JDM FW190 "Black 3"
11-17-2009, 01:51 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
Well guys, I'm late in reporting in, but a couple weeks ago I finally got around to flying the maiden flight of "Black 3" and finally found some time to sit down and fill you in. After not ever really getting enough flying in this year to develop any sense of confidence, I still couldn't bare to see it hang on the wall another Winter without knowing whether it would be a real flyer or not... so I bit the bullet and took it to the field on what turned out to be a beautiful day.
I'll cut to the chase and tell you now that while the maiden was less than ideal, I did not have to bring it home in trash bag like the SBD, and it will fly again next season. Now here's the full report...
TAKEOFF:
Instead of gradually accelerating and building up speed down the runway, for some reason I firewalled the throttle and it started pulling hard left. I started feeding right rudder but found that it was not coming back so I buried the rudder right. It slowly started coming back to the runway but I was right at the edge still heading for corn stubble. Just as I was trying to decide whether to abort it made the decision for me and lept from the ground. The left wing immediately stalled and I was in a virtual knife edge 6" above the corn stubble for a couple seconds while I peed my pants.
I gave it right aileron and it leveled out immediately and started to climb... and climb it did.
TRIM:
The climbout was aggressive, maybe 45 degrees while I kept pumping down trim in. Right about the time it leveled out I heard my radio telling me that I had no more down trim left. But, it was OK, I had what I needed. Two clicks of right aileron and she was trimmed perfectly. Everything felt good once I convinced myself it wasn't tailheavy and it was going to behave.
FLIGHT:
After what happened with the SBD, I wasn't about to make the mistake of not keeping my speed up so I was heavy on the pedal for the whole flight. It tracked like it was on rails and flew extremely well. Not lightning fast, but very fast nonetheless. Time to try manuevers... Aileron rolls were fast and axial, Loops, Split-S and Half Cubans all were smooth and predictable.
Next were some high speed low passes over the runway. Aaaaaah, to see it screaming by up close was what I had been waiting for for over 2 years now and it didn't dissapoint. At this point I was having some real fun.
LANDING:
This is where I disconnected my brain and began acting like a first-year flyer. [:'(] I had full intentions of testing the flaps at high altitude and doing some dry runs slow over the runway before landing but for some unknown reason when I dropped the gear and made my first approach I just decided to go for it. I brought it in with no flaps as I wasn't sure how it would respond. Again, I don't know why I didn't just go high and find out.
At any rate, I wasn't prepared for how fast it would sink when I slowed down and just before ditching it prior to making the beginning of the runway I popped it up a couple feet to make sure I'd make the runway. Now I'm too high so I cut the throttle back a bit to get it sinking again. Instead of a gradual sink, the nose lowered a lot and it sunk fast at a high angle of attack. It landed on the mains, bounced and skidded a bit, kicked up the tail and came down on the spinner which dug deep into the muddy ground. The tail went straight up, the spinner pulled out of the mud and the plane was inverted about 3-4 feet in the air and pancaked onto it's back. It sounded like a car crash. [sm=confused_smile.gif]
DAMAGE REPORT:
Prepared for major damage, I walked over to upright the plane and found nothing more than a crushed carbon fiber spinner and broken prop. That's it. [sm=what_smile.gif] I couldn't believe it. As hard as it hit I expected much more damage. This is a testament to the strength of the JDM foam construction technique... and verifies my theory that WBpoly glassing is plenty strong enough. If you had seen and heard it hit, you'd agree. Even the spindly little antenna mast on the top of the tail fin drove deep into the ground but did not break or even crack.
