Tell me about these kit cutters:
#26
cad
Actually Randall you are close as the plans can still be hand drawn and the parts be vectored in for the laser giving you a better quality product as it isnt the plans that makes a good aircraft as much as it is the parts you are using to build the plane with.
Joe
OK Let me put it another way. When we build on top of hand drawn plans we use squares straight edges etc so any slight imperfections in the plans we take out when we are building because we use squares etc to make sure everything is straight. So since we can take care of the plans if we get a cad drawn part then are parts are perfect and because of triangles and squares we make our construction perfect thus hand drawn plans do not matter but hand drawn parts do matter.
whew finally i got figured out what i was trying to say
Joe
OK Let me put it another way. When we build on top of hand drawn plans we use squares straight edges etc so any slight imperfections in the plans we take out when we are building because we use squares etc to make sure everything is straight. So since we can take care of the plans if we get a cad drawn part then are parts are perfect and because of triangles and squares we make our construction perfect thus hand drawn plans do not matter but hand drawn parts do matter.
whew finally i got figured out what i was trying to say
#27
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Service!
I personally prefer the Laser cuts The parts just seem to fit better. Thats not to say there aren't hand cut kits just as good. I am just saying the hand cut kits I have recieved haven't been as good but we have only got them from a couple of cutters. I also agree that no matter who cuts for you SERVICE and workmanship are the 2 biggest factors. Find someone who wants your business and is willing to take care of you service wise to get it. For a lot of us price is also a concern. The P-61 I just recieved is a 114" Ziroli Short kit (which contains all the cut parts but not the off the shelf dimensional wood. At $150 I consider it quite a bargain from the $450 I had priced elsewhere. That $300 I saved will buy a lot of wood from the local hobby shop.
#28
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?
Ohh and Randall please forgive the childish dribble! Remember most of the people in these forums have spent a lot of time in small enclosed areas with a lot of open glue containers. And yes the cutters you have mentioned all produce very nice kits. I think you are going to boil this one down to personal preference.
#29
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Tell me about these kit cutters:
Is it common for these kits to need NOT fit perfectly. In other words, is it normal for each wing rib to need to be trimmed for the spar and for every fuse former to be trimmed for the stringers? How good is the sheeting? Is it common for one piece of 3" 3/32 sheeting to weigh 16g and another in the same kit to weigh 40g?
-Ben
-Ben
#31
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Experienced problems - with 4 other cutters
Experienced problems - with 4 other cutters
Gentlemen,
" You should find it interesting, in providing accolades or complain of having experienced problems with the three fore mentioned kit cutters. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can not speak from experience on the three mentioned, except that if you want a aircraft that is not standard
(ie. Zeroli plans etc. )
Than either there is a LONG -- LONG ------- wait ------- or they are not at all interested or the estimate for looking at doing the Simi kit is two to three times what it could and is being done for at this time.
As for one of the three you mention - I priced a SuperHawk Biplane from them at 425.00 kit only:
That did not include the cowl, canopy, tail wheel, wheel pants, cabanas, landing gear wires, or plans which can be purchased from the original mfg. for 525.00 total complete kit with everything.
I find that whether it is laser cut or hand cut its in the individual - selection of wood, direction of grain, density, etc, AND the support of correcting anything which may have been forgotten or overlooked, broken either in shipment. If you will a old fashion hand shake grantee of sorts.
" I also agree that no matter who cuts for you SERVICE and workmanship are the 2 biggest factors. Find someone who wants your business and is willing to take care of you service wise to get it." --- I can not agree more!!!
The cad / drawing work is the most important whether it is cad or by hand - as most of the prints are drawn hastily or inadequately and a lot of detail is left out. Not just shaping of the lines very few plans supply everything that should be on a drawing or in a list ( ha ha ha ). There is a big statement as a list of wood sizes or any specifications has rarely been included on the several plans that I have purchased, looked at etc. . The biggest problem is that rarely do the designers include the 3rd sheet - that has all the parts need instead of extracting them form the drawings that they provide.
Thanks to ALL the people in the industry for doing what some of us don't have the time or knowledge to do as without them the hobby would be less..... regardless of price.
I can speak about the others that I have had the exasperation and displeasure of contracting with and it is not at all favorable or encouraging to say the least. - All verifiable
Thanks
Jim
C.F.I.T.
