*Seagull Westland Lysander*
05-31-2018, 02:40 PM
#301
Congratulations Chris!
The flight sounds like she's still a little nose heavy.
I love flying my Lizzie! If you saw the video from my 1st flight you can see that I could easily slow it down and soft land using my 23x10 on my Saito FG60-R3.
For the second flight I used a little flaps for takeoff and she jumped off the ground in less than 10 feet.
Welcome to the family!
Scott
The flight sounds like she's still a little nose heavy.
I love flying my Lizzie! If you saw the video from my 1st flight you can see that I could easily slow it down and soft land using my 23x10 on my Saito FG60-R3.
For the second flight I used a little flaps for takeoff and she jumped off the ground in less than 10 feet.
Welcome to the family!
Scott
11-10-2018, 03:44 AM
#303
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Well I test flew my Lizzy recently and all went well. It's equipped a DLE 55RA, Jeti R14 receiver and a Cortex Gyro. The kit supplied landing gear was not used in favour of the TNT aftermarket gear. The stabilizer was not altered in any way and I balanced the model about 15 mm aft of where the wing leading edge meets the fuselage. I didn't need to add any nose weight to get the balance as the cowl incorporated a Frank Tiano Dummy engine which in itself was enough weight to do the trick.
The female wing tubes as supplied by the kit were so flimsy that I decided to use the Kit supplied Aluminum spar cut into three and permanently glued into the wings and center section.. I ordered a 5/8 inches OD Aluminum tube 24 inches long from TNT as the spar which neatly slides into the wing and center section. My control throws as as follows
Ailerons = 20 mm
Rudder = 30 mm
Elevator = 30 mm
Flaps Takeoff is 10 degrees
Flaps Landing is 45 degrees.
Expo on the Jeti system was set at 40% A little up trim was needed to get it to fly hands off with the kit supplied fuel tank full . For future flights only half a tank is required which I think will eliminate the up trim.. Some down trim will be added to mix the elevators with the flaps as the model wants to pitch up with flaps.
I have attached the Video from the flight. Note the original upper wing roundels were removed as the colour was incorrect and the proper roundels installed. The model was then clear coated with KlassKote 2 part epoxy Highgloss.
The model has plenty of power and I looking forward to next year as the weather here in Ontario has really taken a turn . It snowed today. Arggggg.
The female wing tubes as supplied by the kit were so flimsy that I decided to use the Kit supplied Aluminum spar cut into three and permanently glued into the wings and center section.. I ordered a 5/8 inches OD Aluminum tube 24 inches long from TNT as the spar which neatly slides into the wing and center section. My control throws as as follows
Ailerons = 20 mm
Rudder = 30 mm
Elevator = 30 mm
Flaps Takeoff is 10 degrees
Flaps Landing is 45 degrees.
Expo on the Jeti system was set at 40% A little up trim was needed to get it to fly hands off with the kit supplied fuel tank full . For future flights only half a tank is required which I think will eliminate the up trim.. Some down trim will be added to mix the elevators with the flaps as the model wants to pitch up with flaps.
I have attached the Video from the flight. Note the original upper wing roundels were removed as the colour was incorrect and the proper roundels installed. The model was then clear coated with KlassKote 2 part epoxy Highgloss.
The model has plenty of power and I looking forward to next year as the weather here in Ontario has really taken a turn . It snowed today. Arggggg.
01-31-2019, 04:34 AM
#308
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Here's a picture of the Westland Lysander
Yes but the Iowa City one is a lot closer
it's been awhile since I've been on here how do I get pictures to show up on here
thanks Tom
Last edited by ttmv321; 01-31-2019 at 05:00 AM.
01-31-2019, 07:39 AM
#310
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I went to online metals and could not find a 19mm alum tube. The closest was 19.05mm!
Good to know where to get a replacement. The tube that came with my kit is an incredibly tight fit in the fuselage. Very difficult to get through there. I'm thinking that 19 mm as opposed to 19.1 might work better? anyone else have a problem with the tube? I've sanded the tube AND the socket and it's still very very tight.
BTW, all this talk about CG has me confused. (easily done, btw) Rather than 'x' further back, etc. can someone just give me a proper CG measurement in inches?
Thanks.
BTW, all this talk about CG has me confused. (easily done, btw) Rather than 'x' further back, etc. can someone just give me a proper CG measurement in inches?
Thanks.
