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Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Old 01-17-2005, 04:56 PM
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seanucd2000
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Default Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

I would love to build the big Ziroli P-47, but am a bit afraid of how much time it would take to build one. I have read all the threads possible on here, and no one mentions total time to build. I could build the big TF kit, or even the smaller TF kit, which both would have to be faster. I like to build, but spending 2000 hours on a plane (if it takes that long) is not worth it to me.

I am interested in a good looking semi sport scale type plane. It doesn't have to have every rivet in perfect detail either. I realize that the detail takes a huge amount of time, so I can skip out on some of that.

But, what would be a realistic expectation of time to build any of these planes?
Old 01-17-2005, 05:16 PM
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BobH
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Why don't you build the Yellow P-47 if time is your major objection? You can build the Yellow kit a lot faster. The fuse is Glass and the wings are sheeted foam so much of the work is done already. I'd estimate 300-400 hours to build depending on your experience. That's for a decent sport scale plane with a decent paint job and markings.
Old 01-17-2005, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

I have built quite a few planes now, and am fairly confident in my skills. I do like to build, and have a reasonable amount of time to do it, but usually only build about 10-15 hours a week if I have nothing else going on. So, 300 hours is about 4 months, and that could be about what I am looking for.

I can put out a goldberg kit quite fast now, so I want something that takes longer to build, but not 1000+ hours. Is the 300-400 for the Yellow Kit with a fiberglass fuse and foam wings, or was that for the built up one from plans like the Ziroli?

I guess I am trying to figure out whether to get a fiberglass fuse, a precut Ziroli kit, or to warm up my scroll saw and start cutting one myself. I will do some research into the Yellow kits to see what they involve.
Old 01-17-2005, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Seanucd2000, You should also look into the Meister Scale P-47! It's bigger than the other mentioned...and bigger is better! But seriously, the Meister warbirds are much easier builds than a Ziroli or a Vaillencourt. You could always have a foam wing cut for it as well if you prefer foam wings. The Meister is hands down the best flying P-47 on the market...granted it is not quite a scale as the smaller kit's, but you can detail it to whatever level you desire. You can buy plans and cut your own wood, buy a short kit, or a full wood kit...it's up to you. You can check it out at http://www.meister-scale.com/index.html
Anyway, it's another alternative for you to consider...my friend and Top Gun competitor (world class pilot) Dean DiGiorgio say's it's the best P-47 he's ever flown! and to me, that alone say's alot, as Dean's flown just about everything there is out there!
Good luck,
Rob / Pickupsticks

PS I have attached a couple of pics of my Meister P-47 razorback
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Old 01-17-2005, 05:53 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

WHOAH! That one is huge! I only have a two car garage to store that beast! I would LOVE to have one that size, but how big of a runway do you need? My field has a nice long paved one that could easily support a big 40% aerobatic plane (and they fly regularly there), but how much of a runway do you need for a warbird that size? I would be afraid it wouldn't be long enough. We do have tons of open space, so that is no problem though. Would a G62 fly one that size, or do you need something bigger, like an 80 or 100?

I could easily just get the 1/7 Top Flite P47 Kit for $149, but want something that I will be more proud of than one of those

Thanks!
Sean
Old 01-17-2005, 06:08 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean, Yeh the Meister Jug is a beast!!! But I have found that I can fly a warbird this size from just about any field that you can fly a Ziroli or a Vailey from. Landing is rarely a problem, the flaps are very effective and they will come in pretty slow at about a 30 degree decent angle. As for an engine, I would recommend a Quadra 75 or equivilent...or larger wouldn't hurt, but the Quadra will fly it just fine. Also, if you're on a budget...and who isn't these days...you can often pick up a good used engine on RCU, ebay, etc. Oh yeh, before I forget, it is a 2 piece wing so it makes storage and transport easier.

