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Build thread: readying the Hanger 9 mustang 1/5th scale.

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Build thread: readying the Hanger 9 mustang 1/5th scale.

Old 11-29-2021, 11:07 PM
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Txmustangflyer
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Default Build thread: readying the Hanger 9 mustang 1/5th scale.

Too keep from clogging up the mustang brotherhood thread, I'm going to start a separate build thread for it. There's going to be things I need you guy's help with as this is known to be a "builders ARF."
The manual isn't very clear in spots, so follow along as I start the process.
I've been researching parts for about 8 months, as well as the different kits themselves. This mustang will be the better replacement to an ESM mustang I sold a few years ago.
so, the full rundown:
Airframe Hanger 9 HAN 4770. (Back ordered)
Retracts: Eflite electric including tailwheel. 10 spoke scale main wheels. (Wheels on back order)
Servos: Spectrum HV as specified in manual
Reciever: Frsky Archer SR10 pro w/Archer RS redundant.
Transmitter: Frsky X20
Telemetry: Frsky Gas Engine Sensor pack (engine temp, rpm, fuel velocity)
Exhaust: Jtec compact wrap around (kit specific)
Engine: Performance Unlimited Products modified Zenoah G62 w/reed valve conversion. (Undergoing modification)
Propellor: Ramoser vario-prop 23.5 inch diameter hub 25F 4 blade.
Pilot: warbirdpilots 1/5th scale USAAF
Spinner: most likely tru turn, haven't decided yet.

Now, some of you may look at engine and prop combo and think I'm nuts. It may not work but I am going to try. The engine was sourced from an old friend, rc flying buddy and hobby shop owner. He no longer flies due to various things. Engine was in his personal stash for a kit he never built. Was bought by him around 2007. It is a zenoah ZG62 (G62 with factory cdi and no spring starter shaft) A rebuild was needed, anyway, since engine had never seen gas or oil...for 14 years...and was still NIB

I may end up setting the zenoah aside and beating a path to Kolm's door. Who knows, but for right now, even with modifications, I am 800 bucks less than the engine I would have to order from Kolm to spin the vario-prop. The prop hub on the zenoah is also getting a bit of modification. Two more location pins are being inserted into the hub, 90 degrees rotation from the factory installed ones.

The livery will not be a Hanger 9 included, but Will Faord's Swamp Fox of the 357th, so it won't take a major change in color scheme. I'll just need to recover the rudder in yellow vs the red. Not super difficult. The new livery graphics being done by Callie-Graphics and will include her 1/5th scale P51 mustang set.

Fuel will be as recommended by Performance: 87 octane mixed at 30:1

When I hit hiccups, please PLEASE post in reply. It's been 8 years and a Lasik surgery ago since I put a Plane together and the lasik only worked for 5.






Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 11-30-2021 at 07:31 AM.
Old 12-01-2021, 12:05 PM
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No airframe yet, but the parts are trickling in. The wife, in fact, did not send in the engine yet, because a couple of things have not, yet shown up. I was able to see it, unmodified, first hand.
It is NOT a zg62 as I was told, but the G62 magneto. So, I've contacted ch ignition for a fast ship of a cdi conversion kit for it, to go along to performance as well as the Stinsel reed valve conversion from Dave's motors.
I'm hoping the latter will arrive in the next couple of days before I have to leave out again. I'll try to have the ignition overnighter to get everything off to performance so it's back by the time the airframe does arrive.

These will be the only pictures of the unmodified engine.










Old 12-01-2021, 04:46 PM
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wow nice G-62 where did you find that one ? I thought Zenoah was out of business but B & B mite have some or Daves Motors that's where I found parts to a damaged G-62 you can also check out RC extreme Power.com as well
is the plane you are going to be building a kit or an arf ??

SG

Last edited by SIX GUNS; 12-01-2021 at 04:54 PM. Reason: forgot something
Old 12-01-2021, 05:32 PM
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Six, An old friend, former rc pilot, and LHS owner had this one for a personal build he never did. Sat on a shelf since about 2007 and was NIB. It's headed to a place called performance unlimited products to be changed to their "pro mod" g 62, basically a race engine. Getting ported, new, better piston (domed) combustion chamber area of cylinder being reshaped. Lengthening of stroke to boost compression, converted to reed valve induction and cdi ignition. Tail shaft is being machined off as it won't be needed.
All in an attempt to get enough power to turn a 23.5 inch 4 blade Ramoser technic Vario-prop (ground adjustable variable pitch)
the Hanger 9 is an ARF but classed as a "builders arf" because there are issues as with all of them. But it's not a bad starting point at all. Overall, the structure is very good. The problems lie just in wing fitment and some, not very clear, areas of the build manual.