Gentlemen,
" You should find it interesting, in providing accolades or complain of having experienced problems with the three fore mentioned kit cutters. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can not speak from experience on the three mentioned, except that if you want a aircraft that is not standard
(ie. Zeroli plans etc. )
Than either there is a LONG -- LONG ------- wait ------- or they are not at all interested or the estimate for looking at doing the Simi kit is two to three times what it could and is being done for at this time.
As for one of the three you mention - I priced a SuperHawk Biplane from them at 425.00 kit only:
That did not include the cowl, canopy, tail wheel, wheel pants, cabanas, landing gear wires, or plans which can be purchased from the original mfg. for 525.00 total complete kit with everything.
I find that whether it is laser cut or hand cut its in the individual - selection of wood, direction of grain, density, etc, AND the support of correcting anything which may have been forgotten or overlooked, broken either in shipment. If you will a old fashion hand shake grantee of sorts.
" I also agree that no matter who cuts for you SERVICE and workmanship are the 2 biggest factors. Find someone who wants your business and is willing to take care of you service wise to get it." --- I can not agree more!!!
The cad / drawing work is the most important whether it is cad or by hand - as most of the prints are drawn hastily or inadequately and a lot of detail is left out. Not just shaping of the lines very few plans supply everything that should be on a drawing or in a list ( ha ha ha ). There is a big statement as a list of wood sizes or any specifications has rarely been included on the several plans that I have purchased, looked at etc. . The biggest problem is that rarely do the designers include the 3rd sheet - that has all the parts need instead of extracting them form the drawings that they provide.
Thanks to ALL the people in the industry for doing what some of us don't have the time or knowledge to do as without them the hobby would be less..... regardless of price.
I can speak about the others that I have had the exasperation and displeasure of contracting with and it is not at all favorable or encouraging to say the least. - All verifiable
Thanks
Jim
C.F.I.T.
#32
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Tell me about these kit cutters:
Another interesting point to consider is if the manufacturer makes all of the parts on site. Some cutters will 'farm out' work to other people. With different people manufacturing different portions of the same kit, there can sometimes be inconsistencies due the different approaches taken by different people. 100% of my kits are made on site (even the wire bending). Find out who farms out work and/or who does not.
Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
#33
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Kits...Kits...Kits.....
Gentlemen....Many good points made about kit Kutters...Laser vs. Hand cut...Hand drawn plans vs CAD plans.....But the bottom line here is the "BUILDER".........How much time is taken to make a plane straight and true.........Follow intructions...ask questions if necessary......make sure the Plane is mechanically sound .....take time to thoroughly"sand" and true wings, fuses ,stabs ..etc....Ck and double ck...that gentlemen "IS" what makes a "GOOD" flying airplane......That first day out at the field test flying a newly finished project.....and it performs as expected...thats when all the tedious and painstaking work pays off....now.....did it "REALLY" matter if it was a "laser" or "hand cut kit"....its a builders choice....ultimately thats who makes it a good "finished " product......Bill......
PULL BACK.....Houses get smaller....PUSH DOWN......Houses get bigger.....
#34
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Tell me about these kit cutters:
Gentlemen,
I have found this information invaluable in making an educated decision in what avenue to pursue when I start my project. I now fully understand the differences between laser and hand cut kits, and the process that makes the difference when choosing one over the other.
JOE and GLENN, I especially found your input very enlightening and helpfull.
Thanks to all. -Randall
I have found this information invaluable in making an educated decision in what avenue to pursue when I start my project. I now fully understand the differences between laser and hand cut kits, and the process that makes the difference when choosing one over the other.
JOE and GLENN, I especially found your input very enlightening and helpfull.
Thanks to all. -Randall
#36
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Tell me about these kit cutters:
Built the Ziroli B-25 101" from Aeroplane Works kit, it was a work of art (the kit in the box). Beautiful wood, perfect cuts. Best I have ever seen.
Mark
Mark
#37
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Tell me about these kit cutters:
Mark,
Thank you for saying so.
I would love to have a picture of your plane when it is done (or in construstion!)
Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
http://www.theaeroplaneworks.com
Thank you for saying so.
I would love to have a picture of your plane when it is done (or in construstion!)
Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
http://www.theaeroplaneworks.com