01-31-2019, 04:09 PM
#311
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inside that would be a good reason to get out and check it out
thanks Tom
02-03-2019, 04:57 AM
#312
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I did not get my lysander sold at the Swap Meet so I was thinking how about taking it to the warbird fly in in Cedar Rapids Iowa is anybody know what date that is.
I decided to sell it without the servos in it I'm asking $500
thanks Tom
I decided to sell it without the servos in it I'm asking $500
thanks Tom
02-04-2019, 06:31 AM
#313
Tom,
I'm sorry I could not make it down to the Iowa City swap meet to see your Lizzie.
I was auctioneering in Minneapolis. I sold a Byron's AT6 complete w/ G62 for $1150.
We had a good time!
Let me know when the Cedar Rapids swap meet it and I'll try to come down!
Scott
I'm sorry I could not make it down to the Iowa City swap meet to see your Lizzie.
I was auctioneering in Minneapolis. I sold a Byron's AT6 complete w/ G62 for $1150.
We had a good time!
Let me know when the Cedar Rapids swap meet it and I'll try to come down!
Scott
02-18-2019, 09:45 AM
#314
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pls info
Hello fellow Lizzie builders,
Before I build a new aircraft, I check for information regarding the aircraft both full size and models. Quite a lot of information is available for the Seagull Lysander and most mention these faults:
1. CG position is too far forward.
2. Stab incidence is wrong.
3. Cowl is too long.
4. Undercarriage is soft.
Reading up on the real aircraft I found that it had 2 main issues:
1. Was a temperamental engine that would quit if incorrectly handled when opening the throttle
2. The adjustable tail plane had to be set correctly for the mode of flight as the elevators were not that powerful.
Most of the build blogs I saw were powered with 60cc and larger motors and a friend asked me to test his 5 Cylinder Magnum four stroke, so this was the main reason for me buying the Lysander as I thought it would be a great match. On reading the blogs I was concerned about the CG and incidence issues so I decided that I would test fly the airframe on Super Tigre and once sorted move on to the 5 cylinder. I first thought I would test fly with a 45cc but once I had a good look at the kit I thought that that much power was not needed and a 3250 would be plenty.
Building the airframe was quite easy with the construction and fittings all being good and all the supplied parts and fittings being used. The overall design was very good and covering was excellent. A few parts construction were not clear, I had to cut slots in the wheel pants/covers to clear the strut attachments. I added ply to the rib for the elevator servo mountings and made a 6mm ply wedge to change the geometry of the tail wheel as it slanted forward not back. I also strengthened the wheel pants/ covers with 163 gram cloth and epoxy to make them stronger in the areas that I thought needed it. Epoxy was also added to the forward fuselage to fuel proof and strengthen the undercarriage area. I found that the wing could be moved up and down on the leading edge as the hole for the anti-rotation dowel was elongated. I made a template and added a second dowel to the rear of the root rib to prevent this play. When doing this I had the wing with the most positive incidence that was available.
I mounted the ST 3250 that my son had been given and found to my dismay that it would not run, I was faced with to options, one was to use another 3250 that I was not happy with or use a 30 year old reliable 30cc ST. I changed motors and test ran the 30 which seemed strong and reliable. My main question was now would it be enough as I fly at 5500 feet above sea level so this affects lift and engine performance. I reasoned with myself that a ¼ J3 would fly well on a .90 two stroke or a .120 four stroke, this was the same amount of wing so allowing for more drag and higher weight the 30cc should be enough power.
A local modeller posted pictures of a Seagull Lysander that he test flew a week before and I contacted him to query what they had done and also what the aircraft flew like. They had not changed the incidence on the stab but had moved the C.G. 10mm behind the leading edge at the root of the wing. Flight performance was great and over powered with a twin cylinder 60cc motor. I got my aircraft to the airworthy stage so I could test fly to see for myself what the performance was like as the varied reports do cast doubts of the flying qualities and the fact that I have never seen a previous Lysander model in my 45+ years of modelling seemed to indicate that it would not be an easy flying aircraft. I balanced the model on my fingertips at around 10mm on the leading edge and did not change the incidence of the stab.