I think that you would really like the Meister Jug, it is big and impressive, and fly's like a dream. And before you or anyone else asks...no I don't work for Meister Scale
Rob
Old 01-17-2005, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

I would say from what you have said that the TF Giant scale P47 would be good for you. It is scale enough to be appreciated yet if you are patient you can add a lot of detail to it to make it outstanding. It is also a comprehnsive kits with most items included excepting radio, engine and linkages.

It builds fast, is easy to build and from everyone I talk to about them they fly superbly, probably one of the easiest warbirds to fly.

cheers
Peter
Old 01-17-2005, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

As much as I love the big planes, I just realized I wouldn't be able to set a 102" plane sideways in my garage! It wouldn't fit! Not to mention, the cost of those....

I want to get started on one fairly soon, but just thought with a Ziroli type set of plans, it would give me more "building time" for my buck, but still be a good plane. Any estimates of time to build one of these from plans? I have two four-stroke glow motors that would go good in a 70" or so size plane, but I want one just a little bigger than those.
Old 01-17-2005, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean, The Miester is a 2 peice wing...51" each 1/2 so it's not that bad at all...and remember, the Ziroli is a 1 piece wing so storage space is actually more. Also a trick I use for storage in my garage...I screw some of the large eye-hooks into the rafters and then hang some clothes line from them and I can hang wings and fuselages! You can even hang them above the car so you can still bring it in the garage!!!
Rob
Old 01-17-2005, 06:58 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

ORIGINAL: seanucd2000

As much as I love the big planes, I just realized I wouldn't be able to set a 102" plane sideways in my garage! It wouldn't fit! Not to mention, the cost of those....

I want to get started on one fairly soon, but just thought with a Ziroli type set of plans, it would give me more "building time" for my buck, but still be a good plane. Any estimates of time to build one of these from plans? I have two four-stroke glow motors that would go good in a 70" or so size plane, but I want one just a little bigger than those.
Then it sounds to me like you're looking for a Top Flite DC-3 / C47. The glow engines would fly it and it's a trifle larger than that 70" item. I have seen one fly, and want one myself. There are at least two build threads on RCU.

If you really want a gasoline plane, that Yellow P47 flies nice. Mine needs most of 300 feet to land, but I land sort of fast. With full flaps and a quarter throttle, you could probably land on 200' of runway.

Enjoy!
Dave Olson
Old 01-17-2005, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

that was a NICE scale airplane!
It is really good to see that people out there build nice airplanes!
i have to admid that i am a beginner with rc airplanes, but a nice airplane like that would i like to have....
Old 01-17-2005, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Hmm... the wings break in two? That could be good! Our runways is perhaps 200 feet long with smooth grass on one side. That would help slow the plane down, compared to the asphalt runway. Could I land that huge Meister on that size of a runway? I would REALLY LOVE a P47 that size though.

How long would it take me to build one of these kits?

Either the Yellow, TF Giant, or the Big Meister or Ziroli?
Old 01-17-2005, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Building depends on your skill level and amount of time available...but I would say that the Meister will build faster than a Ziroli ... if you have glass experience, they are probably faster...maybe? But nowhere near as impressive! I think you could build the Meister in much less than 300 hours...it's really not much harder than a TF kit...but it's from plans...no instruction book...although the plans have the building steps on them so if you can follow written direction you will have no problems. Sounds like you definitely have enough room to land, runway is long enough and you stated earlier that you have lot's of open space for your approach. I would say, go for the Meister...but then I am bias!
Take care,
Rob
Old 01-17-2005, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean,

even though the other kits/plans are excellent the advantages of the TF GS P47 is that it is a complete kit with all timber etc. It is a good price at around $210 USD it flies almost trainer like and lands SLOOOOW with full flaps.

If you do not have a gret deal of expereince building and have never built just from plans alone then this is a good intermediate level kit to hone your building skills on and the instruction booklet is excellent.

