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Hidden control linkage options?

Old 11-19-2002, 07:11 PM
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NE0
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Building my first scale warbird (85" SBD) and have a question regarding control linkages. The plans for my plane have all the servo horns, control horns and associated linkages hidden/buried withing the plane's structure, except for the ailerons.

Going for the best "scale look" I can get (within reason) I am a little bummed about having these apparatus sticking out from the bottom of my wing. I tried looking at other scale warbirds on the web to see how many of you guys are coming up with solutions for hiding them inside the wing, but can't really see what direction was taken since all the pics are from above the plane, looking down.

My question is, are most guys burying/hiding the aileron controls inside the wing and aileron, or are they just living with them protruding from the plane? If I do leave them external, how much would this hurt me in scale competition (assuming it turns out well enough to compete)?

I have seen a couple pages on the web about "how" to hide them via cantilever hardware or proprietary premade actuators, but don't know if these are good options. How many guys go to this extent for true scale look, and are these solutions reliable? Do they give good throws and hold up well to a load?

I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions you have.

Thanks,

NE0
Old 11-19-2002, 07:27 PM
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warbirdz1
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Default SBD.....

NEO....If your serious about being competitive...needs to be close to exact as the real deal......Most common way is to mount servo "flat" and make a ply "tab" on aileron usually on 2nd rib from I/B side of aileron...then mount pushrod inside wing from servo to aileron....only problem is mechanical advantage is very small and a higher torque servo is needed....not to mention that the travel distance will need to be reduced by shortening arm on the servo.....makes for sensative ailerons but manageable.....Bill...
Old 11-19-2002, 08:00 PM
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k_sonn
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Neo:

On the Hellcat that I am building the plans show the control horn inside the aileron. When I get home tonigh, I can take a picture of the plan and post it here for you to see.
Old 11-19-2002, 08:06 PM
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f4you
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

I've used a very good system in a giant scale Top Flite Corsair--the description is in "High Flight" magazine (and probably elsewhere I suppose)--Volume 22, number 1---Spring, 2001.
I'll use it in an "Iron-Byron" (hehe) F4U I'm building now.

Let me know if you'd like a copy of the article/sketch. Keeps everything totally inside, provides VERY good torque/power to the control surface. The article is by Chris Spangenberg.
I've also used the idea on VERY SMALL electric scale ships.
The only disadvantage is that it doesn't allow as much travel as may be required for really snappy maneuvers---not an issue if you intend to fly in a true, scale-like fashion.

Basically, it is a sliding tube which has one end attached to the servo arm via a ball linkage (all of which is centered within the wing). The aileron is constructed with a length of solid rod extending out of it, on the aileron chord line, which extends into the wing, and ultimately slides into the tube secured to the servo arm. As the servo arm rotates, it basically "teeters" the aileron about it's hinges as the tube slides onto and off of the rod from the aileron.

If that's totally confusing, I understand--its harder to descibe than actually do!!!

If interested, I'll see if I can do a photo or 2.
BTW--High Flight magazine is awesome for "ideas" such as this.
Wish I could say I thought of it-----
Old 11-19-2002, 08:30 PM
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NE0
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Default Keep it coming!

Guys,

Thanks for the responses, it looks like I'm going to have to choose a method for concealing them and go with it. I looked at some pics from Top Gun and it looked like they were all hidden.

I appreciate your suggestions and would really appreciate any of the pics/sketches you referred to. It's hard for me to visualize something like this and I don't want to screw it up. You can e-mail me or post the images, whichever you prefer. Links, text, photocopies, scans... anything you can provide will help.

Keep the good tips coming!

Thanks,

NE0
Old 11-19-2002, 08:44 PM
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Ta-152
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Default Hidden Horns

Neo, Take a look at the frise type ailerons, they have the pivot point down at the bottom of the surface. If the wing is thick enough at the aileron base, you'll probably have 3/4" to 1" for your horn height. Lay the servo on it's side and bury the arm in the wing.If you lay it out properly everything is hidden in the wing along with the aileron horn. I've done this on FWs and P40s. Jim G
Old 11-19-2002, 09:17 PM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

HH,

Bear with me (new to scale/wb's)... I don't know what "frise type" ailerons are? I do know that the ailerons on my SBD are hinged at the top of the surface, with the TE of the wing being straight up and down and the LE of the aileron being cut back under/into the ail about 30 degrees. Not sure just how thick it will be there, not where I can look at it right now.