Sunday morning early I picked up my son and we went to the flying field and assembled the aircraft before there was even enough light to fly. Range check done with the motor running just to ensure all was good, final control checks done and time to see if it flies! Take off was brisk and climb out was brisk and quite a bit of up trim needed but all other controls were fine. I throttled back to less than a 1/3 throttle for some circuits but found it hard to slow down, the Lysander was too fast for scale even with low power. I let Byron fly it and he climbed and did a stall test and it just slows down to a ridiculously slow speed with no bad habits. Byron also had a problem slowing it down so we landed and changed the prop from a 20x8 Top Flight to a Master Airscrew 20x6. Next flight was a bit better speed wise and still plenty of power for climbs. Landing was a little fast as Byron complained that he ran out of up but had not given power to help and had not used flaps. I elected to take it home to ensure all was still good before flying again.
So, what am I changing? Nothing so far, I want to fly it a little more before I decided what is needed. I think landing with a little flap is a good idea as it is more lift and drag so you can have a little power to help the elevators. If we are honest and you want to design a great flying aircraft it will not look anything like a Lysander, high aspect ratio wings with lots of taper and a low aspect ratio tail plane with lots of taper are not what you would expect on an aircraft. As this is a scale model, that is what you have to have so the challenge of flying scale aircraft is flying it in a scale manner. Each aircraft will have its quirks and that is what I enjoy is learning to live with them and that would mean fly a Lysander slow and gentle. If you feel the need for speed build a Mustang or Spitfire but then do not expect them to fly slowly.
This is a great aircraft that I look forward to flying for many years and commend Seagull for producing such a great unusual aircraft, I love it!
Chris
Before I build a new aircraft, I check for information regarding the aircraft both full size and models. Quite a lot of information is available for the Seagull Lysander and most mention these faults:
1. CG position is too far forward.
2. Stab incidence is wrong.
3. Cowl is too long.
4. Undercarriage is soft.
Reading up on the real aircraft I found that it had 2 main issues:
1. Was a temperamental engine that would quit if incorrectly handled when opening the throttle
2. The adjustable tail plane had to be set correctly for the mode of flight as the elevators were not that powerful.
Most of the build blogs I saw were powered with 60cc and larger motors and a friend asked me to test his 5 Cylinder Magnum four stroke, so this was the main reason for me buying the Lysander as I thought it would be a great match. On reading the blogs I was concerned about the CG and incidence issues so I decided that I would test fly the airframe on Super Tigre and once sorted move on to the 5 cylinder. I first thought I would test fly with a 45cc but once I had a good look at the kit I thought that that much power was not needed and a 3250 would be plenty.
Building the airframe was quite easy with the construction and fittings all being good and all the supplied parts and fittings being used. The overall design was very good and covering was excellent. A few parts construction were not clear, I had to cut slots in the wheel pants/covers to clear the strut attachments. I added ply to the rib for the elevator servo mountings and made a 6mm ply wedge to change the geometry of the tail wheel as it slanted forward not back. I also strengthened the wheel pants/ covers with 163 gram cloth and epoxy to make them stronger in the areas that I thought needed it. Epoxy was also added to the forward fuselage to fuel proof and strengthen the undercarriage area. I found that the wing could be moved up and down on the leading edge as the hole for the anti-rotation dowel was elongated. I made a template and added a second dowel to the rear of the root rib to prevent this play. When doing this I had the wing with the most positive incidence that was available.
I mounted the ST 3250 that my son had been given and found to my dismay that it would not run, I was faced with to options, one was to use another 3250 that I was not happy with or use a 30 year old reliable 30cc ST. I changed motors and test ran the 30 which seemed strong and reliable. My main question was now would it be enough as I fly at 5500 feet above sea level so this affects lift and engine performance. I reasoned with myself that a ¼ J3 would fly well on a .90 two stroke or a .120 four stroke, this was the same amount of wing so allowing for more drag and higher weight the 30cc should be enough power.
A local modeller posted pictures of a Seagull Lysander that he test flew a week before and I contacted him to query what they had done and also what the aircraft flew like. They had not changed the incidence on the stab but had moved the C.G. 10mm behind the leading edge at the root of the wing. Flight performance was great and over powered with a twin cylinder 60cc motor. I got my aircraft to the airworthy stage so I could test fly to see for myself what the performance was like as the varied reports do cast doubts of the flying qualities and the fact that I have never seen a previous Lysander model in my 45+ years of modelling seemed to indicate that it would not be an easy flying aircraft. I balanced the model on my fingertips at around 10mm on the leading edge and did not change the incidence of the stab.