It also has good presence in that it is 85" wingspan, so big enough to look good but easily transported.


thats my 2 bobs worth

cheers
Peter
Old 01-17-2005, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Am I the only one here that realizes that there's no comparison between the TF kit and the Ziroli in terms of labor and time?

The Ziroli short kit goes together much faster than a TF kit anyday, assumoing you use the fiberglass fuse and foam components available for the Ziroli....

TF kits are very much labor intensive. It's not an ovrerstatement to declare them absurdly and riduculously so!!

You'll spend much more time building a TF kit than a Ziroli, assuming you're an experienced builder ?

Are you?
Old 01-17-2005, 09:54 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean,

I've built the Meister's, Ziroli's and the TF kits. Not sure what your building experience is, but I can do a Meister and Ziroli in less than 200 hours. The TF a little less than that. 220 hours will include all the panel lines and some very nice detail. The cost is not that much greater to do the larger kits over a TF and the kit cost can be equal to the TF in you cut it yourself. I'm building a Ziroli Stuka right now and the kit cost me $170 and that includes the lazer cut short kit (ribs and bulkheads) You will spend the same on servos no matter what larger scale you go with (80" +). The gear and the engine will run approximately an additional $3-400 (total) over the TF for the larger kits (maybe). The Yellow, a great choice if you want to save some time, but you won't save much $ with this kit either. Personally, I'm a Meister fan myself, but they all are good choices. A 200 foot runway.........Not a chance for any of these. I hate carrier landings!
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:50 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

I have built about a dozen kits and feel confident I could do it. Under 300 hours, but closer to 200 would be perfect. That is WAY less time than I thought. I just love the big ones, but am afraid of the runway. Would 200 feet really be long enough? There is about another 50 feet of grass on each side, but then a short fence after that 50 feet.

I have had enough kits for now, and can buy more of those. I want a longer term building project that just doesn't take forever. So, any of these would be good for time, as it sounds like. I am not too big on foam or fiberglass, and would want a built up balsa one. I am surprised to hear I could put a ziroli kit together faster than a TF one....

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll figure out what to do sooner or later!
Old 01-17-2005, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Chook, what is that plane?!? I want one exactly like that! I didn't notice the picture at first. Also, what is in it as far as engine, etc.?

There are 3 other clubs within about 30 miles from here. Perhaps one of them has an even bigger runway. The field I fly at now is barely a mile from my house, so I suppose I could join one of the others and fly out there if the runway here proves to be too short.

I don't know what it was, but I saw a big warbird take off (sort of) from my previous field before I moved, and that plane took every inch of that runway. I would just be nervous.
Old 01-17-2005, 11:32 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean, Carey...if you have a 200' runway (that's 2/3 of a football field) and a good long clear approach...no problems. But...if it's 200' and not a good clear approach, then that's a differnt ballgame. I flew a Nosen P-47 off of a field with about a 250' (max.) runway with 8' corn fields at both ends...getting airborne was no problem...took me about 8 attempts to get her in though...barely...still clipped the corn but no damage.
I still say for your $$ the Meister is the better over all airplane.

Branded, I can build a TF in about a month (160 hrs.), glassed and painted...a Ziroli in about 2 months (320 hrs.)...a Meister in about 5 weeks (200 hrs.). Granted it depends on the level of detail. I'm not talking rivets, just panel lines, a little cockpit detail and a real good paint job.

Sean, Also think about this, regardless of the time to build, the TF typically has a wing loading on the heavy side...flies well but not terrific; the Ziroli is more difficult to build and also has a heavier wing loading (built up kit) the Ziroli glass fuse and foam wing combo is somewhat better; the Meister (fully built up) has a lower wing loading and the flight characteristics are so much better...granted this is partly due to the flat airfoil.

Okay, I guess the argument is really going to come down to this[sm=biggrin.gif] line up all the prospects together...the Meister is by far the most impressive of them all. Nobody puts out a bigger P-47, nobody puts out a P-47 that flies better.

