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I still dont get it, beautiful expensive planes, cheap parts!

Old 06-03-2014, 07:05 PM
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predman
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Default I still dont get it, beautiful expensive planes, cheap parts!

Just like the title says, I don't get it. Why some people buy these beautiful planes and put the cheapest engines, servos, recievers, and gear. I know we are all trying to save a few bucks and its nice to get a deal. But please! I have seen so many planes go down because of "orange recievers" "h-king 99c servos" I will only put stuff in my planes that are known to be somewhat reputable. I constantly maintain my planes with checking screws, clevises etc. Most of the planes at our field go down and are lost to inferior parts or electronics, such a shame! what do you guys think? here are pics of my latest mistresses, hangar9 30cc spitfire and the Kyosho .90 corsair!
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Last edited by predman; 06-03-2014 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:21 PM
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Wal Mart mentality.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:13 PM
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I bet they are the parts that come with the ARF kit. Its called experience
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:18 PM
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Chad Veich
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The thing I fail to understand is why so many people think the airframe itself has to be the most expensive part of the package. I don't know how many times I've heard guys say something like "I won't pay more for the retracts than what the whole airplane costs". Same for engines and radios.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:11 AM
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You might consider that they are doing the best they can with the budget they have to live within. People who love the hobby don't all have large incomes.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifer View Post

People who love the hobby don't all have large incomes.
To me, that's all the more reason to purchase quality items. Quality pieces to the puzzle should increase the chances of success, just as junk parts increase the chances of failure.

If I can't afford what I want, I save until I can buy it. I don't purchase an inferior item, just to get into the air.

Just one man's opinion.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:58 AM
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Some people just don't get this. I recently advised a newbie that I would not even use the cheap and nasty clevis that had just failed and cost him a model, on my throttles. The response I got was "It's alright for you, you can afford fancy clevises". I would have thought if you are struggling to afford a decent clevis, you really can't afford to use cheap clevises that can cost you a model?

In my opinion, when I am still flying my "expensive" models after several years, to me they become good value for my $$$.

Last edited by BOLTMAN; 06-04-2014 at 04:02 AM. Reason: Added last paragraph
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifer View Post
You might consider that they are doing the best they can with the budget they have to live within. People who love the hobby don't all have large incomes.
That is not an excuse for hardware and other low dollar items (under $100-150)

i have heads guys at local clubs make comments about me saying i must be loaded because i refuse to run any servo other than JR in my expensive models and how they are to expensive (agreed, but the quality and performance is worth it IMO) and how they cant afford it. This coming from the same guys who buy a new foamy every week because they trashed the one they bought last week.

When it comes to hardware, it pays to pay (especially considering the junk that comes with most "budget" arfs), when it comes to radio equipment and engines, there are good quality cheaper alternatives IF the buyer does the research to determine which these are and doesnt buy based on price alone.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:46 AM
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I know I strugle with the sevo issues, As its can be very hard to get your head around some times.

Exsample, Top Flight Gaint FW190 the manual states you only need 50oz servos per control serface, nothing about metal gear etc.

Then you read or talk to older guys who have been flying a very long time and they tell you metal gear servos have only been out for 12 years or so and that they used to fly there massive war birds with big gas motors with plastic gear servos.

But as times change and things get better peaples precption of what is ok or safe has changed.

If you now talk to any GS War bird guys they say you need a min of a 100oz metal gear servo for your GS War bird, and even more will tell you if there not digital your throwing away your money.

So lets use this exsample we need 9 control serface servos for the FW190

Lets use Futaba servos:

If you were Analog S3003 Standard wich are 57oz at 6v and are only $9.99 each will cost you $90 in servos

or if you were to use Analog S3306 MG (wich is what I use) at 124oz with MG wich are $31, this will cost you $279 in servos

or if you go digital like every one eles, S9155 Digital MG and at 192oz (as close to 124oz you can get) this will cost amazing $120 a servo at $1,080!!!!!

So what is you defishion of useing lower end servos?

I think you will agree most would not even consider putting $10 plastic gear futabs in there Gaint war bird, so thats why I chose the middle of the road with the S3305 or Hitec 645 ($30) becouse the cost of the upper end Digital servos I could afford buy another plane and retracts!


While yes I know some guys who use a lot of HK servos, and I do also to a point, some times there hard to beat, Im in love with these http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14830

At $32 they have been some of best servos I have had (and got jet buddys with over 300 flights with a falcon 120 with 22 pound turbine useing them), stuiped quick, and strong, while I looked and looked for a name brand servo that maches these spec I cant find one, I just order 2 of these last night for my new Carf Rooki 2 3d Jet plan on putting them on my thrust vecortoring set up as I need a strong and very quick (.07) servos.