Sunday morning early I picked up my son and we went to the flying field and assembled the aircraft before there was even enough light to fly. Range check done with the motor running just to ensure all was good, final control checks done and time to see if it flies! Take off was brisk and climb out was brisk and quite a bit of up trim needed but all other controls were fine. I throttled back to less than a 1/3 throttle for some circuits but found it hard to slow down, the Lysander was too fast for scale even with low power. I let Byron fly it and he climbed and did a stall test and it just slows down to a ridiculously slow speed with no bad habits. Byron also had a problem slowing it down so we landed and changed the prop from a 20x8 Top Flight to a Master Airscrew 20x6. Next flight was a bit better speed wise and still plenty of power for climbs. Landing was a little fast as Byron complained that he ran out of up but had not given power to help and had not used flaps. I elected to take it home to ensure all was still good before flying again.
So, what am I changing? Nothing so far, I want to fly it a little more before I decided what is needed. I think landing with a little flap is a good idea as it is more lift and drag so you can have a little power to help the elevators. If we are honest and you want to design a great flying aircraft it will not look anything like a Lysander, high aspect ratio wings with lots of taper and a low aspect ratio tail plane with lots of taper are not what you would expect on an aircraft. As this is a scale model, that is what you have to have so the challenge of flying scale aircraft is flying it in a scale manner. Each aircraft will have its quirks and that is what I enjoy is learning to live with them and that would mean fly a Lysander slow and gentle. If you feel the need for speed build a Mustang or Spitfire but then do not expect them to fly slowly.
This is a great aircraft that I look forward to flying for many years and commend Seagull for producing such a great unusual aircraft, I love it!
Chris
can you confirm that with a 30cc 2 stroke it will fly well?
I'm Planning to use a ngh gf38 cc 4 stroke that have similar power to a dle 30/35 2 stroke, using regularly 20x8 prop, and 20x6 propeller without problems
Also for me it's normal to assume that if a high wing plane like 1/4 cub will fly great (280-290 cm of wing) also the lysander will do the job.....
normally I use the ngh GF 38 4 stroke on a 205 cm P51 that weight 7-8 kgs
thanks in advance and please sorry my bad english writing
happy flying times
Marco - Torino Italy
01-30-2020, 03:48 AM
#317
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what do you have going on this weekend Scott this Saturday is the Iowa City Aerohawks swap meet again at the Marriott right off of Interstate 80 in Coralville Iowa if you have some time come on down. I didn't know you did auctioneer are auctioneer is taking chemo treatments so we're not having an auction this year. All look into the swap meet for Cedar Rapids and let you know thanks Tom
01-30-2020, 04:25 AM
#318
what do you have going on this weekend Scott this Saturday is the Iowa City Aerohawks swap meet again at the Marriott right off of Interstate 80 in Coralville Iowa if you have some time come on down. I didn't know you did auctioneer are auctioneer is taking chemo treatments so we're not having an auction this year. All look into the swap meet for Cedar Rapids and let you know thanks Tom
I'd love to come but I'm hosting the TCRC 44th Annual RC Auction Saturday. I've been doing this for 35 years.
I'm a hack civilian auctioneer when needed. We typically have 4 members who are not shy of the microphone that get up and work to sell the goods.
We've typically run an average of 56 seconds per item and start at 0930 and end when the last item crosses the stage.
Sometimes we're done at 4 pm sometimes as late as 7 pm.
This year we have a couple of volunteers from the Crow River RC club who are auctioneers in their day jobs. Hopefully we can learn from them!
Scott
Last edited by Fly2XS; 01-30-2020 at 04:31 AM.
07-18-2021, 03:12 PM
#319
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After some more flight I found she has a lot of adverse yaw effect so I mixed the rudder control to coordinate during the aileron turn and also decrease the down position both side of the aileron to reduce induce drag during turn, she flow easier.
I move CG 1 inch rearward from Seagull manual and I found she performed better performance during my landing but the elevator still in a bit up position by trim. So I corrected her angle of incident 5mm higher from the original hole which is around 5 degree increase and now I can remove the up position trim to neutral position.
Hope those will help all you guy fly your Lysander well
I move CG 1 inch rearward from Seagull manual and I found she performed better performance during my landing but the elevator still in a bit up position by trim. So I corrected her angle of incident 5mm higher from the original hole which is around 5 degree increase and now I can remove the up position trim to neutral position.