So, those are my opinions and I'm sticking to them!

Buy the Meister...you won't be sorry...even if you have to drive further to fly it...it flies that much better!
Rob
Old 01-17-2005, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Well, I have built the TF kits as well as others available. I've bee building kits since 1962 and hence I think I'm somewhat a critic/critical reviewer of such kits.

The fact is, simply put, that a Ziroli [anything] can be built, simpler, and with far less labor than any TF kit!

Building a TF kit is only akin to taking on a second job or career!

You better have lots of extra time before taking on one of thrse kits!

They have excellent instructions but who cares if it takes an inordinate time frame to complete thier kit?

T/F is known to have (drum roll please) , too many parts, too many steps (really!) in the constrtuction instructions, and just an amatuerist attempt to supply a product to compete with more mature model types suc as Ziroli supplies.....

T/F had its "day" but that day has passed IMO...
Old 01-18-2005, 12:04 AM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Branded, For the most part I agree completely. But it never took me all that long to build a TF kit...maybe it's just me I haven't built a TF in about 10 years, and I don't miss them either...just my preference, I like bigger airplanes...Meister, PCM, Nosen...etc.

Sean, you're going to be hearing a little voice in your head tonight...buy the Meister..buy the Meister...buy the Meister... ... ...[sm=lol.gif]

Rob
Old 01-18-2005, 12:57 AM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Yeah, the little voice is already talking! That pland didn't look THAT big until I looked at your website, and saw the one with the person standing next to it on its nose! Wow! This is so tough. Perhaps I will just order the plans now, and start looking over them. Would it be tough to cut my own parts, or should I not even bother and just get a short kit? I am getting better with my scroll saw. Also, what would I use for landing gear on that? I only have a 6 channel radio as well. I refuse to let this hobby get too complicated! (Of course I say this as I am contemplating getting a 102" plane! Hee hee....

You know what, my old field's website says it has a 400 foot runway, and I think the new club's runway (I just moved a little ways away) is bigger than that one. If that one is 400, there is no way the one here is only 200.


Here is a pic of our runway from the club's website. Perhaps it is big enough to land one of those beasts.

That is going to be a lot of money, but hmmm.....
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Old 01-18-2005, 01:32 AM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean, That runway looks super! Don't worry about room, it's there! Ya know, when it comes to cutting parts, it can add a bit more satisfaction to the final project, but to me it's not worth the time. The laser cut short kits aren't expensive at all, and they're pretty much fool proof. No matter how good I thought I got with my scroll and band saws, there were always parts that had to be redone once or twice, or could have been done better. Those mistakes or learning steps add to the final cost as well.

As for your Tx, that's all you really need....ailerons, rudder, elevators, throttle, flaps, retracts. As for the retracts, I think the only ones available for the Jug are CJM (Century Jet Models) I know that you will hear lot's of folks trash them, but I've had them in so many airplanes that I lost count, and I've never had a problem with them that wasn't my own fault. I think they are good gear and recommend them without hesitation.

It certainly wouldn't hurt getting a set of plans now just to familiarize yourself with them. Even if you change your mind, you can always sell them here and get most of your $$ back. Go for it!

Rob
Old 01-18-2005, 05:09 AM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean

It may be worth looking at my Yellow P47 build up. I haven't been racing to do it, and it could be done in less than half the time if you put the hours in to it. I know its been mentioned before but this should give you an idea of whats involved in the build.

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Yellow_P47_Build_up/m_2238773/tm.htm]RCU Yellow P47 build up[/link]

Lee
Old 01-18-2005, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: Realistic Expectations to build a big P47...

Sean,

Go for the Ziroli or Meister if you ding a wing and need replacment from Yellow than you might
as well buy another kit. The meister has a glass fuse avail. if interested. Not from me but I can
give you the contact info if your interested. Any Ziroli, Meister will build much faster than a TF kit.

Chuck

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