POSTFLIGHT EVALUATION:
1) Need to adjust tailwheel a little and gradually build speed on takeoffs. Be more prepared for the left pull
2) The RCignitions G62 Engine performed flawlessly, tons of power, great speed, idles like a sewing machine
3) Airframe flies great, very responsive, quite fast, tracks well
4) Lands a little hot and sinks fast... Need to test and practice with flaps next time
5) Oleo struts were bottoming out, even setting still or taxiing... contribitued to landing problem
POSTFLIGHT ALTERATIONS PLANNED:
1) Need a new spinner and prop
2) Need to get stronger springs installed in Oleo Struts
3) Mechanically trim the elevators out and reset the TX trims
4) The lower gear doors were dragging in the grass, may try next flight without them
Overall, all things considered it was a successful maiden, considering the only real damage was the spinner and prop. The plane flies great so I'm really excited to get the repairs and tweaks done and try again next season. I'm sure that had I just used flaps it would have been a much better landing. I just have a tendancy to freeze up and do stupid things on maiden flights for some reason, but next time it won't be a maiden anymore.
I already spoke to Shindin Machine and he's hooked me up with a supplier for heavier springs that will work in my Shindin Main Gear Struts... that will help a lot too. Anything but a perfectly greased landing will bottom my current struts out hard.
I'm a little concerned about my lower gear doors dragging through the grass so I may take them out of the equation next season until I am really good at landing. Even then, I may choose to trim them back a little to avoid getting caught in the grass. Would not be an issue on a paved runway.
Well, I've gone on long enough, so cheers to you all and I hope to bring you an even better report next year.
Tom
I'll cut to the chase and tell you now that while the maiden was less than ideal, I did not have to bring it home in trash bag like the SBD, and it will fly again next season. Now here's the full report...
TAKEOFF:
Instead of gradually accelerating and building up speed down the runway, for some reason I firewalled the throttle and it started pulling hard left. I started feeding right rudder but found that it was not coming back so I buried the rudder right. It slowly started coming back to the runway but I was right at the edge still heading for corn stubble. Just as I was trying to decide whether to abort it made the decision for me and lept from the ground. The left wing immediately stalled and I was in a virtual knife edge 6" above the corn stubble for a couple seconds while I peed my pants.
I gave it right aileron and it leveled out immediately and started to climb... and climb it did.TRIM:
The climbout was aggressive, maybe 45 degrees while I kept pumping down trim in. Right about the time it leveled out I heard my radio telling me that I had no more down trim left. But, it was OK, I had what I needed. Two clicks of right aileron and she was trimmed perfectly. Everything felt good once I convinced myself it wasn't tailheavy and it was going to behave.
FLIGHT:
After what happened with the SBD, I wasn't about to make the mistake of not keeping my speed up so I was heavy on the pedal for the whole flight. It tracked like it was on rails and flew extremely well. Not lightning fast, but very fast nonetheless. Time to try manuevers... Aileron rolls were fast and axial, Loops, Split-S and Half Cubans all were smooth and predictable.
Next were some high speed low passes over the runway. Aaaaaah, to see it screaming by up close was what I had been waiting for for over 2 years now and it didn't dissapoint. At this point I was having some real fun.
LANDING:
This is where I disconnected my brain and began acting like a first-year flyer. [:'(] I had full intentions of testing the flaps at high altitude and doing some dry runs slow over the runway before landing but for some unknown reason when I dropped the gear and made my first approach I just decided to go for it. I brought it in with no flaps as I wasn't sure how it would respond. Again, I don't know why I didn't just go high and find out.
At any rate, I wasn't prepared for how fast it would sink when I slowed down and just before ditching it prior to making the beginning of the runway I popped it up a couple feet to make sure I'd make the runway. Now I'm too high so I cut the throttle back a bit to get it sinking again. Instead of a gradual sink, the nose lowered a lot and it sunk fast at a high angle of attack. It landed on the mains, bounced and skidded a bit, kicked up the tail and came down on the spinner which dug deep into the muddy ground. The tail went straight up, the spinner pulled out of the mud and the plane was inverted about 3-4 feet in the air and pancaked onto it's back. It sounded like a car crash. [sm=confused_smile.gif]
DAMAGE REPORT:
Prepared for major damage, I walked over to upright the plane and found nothing more than a crushed carbon fiber spinner and broken prop. That's it. [sm=what_smile.gif] I couldn't believe it. As hard as it hit I expected much more damage. This is a testament to the strength of the JDM foam construction technique... and verifies my theory that WBpoly glassing is plenty strong enough. If you had seen and heard it hit, you'd agree. Even the spindly little antenna mast on the top of the tail fin drove deep into the ground but did not break or even crack.
