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I still dont get it, beautiful expensive planes, cheap parts!

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I still dont get it, beautiful expensive planes, cheap parts!

Old 06-04-2014, 08:52 AM
  #26  
stallspeed
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Great topic! In years past when I had less of a budget I still went with the best gear available. I would rather have one or two planes that I knew we're solid, than a bunch of hodge podge questionable planes that I didn't have faith in. Today I have unlimited funds and can afford anything I could possibly want, but I still have the same mindset. I have a few nice planes, properly built that I enjoy without feeling I need every new cheap plane that comes to market! Some of this is just instant gratification that is unfortunately part of our culture these days! Sometimes less is more. I can't help but notice the guys who have a new cheap aircraft every week, but end up taking it home in a bag at the end of the day! Short attention span, they are bored with it and looking forward to a new plane already. Seems to me they should just focus on becoming a better pilot. Just one mans opinion, to each their own.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:54 AM
  #27  
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The electric craze has made many companies POP up daily. I thought Hitec servos were a good MIDDLE road between high/low priced servos..
Gas singles are BRUTAL on servo equipment.. A Hyde Type mount should be used to protect your expensive electronics.. but that is a entirely dif. thread.

I agree with the above..... MY TIME is PRICELESS.... and I do not want to waist it with Inferior products that were CHEAP OR EXPENSIVE!!!

That is why we have EACH OTHER>..... a forum, to help everyone get into out hobby, on there OWN budget, and be safe, have fun, and KNOW what is good, and what isn't !

take care.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:56 AM
  #28  
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Being cheap is a character flaw. It's motivated by thinking that the mainstream businesses and retailers are all trying to cheat you. Most who think that are actually those kinds of people themselves, always looking to cheat someone else. If you think you're always being cheated, you think you are always paying too much. And when you think you are always paying too much you start looking for alternatives. Such people are easy marks for Turnigy and Zippy and other cheap Hobby King stuff. Yes, some of it is usable which can turn out to be smart shopping. But a lot of the cheap stuff simply doesn't work. And there is also the issue of doing business with companies that use sweatshop child labor to keep costs down, but I suppose that's a different conversation.

My dad was cheap, and wound up with a decently sized collection of junk as as result. He wasn't into modeling- more of an outdoorsy type. He didn't have a single good quality tool, never had a car than was reliable for more than a couple of years, all his guns and fishing gear were rusted up and unreliable, lawn mower had to go to the shop at least once a year, and was always having to fix things. My grandmother (mom's side) always said to decide what you need and go get a good one. She bought fewer things, but everything she did have worked. I'd much rather go her route and have 4-5 good airplanes that I can trust for years to come rather than a whole garage full of junk that I have trouble out of.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:00 AM
  #29  
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One thing may be worth mentioning and that is how we measure quality. What decides what is quality component? This is all relative really. I don't spend a 1000 dollars for servos in a 30cc plane. Also one man's quality may be measured much differently with the next man. In two planes I have I have gone overboard on the quality of servos. Did that make them better than any of my other planes? I really cannot prove that I have had better usage out of the high end servos verses middle of the road.

I don't run the HK Orange receivers either, but I know guys that have run them and never an issue. I do have some, just never used them. I do question how much quality is in a 10 dollar receiver though, but then I question why someone charges a 100 for a similar receiver and ask myself is it really that much higher in quality components or is it just brand name markup?


The irony is they are all made in other countries and often with very little QOS.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:06 AM
  #30  
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To me, that's all the more reason to purchase quality items.
When you are really down on the budget you scrape as much as you can together. It really doesn't matter if it doesn't last that long because you really cant afford the trip out to the field anyway. So you have mixed feelings about crashing, But then without flying you scrape enough savings for another. Been there, as well as being able to afford the hobby so I have seen both sides.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:07 AM
  #31  
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put in what ever makes you happy. A disposable fun flyer that is made of blue foam is not likely to have high end servos. much like most RTF's. but I have had the same issues as most. Expensive does not mean it lasts longer or will not fail.