Neo
Old 11-19-2002, 11:29 PM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Neo:

Here are the pics of the hidden aileron control on the Jerry Bates Hellcat. The aileron is hinged at the bottom.
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Old 11-19-2002, 11:30 PM
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k_sonn
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Here is a close up.
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Old 11-20-2002, 12:50 AM
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branded
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

I've used these in the past...Werks fer me...

Click on aircraft parts link...
http://www.kimbrough-products.com/

Here's a page that demonstrates their use...
I've used these on a Ziroli sized DC3 for flaps and airlerons.... They work great!!

http://www.proptwisters.org/rds2/
Old 11-20-2002, 03:59 AM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

NEO...

I know how you feel about external linkages. I'm building a TF Gold Edition Corsair which also has external linkages for the ailerons and flaps. To hide them I used the RDS method that Branded suggested.

I posted some pics of an installation at the end of an older thread in the Tips forum...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...354&forumid=63

The two pics at the end of the thread are of the bottom of an unsheeted Corsair wing. The trailing edge of the wing is pointing up. The left inboard flap and servo is being trial fitted.

Joshh
Old 11-20-2002, 12:32 PM
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Ben Diss
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

I think you need to do some research on the plane you're modeling. How are the original's hinged and where is the control linkage. You might find that it's not that big of a problem. On the Birddog that I'm building I found that the original has top surface hinges and an exposed control rod below.

-Ben
Old 11-20-2002, 02:07 PM
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Ta-152
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Default Hinges

Neo, The cross section of the ailerons on the Ziroli plans are set up for ease of construction, not to scale. Check out a good set of 3-views, they should show the scale cross section. You can use which ever technic fits. Jim G
Old 11-20-2002, 03:14 PM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Wow, what great ideas. I'll admit I'm a little unclear on a couple techniques, but I'll give it some time to sink in. Really appreciate your feedback, I'll just have to do some testing I guess.

BTW, my SBD is a Bates plan, not Ziroli. The ailerons look pretty scale to me, but I'll check against the 3-views again. I know that there are no external linkages on the SBD for sure.

Thanks,

Ne0
Old 11-21-2002, 01:26 PM
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G.F. Reid
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

NEO, sites like these may be of some assistance to you;
http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/sbd.html
http://www.thefreedomeagle.com/photos/sbdphotos.html
http://www.cybermodeler.com/sbd/sbd.shtml
Hard to find any good photos showing aileron details. This plane always attracts photographers to the dive brakes and the trapeze bomb rack. Heh, heh...
And finally, a truly accurate plastic display model can be indespensible to the scale RC modeler. The next link is to an absolutely beautiful plastic model of the "Slow but Deadly"
http://www.kitparade.com/features01/dauntlessrl_1.htm
Old 11-21-2002, 03:31 PM
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Default Great Pics!

Thanks for the Pix Links -- They're awesome! You're right, it's very tought to find any pics of the ailerons. Lotta dive brakes, bomb traps and cockpits... but no ailerons.

That plastic model by Mr. Lutz is drop-dead gorgeous. I really love the plastic scale stuff... I used to compete heavily in IPMS years ago. I think that's what got me so interested in scaling out a warbird.

Thnx!

NE0
Old 11-21-2002, 03:56 PM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Neo:

Here is a site I came across that has some pictures of an SBD-5: www.scaleaero.com/photofocus.htm. They are some nice aileron hinge pictures.
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Old 11-21-2002, 04:22 PM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Kirk,

You da man! That's exactly what I needed!

THANX

NE0
Old 11-21-2002, 04:54 PM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

Thanks Kirk for the posting the control horn schematics. This is the scale aileron and horn connection for FW190-D9. I was just about to make a huge mistake but your schematics set me straight. It makes me mad why I could not figure this out on my own :-(
Your the MAN
Old 11-21-2002, 04:58 PM
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Default Hidden control linkage options?

NEO, Foxx:

Thanks. Glad I could help out.

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