here is the link:

https://www.towerhobbies.com/product/p-51d-mustang-60cc-arf-89/HAN4770.html


All the servos came in as well. Just got to order the choke servo.
Things that haven't arrived: Stinsel reed valve conversion. Throttle linkage from B&B. The vario-prop
List to still order:
20 mm standoffs (Friday)
Ignition conversion (Friday)
Choke servo (Friday)
exhaust: Jtec makes a kit specific exhaust for this ARF. Al is recovering from back surgery so holding off on that one a bit. Probably order end of Dec.
Spinner. Until vario-prop is her as well as the airframe, I can't make the patterns for the prop. Plus prop hub modifications being done for the vario-prop have to be done first.
As far as purchasing a zenoah Aero g62, yes, B&B, Dave's motors, or performance unlimited.


Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-02-2021 at 04:41 PM.
Old 12-02-2021, 11:34 AM
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I have run in to one snag, mainly because I was a bit overzealous in ordering parts. I thought the prop bolt for the zenoa was a 10:1, it's not. It's a 10:1.25 so I have to reorder the longer prop bolt.
Old 12-02-2021, 03:19 PM
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Stand offs ordered, magnetic switch for reciever ordered, ignition conversion ordered,
working on the correct threaded longer prop bolt.
belmetric website being a pain.
The X20 is all set up, all 8 channels working, including choke. I may move the assignment for the choke later and I'll need to add a channel for the optical kill.
In total 9 channels used. I'm trying to avoid a Y harness on the ailerons in case I want to set up a landing "butterfly" mix.
Old 12-02-2021, 04:03 PM
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Also played around with the eflite retracts a little today to see if the delay functions could get a delayed, offset, movement of the main gear. Yup, I'll be able to. A 1 second delay between the mains does it. Not sure how that will work with the inner door servos, but I think the controller doesn't move the doors until the previous cycle (in this case extending or retracting the main gear) completes.
I'll play with it a bit more once I have everything hooked up on a proper hook up to the reciever. If you've ever seen a real mustang extend or retract it's gear, they don't move at the same time, neither do the inner gear doors. Nice to see Eflite gave some options to let us mimic that in scale.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-02-2021 at 05:50 PM.
Old 12-03-2021, 07:24 AM
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Got notification today that the reed valve conversion kit should be delivered by 6 pm. (Yay!)

Ch Ignitions will be overnight in the cdi conversion so it will, hopefully, be here by Monday, meaning I can, hopefully, get the engine sent off to Performance Unlimited by Tuesday.

10-14 day turn around so it's still going to beat the airframe here.

with the reed valve conversion, the carburetor will be about an inch further out from engine, might mean having to put the engine at an angle in the cowl or opening the cowl for the carb, unfortunately. I'll have to mock up both and see what is best. If I open the cowl, then keeping the prop wash from affecting the carb becomes an issue. I may have a solution for that. Be a simple, rear facing scoop cover.

then again, it may just need a slight cant to get the clearance.
Overall, the reed valve conversion is going to improve the transition from idle to WOT, plus an additional bump in power and torque through the mid range to WOT, by preventing the fuel/air charge from "backing up" the intake before the piston seals the port, resulting in a more consistent burn each cycle.

This engine is going to be darn near unrecognizable on its return. The only thing identifying it as a zenoah that will remain is the castings. Even the prop hub is being modified.

I'm hopeful that, after modification, it has the power needed. Otherwise engine options get slim.
there's only one engine that, unmodified, would have the power. That would be the Kolm 70 cc single. It's size is the same as their prior 65 cc.
but at 1800 Euro it's a chunk of cash (around 2300 bucks) I hope I don't have to spend.