And lets face it, since most have gone to 2.4 .. most planes still last longer than those that flew on 72. And most kit builds are put together to last a lot longer than almost any ARF.

And those pesky s-128 servos are still flying old airplanes.

setting aside those items that fail ,electronically.. most equipment is going to outlast the aircraft just because of the PILOT. the pilot is the most likely to set it up wrong, power it wrong, run it too lean, to high voltage or Amps..etc... or just something beyond his abilities.

we all know pilots that have saved an aircraft after a lost servo, control surface failure, etc..
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:12 AM
  #32  
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Jester you nailed it! My dad was the opposite, he was cheap minded, but when it came to tools he always told me save and get the best because there is no savings when the cheap tool breaks and hurts you in the process, and still have to replace the tool twice! But you are right about cheap people thinking the rest of the world is out to cheat them! It is no surprise to me that my dad is a bit of an angry negative person.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:22 AM
  #33  
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The main reason I use quality components in my airplanes is because experience has taught me that it will reduce the likelihood of injuring someone. I can easily stand to lose a few planes but injuring someone else would be difficult to cope with.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:41 AM
  #34  
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I also truly hate the line that goes "I'm on a tight budget, so I have to buy cheap stuff."
Every single one of us does this hobby with a budget that gives us an amount of money over time that we can spend. I'd say most of us who are active in RC spend about $100 a month on it. That covers club dues, fuel, maintenance, batteries, and the occasional new airplane. So during that $1200 year of spending, I could buy maybe 5 cheap foamies or used glow planes, or 2 new .40-.60 size glow planes with cheap internals, or 1 .40-.60 size glow plane with top of the line internals, or I could wait an extra year and have a mid grade 30cc gas plane with adequate servos and power system, or wait 2 extra years and have a top of the line IMAC plane, scale model, or a low end turbine jet. Everybody is on a budget. It's just a matter of how long you're willing to wait for quality.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:56 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by steph69 View Post
I have the topflite fw-190 GS and I am going to be using HITEC 5645mg digital servos. and a DLE 55 RA.
worst servos EVER! In my 25 years of being in this hobby, i have literally had 50! Of those servos either be DOA, quit while bench testing or have the worst centering capabilites of even the cheapest servos. I would never recommend someone use those. Spektrum has better digital metal gear servos for similar prices.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:05 AM
  #36  
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I think they all have their place. I fly foamies and cheap airframes and I put in cheap servos/motors/ESC, etc.. I have to say I can't remember the last equipment issue I have had (before the crashes). I will say they don't hold up as well. But its not what I fly it for.

Warbirds and mid-sized sports I tend to go middle of the road (MG or not depending on the application).

My big 3D's however I use mostly the best I can. My latest 74" Electric Edge has Hacker/Castle and Hitec TG digitals. No just for quality, but performance and endurance.

If you're on a tight budget, there is nothing wrong with picking up a cheap airframe at a swap meet and putting whatever equipment you choose. You're not risking a whole lot of money. 9 times out of 10, you can get another cheap airframe and transfer the equipment (less the failed unit) and only be lost some time and effort and just a little money.

Bottom line is its for fun. I have a good time huckin around with cheapo foamies and combatting and such....Also, I have a good time with some precision big scale flying.

