Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Warbirds and Warplanes
Reload this Page >

1/6 1/4 P-51D fokkerc.com

Notices
RC Warbirds and Warplanes Discuss rc warbirds and warplanes in this forum.

1/6 1/4 P-51D fokkerc.com

Old 07-02-2021, 05:45 AM
  #1  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default 1/6 1/4 P-51D fokkerc.com

Hello guys.
We have new custom project for P-51 D in two sizes , 1/6 and 1/4 scale.
We will use original factory plans from rolls A-Z
Will make the model near to the real one as near as I can





Old 07-02-2021, 05:48 AM
  #2  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

some progres of our work on Mustang P-51 D








Old 07-02-2021, 05:50 AM
  #3  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Almost done with the correct shape of the plane. The last we have to make the canopy who is not so difficult














Old 07-02-2021, 05:53 AM
  #4  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Canopy is ready .

The shape is ready , 100% like the original.

Next step is to cut the ribs.














The following users liked this post:
Falcon XR (07-03-2021)
Old 07-02-2021, 05:55 AM
  #5  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Here is the ready the horizontal stab and tail wheel and some wing construction





Old 07-02-2021, 05:56 AM
  #6  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Here is the finished 1/6 scale model made by micro films 1/6 scale 187cm wingspan

1/6 scale 187cm wingspan

Engine Saito FA-150B 4-Stroke 25.06 cc : https://rcdiesel.eu/products/s…ngyj7...MB2URPVoFOfWno

Main landing gears Electron ER-30 eVo : https://www.sunshine-modellbau…lvPLS...cBIAwqf78x5XxQ

Tail landing gear Robart 160LWC

Have many 3D print details like the tips of the main wing , HS tips, tip of the vertical stab, the fillet of the front part of the vertical stab, the canopy frame and aircooler inder the wing
One piece wing for 1/6 scale














The following users liked this post:
Falcon XR (07-03-2021)
Old 07-02-2021, 10:20 AM
  #7  
Chris Nicastro
My Feedback: (3)
 
Chris Nicastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID
Posts: 3,058
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Awesome! Cool to see this coming from you!
A couple of things come to mind about the Mustang as a model I hope you have considered. The most problematic thing I’ve seen and experienced is the position of the gear and axle being incorrect. Since you have the factory drawings I hope your able to locate the axle in the right location so the model isn’t prone to nosing over so easily like most Mustang models do.
The other issue has to do with the wing and Mustangs are notorious for snap rolling when they are pushed hard. This is especially true when the wing has been made thin to look scale. It looks like you have modeled the real wing airfoil and I caution against that because that airfoil was not meant for the slower speeds our models fly at. I love scale models and accuracy but here is where it has to be functional and practical so if you haven’t already done so maybe another airfoil, Selig?, and some minor, 1-2 degree, wing tip washout would be great.
I highly encourage you to try a couple of wings on a test plane and see what I’m talking about for yourself.
You can always fake the distinctive airfoil with the wingtip cap that looks like the original but hides the fact that it’s modified with some blending.

This is my favorite warbird and I hope you’re able to make a composite kit with nice accurate skin details as you do! Looking forward to your progress!
Old 07-02-2021, 11:49 AM
  #8  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Thank you very much for your coment Chris!
So , yes I made all like the original plane, the angles of the landing gear , the tail gear also . The airfoils are original with washout 2 degrees in the tip and 1 in the root , 1 degrees in the vertical stab to left and the engine angle down 1.5degrees, the HS 0,5 degrees
For composite model I am not sure yet , I prefer to finish the ME 262 firts , then we have many custom orders of models





Last edited by fokke; 07-03-2021 at 12:05 AM.
Old 07-02-2021, 06:40 PM
  #9  
Chris Nicastro
My Feedback: (3)
 
Chris Nicastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID
Posts: 3,058
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

I see what you’ve done there and I caution you about setting that airfoil to a positive 2 degrees at the tip. That would be prone to stalling. Also the tip airfoil should be negative to increase the angle of attack range and prolong the stall envelope. If you use a semi-symmetrical airfoil at the tip from the Selig range it would be much safer and provide a broader speed and stall envelope. You can set it to a negative 2 degrees and the airfoil will not have any issues in level flight. When the AOA increases the tip will have an extra 2 degrees before losing lift. The root can be set at zero. The root airfoil can be symmetrical and blend out to semi-symmetrical with no adverse appearance or performance. You get the best of all worlds, deeper wheel bay where it’s needed, thicker wing section for the gear mechanism and the full performance range a scale model needs with a margin of safety.
I designed a wing program for a product line of 1/7 and 1/5 RC fighters many years ago and my research led me to this sort of conclusion. I had several samples made and they flew great. Sadly the company couldn’t get the product line going or we would have had very nice composite models to compete against Top Flite years ago!