POSTFLIGHT EVALUATION:
1) Need to adjust tailwheel a little and gradually build speed on takeoffs. Be more prepared for the left pull
2) The RCignitions G62 Engine performed flawlessly, tons of power, great speed, idles like a sewing machine
3) Airframe flies great, very responsive, quite fast, tracks well
4) Lands a little hot and sinks fast... Need to test and practice with flaps next time
5) Oleo struts were bottoming out, even setting still or taxiing... contribitued to landing problem
POSTFLIGHT ALTERATIONS PLANNED:
1) Need a new spinner and prop
2) Need to get stronger springs installed in Oleo Struts
3) Mechanically trim the elevators out and reset the TX trims
4) The lower gear doors were dragging in the grass, may try next flight without them
Overall, all things considered it was a successful maiden, considering the only real damage was the spinner and prop. The plane flies great so I'm really excited to get the repairs and tweaks done and try again next season. I'm sure that had I just used flaps it would have been a much better landing. I just have a tendancy to freeze up and do stupid things on maiden flights for some reason, but next time it won't be a maiden anymore.
I already spoke to Shindin Machine and he's hooked me up with a supplier for heavier springs that will work in my Shindin Main Gear Struts... that will help a lot too. Anything but a perfectly greased landing will bottom my current struts out hard.
I'm a little concerned about my lower gear doors dragging through the grass so I may take them out of the equation next season until I am really good at landing. Even then, I may choose to trim them back a little to avoid getting caught in the grass. Would not be an issue on a paved runway.
Well, I've gone on long enough, so cheers to you all and I hope to bring you an even better report next year.
Tom
11-17-2009, 02:07 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
Hi Tom,
Nice to hear that it went better than last time. I think you can forgive yourself for a hard landing with a hot warbird that you're not familiar with. At least it behaved in the air!
As far as the soft oleos goes, I've had that problem in the past and it can be solved by inserting dowel stubs above the springs that compress them a little. Usually, a 1/2" stub is enough.
Maybe we will meet up some time at a warbird rally and I can chase you around with my new Top Flite P-51!
Jim
Nice to hear that it went better than last time. I think you can forgive yourself for a hard landing with a hot warbird that you're not familiar with. At least it behaved in the air!
As far as the soft oleos goes, I've had that problem in the past and it can be solved by inserting dowel stubs above the springs that compress them a little. Usually, a 1/2" stub is enough.
Maybe we will meet up some time at a warbird rally and I can chase you around with my new Top Flite P-51!
Jim
11-17-2009, 06:29 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
Tom, Great to see that it FLIES!! Congrats!
If I can be so bold to add, and I don't mean any offense here, my experience on many FW flights now has lead to one conclusion first above everything...never land without flaps. Like you, I've learned this the hard way a couple of times thinking "yeah, there's a headwind" or something like that...and every time I've regretted not putting them down. They make an enormous difference on the A version...as you found out. They make a huge difference in the amount of lift the wing gives you when you slow down, and you'll be able to land the plane so soft that it will surprise you with the difference they make. Even in a head wind...dump the flaps down, and you'll find the same thing I suspect. Even with the flaps the Holman versions will really bleed off speed fast when the throttle drops, but you'll get a lot more control and stability with them down. I don't even mess with half flaps...full down is the way to success.