cross your fingers. This is the reason I picked the zenoah, the ability to modify the engine due to the strength if the cylinder casting, giving the ability to up the compression. Hopefully it doesn't result in a cylinder flying off like a bullet or a bent crank or connecting rod. I'm trusting performance to use the right alloys in their aftermarket pieces.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-03-2021 at 07:37 AM.
Old 12-03-2021, 07:49 AM
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Another thing I need to put out there, the vario-prop on a gas engine has a max rpm of 6300 (unloaded). depending on how much it unloads in flight, may mean an rpm on the ground somewhere in the 4000 to 5000 rpm range. I do want to see if the engine/prop can hit 6300 on the ground to tune the carb with the vario-prop, but from there, I'll have to increase pitch to bring engine rpm down to 4500 for the maiden and adjust from there. It's going to take some tuning of the prop to get it just right, which means adjust, fly, land adjust...rinse and repeat as needed. The prop cannot go over 6300 rpm. The vibration from the engine above that can cause stress cracks, and ultimately, failure, of the blades. If it needs more than that, I may have to check into carbon composite blades for it.
Old 12-03-2021, 08:51 AM
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If you have a Zenoah, and you want to get it back in top condition for use again. You have a number if options.
1. B&B Specialties: they have whole engines, as well as parts, rebuild kits, etc to restore a zenoah to "like new"
2. CH Ignitions has Zenoah cdi conversions available. They include the hall sensor, bracket, flywheel, and module. The bracket bolts in the same location as the magneto. Doing this conversionshaves 6 oz off the overall engine weight.
3. For the Aero engines, you can also send it in to performance unlimited products to get any zenoah modified. They can also apply similar mods to other engines. They can modify to improve performance in the mid range, or give you a high rpm, screaming, race engine that, with proper propeller, will let you take that pylon racer as fast as you dare.
I'm not trying to do a racing engine, but look8ng for that mid range bump. I keep circling back to this as it's uncharted territory for me. Bring me a V8 engine and I can work some magic, but when it comes to single cylinder 2 cycles...yeah..I leave those to others.
Some of the same principles apply, sure. Improve intake and exhaust flow, improve piston and cylinder profiles, changing stroke..those work with any engine to a degree.
how much of an improvement it does for a two cycle 62 cc engine...I can only keep my fingers crossed its enough. Invested, the engine, now, is approaching 1200 dollars (including performance unlimited price for mods)
how that stacks up to an off the shelf kolm 70..I'm still a thousand dollars under their price.

Old 12-03-2021, 09:32 AM
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So, all thats left to order is...the spinner and exhaust.

the proper sized prop bolt has been ordered, 20mm stand offs ordered, actual spacing needed is 23 mm, but, by the time washers etc are in place at firewall and engine that pretty much takes up some of that. Adjustment for proper clearance is just adding washers as needed.

Still waiting on the Vario-prop to arrive from Germany and, still waiting on the 10 spoke wheels from tower as well as the airframe.

Choke servo is ordered, ignition bettery is ordered, reciever battery is here, it's a 2s 5400 mah at 7.4 v. That may be changed up to a 3s. We'll see how things balance.

all the servos are Spektrum HV's. The linkages are going to be interesting to the carb, especially if I have to clock the engine to clearance the carburetor.

So, some new hurdles have, potentially appeared.

In preparation of resolving those issues I have ordered a carbon fiber, 3 ply plate, as well as some 1/16th birch plywood from aloft hobbies.
the carbon fiber plate will be used, for a better engine baffle and to isolate the carb from the prob blast, if needed. Can fashion into a small scoop, that's light weight, using the mounting bolts of carb to mount. The ply will be used to make the prop patterns needed by truturn, and patterns for the baffle and scoop. Be a basic one, nothing fancy, but will be light, strong, and functional.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-03-2021 at 12:13 PM.
Old 12-04-2021, 07:36 AM
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Today I settled on cub yellow to retrim the rudder for Swamp Fox
Now I just have to start some tool collection that I'll need. Restarting in this hobby after selling everything takes a lot if initial outlay. The wife is starting to wince whenever I'm online lol.

What she doesn't realize is some of this you buy once, and reuse till it quits. Still going to try to go a budget friendly route. Most of the hand tools I'll need will come from harbor freight. Taps/dies, tiny screwdrivers, levels..etc.
the one pricey tool that I need I'll get from Lowes. That's a good Dremel and bits.
I'll make an easy CG rig when I get there..some plywood drilled to slide over the wing tube loosely, a plum bob and a level. When the plane hangs level on the loops (hooked to a 2x2 piece via rope) with the plumb bob hung the same distance as the cg from the tube and the plumb bob hangs dead on the mark..she should be balanced...at least..that's the theory. Seen variations of it in multiple videos but I get the gist.
We'll see how it works. Commercially available cg rigs that can handle 1/5th scale and up are as much as an engine nowadays.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-04-2021 at 05:33 PM.
Old 12-04-2021, 09:56 AM
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Another round of deliveries. Still no airframe or wheels, but..

Lt. Will Faord has reported for duty:

Old 12-04-2021, 09:57 AM
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Fuel tank, fuel dot and fuel tank tray from Desert Aircraft




the fuel dot will be placed at the location for the center tank cap on the real plane. Don't think this is quite 1/5th scale but it makes sense to put it there.
DA makes it a pretty easy install, plywood mount for it is included. Nice package.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-04-2021 at 10:09 AM.
Old 12-04-2021, 10:00 AM
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And the reed valve conversion from DDM racing.


the only thing I'm waiting on to send the engine off now, is the cdi conversion kit from CH Ignition. It should arrive Monday.