Food for thought…
Old 08-01-2021, 02:11 PM
  #10  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Now , what I am done to the monent with 1/6 scale:

I start to print the some details like canopy frame and air intake under the wing






Hi guys, today I finish the laser cut filer for the 1/6 scale model ot Mustang. In this time I print the forst details like the canopy frame , airintake under the main wing. I have to finish the paper plans , to include the engine of the model in the plans , the retracts and to print the tip of the vertical stab, the tips of wing and horizontal stab also ind the filet front the vertical stab







The following users liked this post:
Chris Nicastro (08-03-2021)
Old 08-02-2021, 12:49 PM
  #11  
Chad Veich
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Surely I am missing something here and you have not designed wash-in into the wing rather than wash-out.


PS - After further review it does appear that you have the wing washed in instead of out. That will never work Fokke.

Last edited by Chad Veich; 08-02-2021 at 12:51 PM.
The following users liked this post:
fokke (08-02-2021)
Old 08-02-2021, 12:54 PM
  #12  
Chad Veich
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Here are the wing ribs for my 1/4 scale Mustang showing the proper wash-out.



Old 08-02-2021, 02:06 PM
  #13  
fokke
Thread Starter
 
fokke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sofia, BULGARIA
Posts: 1,778
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Hey Chad, it is interesting how you wtite here in this forum and in other forums in my thread how your design and model work and mine would not work. I do not think is this correct as position and behavior

In fact I made both sizes of my P-51 D Mustang as original , so the wing is exactly like the real one, if this is correct all we will know very soon. The wash-in or wash-out of my project I wrote in my topic so you can read what design I made of the wing !

In the real one P-51 the wing is in the root +1 derees and in the tip + 2 degrees in mine model is the same, so I do not understand what you want to say me ...................

Your desition to make your wing with - degrese is your desition , and I do not comment , becaue is your job , SO I hope you make the same

Last edited by fokke; 08-02-2021 at 02:10 PM.
Old 08-02-2021, 03:13 PM
  #14  
Chad Veich
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

I do not remember commenting on your design in any other thread but I will gladly refrain from commenting further. Good luck with your Mustang.

Last edited by Chad Veich; 08-02-2021 at 03:19 PM.
Old 08-03-2021, 08:47 AM
  #15  
L Smalley
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Hi Fokke, well it is unusual but i guess the guys and girls at North American knew more about aero dynamics than i ever will, so if thats what they did then thats what they did and it should be okay, i will be watching with interest .
Old 08-03-2021, 12:44 PM
  #16  
Chris Nicastro
My Feedback: (3)
 
Chris Nicastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID
Posts: 3,058
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Heres the basic problem. The Mustang wing was design to fly at 0.8 Mach or 80% the speed of sound. The shape of the airfoil is designed to move the shockwave back further along the wing to keep the air flow attached to achieve this high speed, which by the way a Mustang holds the speed record at 554.69mph, Voodoo.
This doesn't translate to 1/6 or 1/4 scale models flying under 200mph. The wing has to be different to work in this speed range and for the load of the plane and other factors. Simply miniaturizing the Mustang wing and expecting it to fly great is just not going to work well. As a business this will lead to customer dissatisfaction and complaints when the plane has poor and possibly unsafe flying characteristics.
So why not learn from past mistakes made by others and make a proper wing for the hobby? Not hard to do, plenty of info and if I owned a laser cutter Id be making like 10 wings and trying them out on a test mule plane. This is not a museum scale model project where the pane has to be 100% accurate. In terms of the outline in 3 views yes make it 100% accurate but make it work! Nobody will pull out a 1/6 or 1/4 airfoil template and grade your wing! BUT! every Mustang fan will be watching to see how well it works and they talk to each other.
Old 08-03-2021, 12:47 PM
  #17  
Chris Nicastro
My Feedback: (3)
 
Chris Nicastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID
Posts: 3,058
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Fokke I appreciate and admire your talent and passion for the hobby. I only wish you the best success for all your projects.
Old 08-03-2021, 05:14 PM
  #18  
Chad Veich
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Brian Taylor, Dave Platt, and Jim Meister have all designed Mustangs with what they claim are scale airfoils. I've not compared them to the actual Mustang airfoils but they all certainly look very close to right at a glance. All of them have been built and flown extensively over the years and seem to fly just fine. Jerry Bates recently released a 1/5 scale P-51B with a scale wing that has been successfully flown by numerous people as well, although it is new enough that I have not heard much about how well it flies. Have not heard that it flies poorly though. Strangely enough, the BT design has a great reputation for being a good flyer and is the smallest of them all at 69 inch span. In my opinion the airfoil is just not that critical (within reason of course) and building light and straight has far more impact on performance than airfoil selection. My .02 cents only.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.