The end.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:19 AM
  #37  
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Sure, an old beater airframe with cheap components can be a lot of fun. But that's not what the OP started the conversation about. The topic was guys who start with a nice airframe that they spent considerable money on and then cheap out on the internals. And that's just plain foolish.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:31 AM
  #38  
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Question: What makes a servo worth $250.00? Corporate Greed and the common idea that if it costs 5X more it's got to be 5X better. WRONG ! Those $250.00 servos are made in China along with the rest of all other servos.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:36 AM
  #39  
Tony Iannucelli
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I use both top brand name equipment and economical items, depending on the plane. I use a lot of Hitec servos, but honestly find the $2.75 HXT900 servos just as good as the $10-15 branded servos in small EDFs and 40-50" foamies. I've opened the servo cases up, and they look the same to me. Even the gears are interchangeable with some of them. I have two HXTs in my Evader pocket rocket with an orange receiver/satellite combo. Never an issue. About 20 flights so far. Feels solid and quick, works perfectly in range checks, on the bench and in the air. In a pricey Aeroworks plane and larger warbirds, I use the best I can afford. I also remember when servos that put out 50-60 ounces were all we needed. I don't rip helis around the sky, and I don't fly radical 3D. 200 ounce servos seem like overkill to my way of flying. I'll bet the mid-range servos are fine for most of us. Big planes, heavy gassers, aggressive flying -- you need strong servos, good batteries, and a good radio link, whatever the brands.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:59 PM
  #40  
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Perhaps the ego demands something that the pocketbook can't afford.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:41 PM
  #41  
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I find it is all the same, now anyways.

If you buy the most expensive Futaba radio and servos, but abuse it, overcharge the pack constantly, or generally don't do maintenance, I doubt it will outlast a Hobbyking setup.
Even still, the quality difference is so close now, the average guy won't notice any difference.

The only thing that people may be confusing is that cheap, low priced junk is still available from some distributers that otherwise sell good electronics.

I can go to Hobbyking and buy the lowest price stuff they sell and wonder why my 60 sized plane flew the same way a cinder block doesn't.
I can also go to Hobbyking, spend literally a few dollars more on each component, still far below a name-brand item, and get 99% what I'd be getting from a big name supplier.

The fact is, ten years ago, there were far more component related crashes. Fifty years ago, if your radio (top of the line, and cost a small fortune) worked at all, it was a good day.
There are far fewer crashes caused by poorly manufactured bits now then ever before, and prices are cheaper, and more reliable, then ever.

Seven years ago, I bought two 9 gram JR micro-servos, and even though they were state of the art, and cost 25 dollars apiece, they lasted one summer. Now I can buy dozens of the same product online for 3 bucks a pop. They are stronger, and I've never had one fail.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:44 PM
  #42  
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always use quality components. the trouble is price is a poor measure of quality.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:57 PM
  #43  
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Here is my 2 cents worth being fairly new to the hobby but totally addicted and now have 7 planes. Rebuilt 3 and one very large ARF 82" P-40.

My problem and that of my friends I fly with - how do you know what is really good and what is bad?

My first ARF I put all the high dollar stuff into it - Spektrum Receiver, Spektrum Servos, expensive electric motor, most expensive prop, expensive ESC, etc. I could find.

Why? Because the guys on the threads say they are the best. Then I read more and Futaba sucks or Spektrum sucks or Orange RX suck. Now what do I do? I ask in a forum and get 30 different opinions. So I decide to do my own test.

I have been flying HK orange receivers right next to the high dollar Spektrum for over two years and not one difference can I tell. No problems with either, they both work great, no faults I can tell, planes fly perfect.

So now I am in a pickle, do I trust the low cost unit and put it in my more expensive airframe? Why wouldn't I if I havent' had any problems? I have measured each range test in feet from airplane to loss of signal and they are almost identical. Am I paying for the NAME or is the unit that much better and should I pay much more money - I don't have a clue?

Until someone does a side by side analysis with hard data how do you know which is better? My thoughts go for RX, and Servo, and TX, and everything in this sport. It is difficult for the new person to know how much to spend on a item.

On the Airframe cost- I have found the airplane is the least expensive part really if you are buying a ARF or Kit. When you start putting on gear, servo, rx, ect. then it adds up. I have said many times, complaining, that you spend $ 600.00 for a nice airframe and have to pay $ 750.00 for the gear. I don't know if Sierra gear is better than Robart or someone else. I have two sets of Sierra and they have worked fine so far. That doesn't mean they are the best and they are very expensive. I complain because $ 1,500.00 is a lot of money to me and most people. Our hobby can be very expensive but it can also be affordable.