Hope those will help all you guy fly your Lysander well
08-24-2021, 01:57 PM
#320
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OK, I have this airplane and I am in the final stages of assembly. It seems to me, after reading this and other threads on this airplane that the correct CG is all over the place! some say 1" further back than the manual calls for. Others say 2" back. Has anyone DEFINITELY found the CORRECT CG for the Seagul Lysander? I'm getting nervous. Haha.
Last edited by grantmNZ; 08-25-2021 at 01:56 PM.
08-25-2021, 08:08 AM
#321
Moving the CG back to where I’ve flown it means adjusting your balance. I’ve added tail weight to get mine right with my Saito FG60-R3.
it flies very well with the balance point 15-25mm back from where the leading edge meets the fuse. I’ve had (2) Lizzies with that balance point and I get easy take offs and soft landings.
it flies very well with the balance point 15-25mm back from where the leading edge meets the fuse. I’ve had (2) Lizzies with that balance point and I get easy take offs and soft landings.
Last edited by Fly2XS; 08-25-2021 at 08:13 AM.
11-16-2021, 04:39 PM
#322
Any updates on flying these models?
I will be assembling one soon.
So far in my notes:
1. Enlarge servo pockets for tail group
2. Reinforce spare
3. Cg at 15mm behind leading edge.
4. Shorten cowl
5. Magnetic latching canopy
6. Reinforce landing gear
I will be using a radial engine in the build if that makes any difference.
I will be assembling one soon.
So far in my notes:
1. Enlarge servo pockets for tail group
2. Reinforce spare
3. Cg at 15mm behind leading edge.
4. Shorten cowl
5. Magnetic latching canopy
6. Reinforce landing gear
I will be using a radial engine in the build if that makes any difference.
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Fly2XS (11-17-2021)
11-16-2021, 05:13 PM
#323
My Feedback: (18)
Any updates on flying these models?
I will be assembling one soon.
So far in my notes:
1. Enlarge servo pockets for tail group
2. Reinforce spare
3. Cg at 15mm behind leading edge.
4. Shorten cowl
5. Magnetic latching canopy
6. Reinforce landing gear
I will be using a radial engine in the build if that makes any difference.
I will be assembling one soon.
So far in my notes:
1. Enlarge servo pockets for tail group
2. Reinforce spare
3. Cg at 15mm behind leading edge.
4. Shorten cowl
5. Magnetic latching canopy
6. Reinforce landing gear
I will be using a radial engine in the build if that makes any difference.
In addition to your list I would add:
1. Get the Phoenix Lysander tail wheel. It looks a bit more scale and performs much, much better. Tail sits higher and the strut doesn't collapse under the weight of the tail the way the provided tail wheel does.
2. Invisible cowl mounting. It is easy to "ditch" the through cowl, exposed bolts, in favor of putting the bolts in from the cowl flap area. Nice and tidy...
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Fly2XS (11-17-2021)
11-16-2021, 05:46 PM
#324
I am not sure why you think you need to reinforce the spar -- I have many flights on mine and I simply use the wing tube and struts provided... I did reinforce my landing gear by tying the two gear legs together with aluminum flat stock. I have sort of bent one leg, but in its defense -- it was a crap landing! Mine normally lands quite nicely and the stock gear legs work fine.
In addition to your list I would add:
1. Get the Phoenix Lysander tail wheel. It looks a bit more scale and performs much, much better. Tail sits higher and the strut doesn't collapse under the weight of the tail the way the provided tail wheel does.
2. Invisible cowl mounting. It is easy to "ditch" the through cowl, exposed bolts, in favor of putting the bolts in from the cowl flap area. Nice and tidy...
In addition to your list I would add:
1. Get the Phoenix Lysander tail wheel. It looks a bit more scale and performs much, much better. Tail sits higher and the strut doesn't collapse under the weight of the tail the way the provided tail wheel does.
2. Invisible cowl mounting. It is easy to "ditch" the through cowl, exposed bolts, in favor of putting the bolts in from the cowl flap area. Nice and tidy...
Thank you for the other tips. The cowl flap mounting sounds great and I will look for the Phoenix tail wheel.
12-04-2021, 07:00 PM
#325
I received the kit and have started installing servos. I am looking at the tail group and am very tempted to put minis in. Especially for the elevator halves. A 225mg is good for 67oz/in and a 5245 is good for 76. The combined torque for the elevators would be quite acceptable.
I will look at making a standard servo fit but there may not be much material left.
I will look at making a standard servo fit but there may not be much material left.