I looked and looked and the closest I could find were a coreless Savox servo at $75 each and they were slower (.08)....

I guess what Im trying to say is, some times the hard part is paying 4X 5X as much for a small servo when HK is makeing servos that are quicker and stronger at 1/4 of the price and still makeing money, so who is ripping off who?

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Old 06-04-2014, 06:18 AM
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Expensive / cheap - what it means?

The single one resource no one can replenish is TIME !

What I mean is a "cheap" part that will fail, even on the ground, will steal us precious time to be replaced / rebuilt / re-engineered => it gets expensive quickly
OK, but how do we know which parts are reliable, easy to setup, compatible, etc.?

Unfortunately we don't. Expensive in $$ is more likely better, but not guaranteed better.
If an expensive set of retracts requires mods to the wing its not better.
I always put new servos on the tester for 30' prior to installing on a plane and I've had Hitec and Futaba's fail the test, and cheapo Turnigy's pass the test and fly reliably for years. I can get a warranty replacement on a brand-name 50$ servo, but it will cost me time and hassle.
With global manufacturing, branding and distribution the "cheap" and "expensive" items are probably manufactured at the same Asian factory, and the difference you pay is for marketing the big brand item!

Bottom line:
Higher retail price is no guarantee of quality or reliability. Plan before you build, ask questions to reliable sources (forums / flying mates - NOT hobby shops) and test, test, test before you fly.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:26 AM
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I installed standard 56oz analog nylon gear servos in my in my TF GS FW190, but I used dual ball bearing 5-pole servos that I have had for some time. They are not "cheap" servos, but they don't cost $75 or more a pop either.

I am not running a gas shaker as it seems like false economy to use an engine that uses cheap fuel yet it shakes the airframe so bad that it shortens the life if the airframe itself & requires lots of expensive upgrades to withstand the vibration. I will be running a hopped up methanol version of the FG-84R3 built on an FA-450R3 case.

Why would you need 100oz servos? That's over 6# of force. The control surfaces would never survive that much force.

I'm getting back into this after 15 years hiatus & yes, I am amazed @ what now is deemed necessary in GS warbirds.

All that being said, I DO NOT use sub-par quality parts. I would rather use a $30 67oz Hitec analog servo than a cheap 132oz digital Chinese knock-of.

Too many in America equate " bells & whistles" W/quality.

BTW, metal gear servos have been around for ages. They were always recommended for rudder & tailwheel applications where ground contact was/is likely. I did use high torque MG servos in those application.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by predman View Post
Just like the title says, I don't get it. Why some people buy these beautiful planes and put the cheapest engines, servos, recievers, and gear. I know we are all trying to save a few bucks and its nice to get a deal. But please! I have seen so many planes go down because of "orange recievers" "h-king 99c servos" I will only put stuff in my planes that are known to be somewhat reputable. I constantly maintain my planes with checking screws, clevises etc. Most of the planes at our field go down and are lost to inferior parts or electronics, such a shame! what do you guys think? here are pics of my latest mistresses, hangar9 30cc spitfire and the Kyosho .90 corsair!
If you look at a bell curve I'd say the vast majority of people in this hobby try to get by on the cheap. It's a hobby they want to have but don't want to afford. Instead of buying higher quality but less stuff they want more stuff at lower quality. Thus it drives the quality down throughout the hobby.

Look at reviews you read where they rave on about how great something is that's basically cheap junk.

It's gotten to the point where if something actually works properly and is decent quality it's considered "high end" when it should be considered what we basically expect.

I'm assembling an ARF and searched the net for builds on it to see what I could learn. This plane was $800 to the guy whose thread I read. He was complaining about the quality of the wheels. Now keep in mind this is a very complete 50cc kit that if I were to scratch build it I'd spend almost that much money just on materials and covering. Some of what I would have selected would be better than what came with it but overall everything included is useable and I am using it. But he felt for his money he should have gotten better wheels. The included wheels are perfectly useable and mostly covered by wheel pants. They're also a lot lighter than what he replaced them with. They are foam but should hold up for a few seasons at least.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad Veich View Post
The thing I fail to understand is why so many people think the airframe itself has to be the most expensive part of the package. I don't know how many times I've heard guys say something like "I won't pay more for the retracts than what the whole airplane costs". Same for engines and radios.
Same plane as I referenced in my last post. The overall build will cost roughly three to four times what I paid for the airframe. If I guy the muffler made for the plane it's $150 plus shipping. Haven't decided yet but the servos cost several hundred more than the airframe.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifer View Post
You might consider that they are doing the best they can with the budget they have to live within. People who love the hobby don't all have large incomes.
I have always tried to buy quality except when I needed (or wanted) something that a quality version just wasn't available. For a long time that's why I built smaller models. I could afford to put quality stuff in them. I couldn't afford to do the same with a giant scale model or even a .90 size model. So I didn't build them.