I guess my view of putting "cheap parts" in a expensive plane is - you put in what you can afford and what you "think" will work. Until someone can give you hard data on what is "cheap" or "inferior" you buy it and hope it works.

If someone has data that shows certain items are inferior I would really like to see it so I can make an "INFORMED" decision instead of guessing.

Thanks for listening!!

Keith
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:04 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by toolmaker7341 View Post
Question: What makes a servo worth $250.00? Corporate Greed and the common idea that if it costs 5X more it's got to be 5X better. WRONG ! Those $250.00 servos are made in China along with the rest of all other servos.
You should research before you make statements like that.

JR servos are made in JAPAN
Futaba is made in Taiwan
spektrum/savox/align are all made in Malaysia

while with the high dollar servos you are paying for the name, you are also getting QC'd and spec'd internal components, customer service, Repeatable performance, local (ish) service centers, multiple sources to get replacements and piece of mind.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:08 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by invertmast View Post
worst servos EVER! In my 25 years of being in this hobby, i have literally had 50! Of those servos either be DOA, quit while bench testing or have the worst centering capabilites of even the cheapest servos. I would never recommend someone use those. Spektrum has better digital metal gear servos for similar prices.
well you must be very unlucky or must be buying knock off as I have used them many time and never had a problem
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:24 PM
  #46  
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I dont use cheap parts on my planes, never made sence to do so!
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:41 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by invertmast View Post
You should research before you make statements like that.

JR servos are made in JAPAN
Futaba is made in Taiwan
spektrum/savox/align are all made in Malaysia

while with the high dollar servos you are paying for the name, you are also getting QC'd and spec'd internal components, customer service, Repeatable performance, local (ish) service centers, multiple sources to get replacements and piece of mind.
Well you might want to practice what you preach. I have a whole box of Spektrum servos lableled MADE IN CHINA all digital MG ball bearing servos of various model #"s
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:48 PM
  #48  
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To each his own - it is a hobby. A lot of people do things I don't understand, whether it has to do with airplanes or not. If they are enjoying life, that is what matters.

Airplanes I care about get components I believe in. Throw-around planes get whatever it takes to get them to fly. I prefer to have a small fleet of nice planes with quality parts.

Obviously this is turning into a debate of whether or not the name brands are worth the extra price. Everyone has different values. My values steer me toward the name brands.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:41 PM
  #49  
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Fifteen years ago I bought a German made gas engine. Only needed a new set of rings. About the same time I got 10 JR 8411's. I've had them rebuilt a few times for about $50 for the bunch each time. All this is in my forth plane now. Wish my airframes lasted as long.
Given that fact that I have used my 3-w and servos so long and cost so little to maintain, they are really free now.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:02 PM
  #50  
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Here is a challenge. Get your favorite $200 Futaba, JR, or whatever else receiver. Open it. Get your magnifying glasses out and write down all the part numbers of the ICs and major components. Go to Digikey or Mouser and add up what that really costs. You'll find that you've got aobut $3 worth of parts in your hand. Next, open an Orange receiver. You might be shocked to find that the components in it are mostly the same, and also about $3 worth of parts.

"Quality" dosn't have anything to do with what you are paying for your gear. To equate price with quality is foolish. I just hapily sold my JR 11X radio in favor of one costing 1/3 the price, and the "cheap" radio is so far beyond the JR in every way it is truly mind boggling. Time to wake up, people.

Oh, and as a former owner of a $130,000 german sedan (S600 Mercedes), you can have it. I'd take an American car over a German one any day of the week. The Merc was fantastic for three years- and then it started breaking. A lot. You put that much crap on a car and it's going to break. It's no surprise that the depreciation of a Mercedes is one of the worst in the world...
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