The Vario Prop is still enroute from Germany. Looking forward to seeing that machined masterpiece.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-04-2021 at 10:02 AM.
Old 12-04-2021, 10:15 AM
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Everything included with the tank. The Tygon is getting ditched in favor of Viton.
Old 12-04-2021, 10:24 AM
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A quick test fit of the components. Fill and vent tube get glued to the cap insert on final. Their final placement will be towards top of tank as it sits installed.
Old 12-04-2021, 10:27 AM
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The transmitter case is filling up quick!


Now, if Vernie would send a Desert Aircraft sticker then just about all the parts suppliers for this build would be on there..I'm saving them a spot!

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-04-2021 at 11:39 AM.
Old 12-04-2021, 01:50 PM
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I've got the exhaust off in preparation to ship to performance. Posting as good of a shot as I can get of the piston.


be interesting to see the difference when it comes back.

I've done assembled the stinsel reed valve conversion to the engine to mock it up and get an idea of the width increase.



It's out there so it is going to stick through the cowl some. Even turning the engine 45 degrees probably won't alleviate that. It is what it is.

The nice part about it..It allows me to clock the carb, alleviating another possible issue with the throttle linkage.

Old 12-04-2021, 02:38 PM
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For those head scratching on the tank tray..



keeps the tank from moving at all..all that's needed is the one velcro strap.
Old 12-04-2021, 04:17 PM
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Can't forget the Xoar propellers that will be used for initial tuning and run in of the engine on its return from Performance Unlimited.
Black: 22x10
Grey: 23x8

Old 12-04-2021, 06:49 PM
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A side note: If you happen to be perusing flying giants, look up a thread started by ghoffman who did a long, pretty scientific, comparison of Tygon vs Viton, exposure to gasoline, sunlight, etc. over time.
If you still use Tygon in any part of your fuel system, it will be an eye opener. I did to, including my last mustang I built. As a result of his work in that area, the Hanger 9 will be plumbed from the clunk to the engine and all throughout with Viton. I ordered mine from McMaster Carr. Use the link he provides in the thread. It's a bit more expensive than Tygon, but will not harden, won't expand or swell, retains its internal diameter, even with prolonged exposure and complete submersion in fuel.
No drips, no leaks, and from the clunk to the tank, you won't end up with a kinked up fuel line in the front corner of the tank after an inverted dive, roll, or other maneuver. It will stay to the aft end of the tank like it should without having to use brass tubing to keep it there.
Edit: ghoffman has been running the same Viton for 2 years now...no leaks..no failures.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-05-2021 at 05:41 AM.
Old 12-04-2021, 08:47 PM
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Thinking ahead some to build completion and having to cg an 89 inch wingspan airplane. I've seen the homemade cg rigs using rope, a hook in the ciel8ng, plum bob, , and level. As well as various commercial machines.
I'm continuing to research that one. On the ESM I had help cging it. Got it close using the fingertip method, then took it to a flying buddy's shop and used a homemade cg rig he had for giant scale..I wasn't too far off on it. Just moved the rx battery a half inch forward.
This time, it's me and the wife so have been leaning towards a commercially available set up. The more I think about it, the initial outlay (a one time outlay) will make it much easier in the long run, but I need something that can fit in a small case.

https://aeropanda.com/products/cg-wizard-3-0-pro

There is that and a similar, but more expensive scale setup made in Europe. The aeropanda has its own power supply now, rechargeable, which makes it a self contained unit. Ties into a smartphone app for entry of measurements and determining cg. The latest version includes incidence and control surface deflection measuring as well.
Not bad for 250.00
Old 12-05-2021, 12:56 PM
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This is the Frsky gas engine sensor pack. 2 temp sensors, harness to go between cdi module and hall sensor, a bolt on temp sensor, and a fuel velocity sensor.
They all go to the control box and from there, connections are made to the smart port on the reciever. The tach harness also goes to a channel on the reciever, providing an "optical kill" function. It can also be configured to throttle limit the engine to keep from over revving the engine or prop.
I'll need to figure out a way to put an LED in that circuit to indicate the ignition is hot or not.
I'd like to use that LED, dual purpose, one as an indicator the ignition is live, the other to back light the instrument panel.

Last edited by Txmustangflyer; 12-05-2021 at 03:10 PM.
Old 12-06-2021, 08:53 AM
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Thanks to Adrian at CH Ignitions, the Zenoah now has all the parts needed by Performance Unlimited to do their modifications.



It is now on its way via UPS, estimated arrival 12/8

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