I was looking at expensive bicycles one day and the guy said, "Be honest with yourself - would you actually buy a bike like this?" Well, I always have in the past. I told him, "I can't afford a Ferrari, but I can afford this bike. It's just a matter of whether I want it or not."

TomCrump is right. Quality costs less than cheap.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mikes68charger View Post
I guess what Im trying to say is, some times the hard part is paying 4X 5X as much for a small servo when HK is makeing servos that are quicker and stronger at 1/4 of the price and still makeing money, so who is ripping off who?
I meant to say something about this in my first reply.

Another reason I think people go cheap isn't just to be cheap or because they can't afford it, but because they think that in some cases that what you're paying for is the name and not a better product.

I think there's something to that. But I also think you're paying for support. I've had no problems with brand name products I've purchased as far as support goes. Free replacements, free repairs, etc. I've never purchased anything from Hobby King only because I've only recently heard of them, but I see complaint after complaint about their service.

They might sell servos that cost 1/4 as much as Futaba and have the exact same specs. And they might work forever. Or they might not. But it seems most guys consider them to be disposable if they don't work because they don't expect Hobby King to do anything about it.

Now that's not me complaining about HK, but a summary of a lot of what I've read here and on other forums.

I plan to try some less expensive servos on less expensive planes to check them out. I don't need high end servos in every one of my planes.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:19 AM
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First of all, I've seen far more airplanes fall out of the sky due to failed Spektrum receivers than Orange receivers. Far more airplanes crash due to HiTech servos than Hobbyking servos. I've been using Hobbyking servos for over five years and have zero problems with them. I had two that were faulty out of the box, and those went back. If they work out of the box, they work, period.

Second, what makes you think your "high end" stuff isn't made in the same factory, on the same line as the "cheap" stuff. Arguably the best receiver available right now, the FrSky X series receiver (I know, you hate that too), is made by the same people who make most of the HobbyKing TX/RX stuff. I have an RCG engine on my 30cc gasser that I'll put up against any DA. Yes, the DA is much, much prettier, is made of beautiful billet and is five time stronger than it needs to be, but so what? (Yes, I know DA doesn't make a 30cc engine- it's just an illustration)

Just because people blame their "cheap" equipment for failures, more often, if you actually look at the crash, it's how an elevator was hinged, or forgotten bolts, poor placement of antennas, or shoddy workmanship while putting the ARF together that is to blame. Or maybe the wrong CG, or poor use of carbon fiber. Or use of a 50 oz.in. servo when 120 oz.in. is required. I've seen an idiot actually put his antennas wires inside a CF tube, thusly making his radio range zero. A guy I know just lost a $3500 120CC Extra equipped with HiTechs all around, a DA-120, triple redundant 123s, some sort of power distribution box monstrosity that cost more than my wife's car, and the latest Futaba Serial Bus receiver- all because he had both antennas pointing the same direction. He blamed everything under the sun because the airplane "passed" a range check, but his ignorance of how diversity works cost him a beautiful airplane, not to mention his dignity.

Go on wasting your money if it gives you piece of mind. But don't poo poo on us who choose to be more efficient with our wallets. Yes, there is plenty of crap out there, but there are more good products available at wonderful prices than crap- you just need to educate yourself so you can tell the difference. I've got 11 airplanes currently in my hangar, all with those "inferior" products you mention throughout, and I've never, ever had an issue with any of them. Understanding specifications is crucial in choosing your equipment. Most of you guys simply know that, for example, a HiTech XXXXX servo works on a 50CC airplane, so you buy that specific HiTech servo. If you actually pay attention to that HiTechXXXX servo's specifications, you could get a coreless, digital, titanium geared servo that is superior in every conceivable way for 1/3 the price... (and made in the same factory, most likely...)
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:22 AM
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Can you get good quality for a low price? Which is the better value...a $30K Ford Fusion or a $60K German sedan?

