) can use the kolhm in the same way as the PSRU's

LA7flier

My Feedback: (1)

Unless you plan to build a massive airframe, the V12 will be way too powerful. Also fuel capacity becomes an issue. Matching a prop to the engine and getting everything to run reliably then becomes the challenge. All of this becomes a tremendous expense. The reason you don't see model V12 engines is because there is an extremely limited market. There are custom "one-off" builds that will set you back many thousands of dollars. The authentic sound has always been an elusive though highly sought after goal for many modelers....unfortunately, there is really no good solutions

Burt Reynolds

Thanks for the input, I was thinking this is the case with the V-12 but needed to confirm my suspiscions. I see there are also V-8s in production, maybe those are not quite so cumbersome and more practical? Probably best to stick with a radial though, seems like the only one to fit the bill for sound though is the moki, unless anyone has any other examples of another brand that can garner the deeper sound as well? I appreciate all the replies!

larry@coyotenet

My Feedback: (21)

A thing called physics gets in the way. Those Kolm engines sound great but in no way do they sound like a Merlin or DB 603. You have to have been to an airshow in person, like the Reno air races, to really hear what a big radial or inline engine sounds like when it's being pushed. The electronic sound generators just don't have the oomph to duplicate the engine sound in the air,
again it's physics, in particular speaker size and design that limits things.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Sound is the holy grail for modelers. The most true sound comes from the jet turbins. Part of the attraction for many.