I guess I would just be stupid to say that I have never had any problem with my Orange Rx's?
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by c131frdave View Post
First of all, I've seen far more airplanes fall out of the sky due to failed Spektrum receivers than Orange receivers. Far more airplanes crash due to HiTech servos than Hobbyking servos. I've been using Hobbyking servos for over five years and have zero problems with them. I had two that were faulty out of the box, and those went back. If they work out of the box, they work, period.
It stands to reason you'll see more failures with stuff that's used more. I'll bet there are tons more Hitec servos out there than Hobby King.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150 View Post
I would rather use a $30 67oz Hitec analog servo than a cheap 132oz digital Chinese knock-of.
You don't want foreign servos? Where do you think Hitec servos are made?
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:29 AM
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Its likely a combination of things several have mentioned.. experience, knowledge of the parts and components, disposable income, personality and so forth. Its really in some ways not much different than giving one a choice of 10,000.00 or 2 cents a day compounded daily...

At the end of the day, the airframe is pretty much the cheapest outlay, at least its been for me in my experience. I prefer to fly quality, proven gear. I don't fly a particular servo because I think company ABC is the best or such, but typically because others have had a high rate of success with that brand. Doesn't mean it won't fail, but means that the odds of it failing are higher. Same with all the rest of the parts. I prefer DA, have no problems with DLE, but there are a few I'd never buy, though they might be cheaper. Not worth it to me to try and save 10.00, then spend 50.00 of time re-inventing the wheel getting the damn thing-a-majig to work right. Some items may be made at the same factory, but there can also be different materials and quality controls applied as well.

Guess you could say you have to spend 700 to not bang up a 500 frame.. ha!!!! ..there's a bit of truth to that. Am not going to spend 1500.00 on an airframe then stick a 30.00 orange receiver in and think I'm saving a buck. That's penny-wise and pound foolish.. Maybe in smaller foamies and such I'm not so discerning, but will still stick with the brands I prefer. But most of what I build/assemble are 1/5th -1/3rd, so its not unreal to have 2K or more wrapped up in one, and I'm not going to drill it in because some cheap battery failed or such. Would I ever get my money back out of it? HELL NO... but if you're in this hobby as some kind of investment, good luck. These aren't firearms, but more like new cars.. drive it off the lot and you just lost 10 grand.. Have made some stupid decisions regarding RC purchases.. think most of anyone involved for a few years may have as well at one time or another, so in a way, yes.. you can buy experience! Ha!!!! ... in the end though.. cheap does not necessarily equal good.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by predman View Post
Just like the title says, I don't get it. Why some people buy these beautiful planes and put the cheapest engines, servos, recievers, and gear. I know we are all trying to save a few bucks and its nice to get a deal. But please! I have seen so many planes go down because of "orange recievers" "h-king 99c servos" I will only put stuff in my planes that are known to be somewhat reputable. I constantly maintain my planes with checking screws, clevises etc. Most of the planes at our field go down and are lost to inferior parts or electronics, such a shame! what do you guys think? here are pics of my latest mistresses, hangar9 30cc spitfire and the Kyosho .90 corsair!
+2
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:08 AM
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Ive heard and have friends that are of the mindset that a $30-70 xxx brand servo is just as good as a higher priced servo of a name brand. While this can be true (if they all work) what you dont realize is the difference in performance between the servos. If you have two exact airplanes (say a Cub) the cheaper servos will work just as well as the most expensive servo on the market. Slower flying models can have a very poor performance servo and you never really realize it.

Now take those exact same servos and place them in a high performance pattern airplane. You will quickly see that the performance of each brand of servo makes a Huge difference in how the airplane flies. One servo brand may not center in the same position everytime it is moved, it may not have the static holding power away from neutral either.

It took me seeing and experiencing this exact scenario before i realized that yes, a more expensive servo is the better choice in some situations. Am i going to may $80 for a jr digital micro servo for a $20 foamy model.. No, but i will pay the extra $50+ per servo for one of my jets or high performance (or giant scale) prop models.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150 View Post
Wal Mart mentality.
whats wrong with walmart, its people with attitudes like yours that give this hobby and forum a bad name. the most expensive is not always the best, you need to research what others have been using and make a informed decision on what is best for you.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:22 AM
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I have the topflite fw-190 GS and I am going to be using HITEC 5645mg digital servos. and a DLE 55 RA.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:28 AM
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Chances are , if you buy quality stuff , it will last longer then your RC experience in life.
Thats not to say we don't " upgrade". But all my old quality junk still works. That's up to me to
use it. Chances are not likely. But I have been running Hitec digitalis for years. If the plane goes
down they will get used again.
A airframe is worth crap with out the reliable stuff.
I tend to stay away from Hobby King Period !
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