Mike
If I can be so bold to add, and I don't mean any offense here, my experience on many FW flights now has lead to one conclusion first above everything...never land without flaps. Like you, I've learned this the hard way a couple of times thinking "yeah, there's a headwind" or something like that...and every time I've regretted not putting them down. They make an enormous difference on the A version...as you found out. They make a huge difference in the amount of lift the wing gives you when you slow down, and you'll be able to land the plane so soft that it will surprise you with the difference they make. Even in a head wind...dump the flaps down, and you'll find the same thing I suspect. Even with the flaps the Holman versions will really bleed off speed fast when the throttle drops, but you'll get a lot more control and stability with them down. I don't even mess with half flaps...full down is the way to success.
Mike
11-17-2009, 07:26 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
Thanks Mike, I'm sure you are right... live and learn.
There's no doubt it will be FLAPS DOWN for me the next time... no more stupid moves like this. At least there will "be" a next time this go around!
Tom
There's no doubt it will be FLAPS DOWN for me the next time... no more stupid moves like this. At least there will "be" a next time this go around!
Tom
11-17-2009, 09:24 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
ORIGINAL: NE0
Thanks Mike, I'm sure you are right... live and learn.
There's no doubt it will be FLAPS DOWN for me the next time... no more stupid moves like this. At least there will ''be'' a next time this go around!
Tom
Thanks Mike, I'm sure you are right... live and learn.
There's no doubt it will be FLAPS DOWN for me the next time... no more stupid moves like this. At least there will ''be'' a next time this go around!
Tom
I think you'll really start to think highly of the way it performs on approach with them. I always drop them after the final turn on approach and use throttle all the way in to touch down pretty much. With them down, it becomes a lot easier to 'fly the tail' in at a lower speed. I found that it took me a few flights to figure out what it will behave like, and then I was home free.
You're right on the rudder/throttle on take off too. Slow power up, and hang a little on the right rudder as you start. I've found it's easier to bleed off the rudder than to try to correct once it's drifting. Once the tail is up they'll track awesome and just fly themselves right off the turf when they're ready and trimmed in. On my last one, I just made once piece doors and hacked them off by about a half inch at the bottom to get better clearance. Not even really noticeable.
M.
11-17-2009, 11:39 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
I'm sure you're right on that one Mike, I can't wait to try again with flaps. What you described about takeoff sounds exactly like what I came away believing... I'm sure it will be easier now that I know what to expect. Thanks for the advice my friend, I'll take it to heart.
I got the building part down pretty good... it's the flying part that I have a lot to learn about with these scale birds... it ain't nothing like flying my big 3D birds that's for sure!
Tom
I got the building part down pretty good... it's the flying part that I have a lot to learn about with these scale birds... it ain't nothing like flying my big 3D birds that's for sure!
Tom
11-18-2009, 12:30 AM
#160
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RE: JDM FW190
hey Tom, congrats on bringing it in with minor damage . I have follow the build on your website and your a inspriation to the newbe guys like me and warbirds.
I am bashing a CMP Fw190 and I have visited your site often , great work and thanks again for sharing your experience
LDM
I am bashing a CMP Fw190 and I have visited your site often , great work and thanks again for sharing your experience
LDM
11-18-2009, 01:33 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
ORIGINAL: Baldeagle
Tom sounds like a very interesting flight. It gets easier now. [sm=thumbup.gif] Rich
Tom sounds like a very interesting flight. It gets easier now. [sm=thumbup.gif] Rich
Hehe thanks... I hope you're right.
Actually, I'm sure you're right... I can't wait to make a couple tweaks and get back on it. Next season should be a fun one... boy it's going to be a long Winter. [
]Tom
12-23-2009, 02:05 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
FYI, I just posted on my site today a "regurgitation" of the above flight report and finally managed to edit the flight video and get it posted. Don't get too excited, it's some pretty poor footage. The camera operator was not doing such a good job at keeping the plane in the frame and consequently the camera had a hard time focusing on it when he did.
I edited out about 3 minutes of nothing but "blue sky" and "I can't find it" remarks... but I think you can still get a good feel for how it flew from the footage that remained. Here's a link to the page with the video...
http://www.tompierce.net/190/html/pa...ightreport.htm
Merry Christmas all!
Tom
I edited out about 3 minutes of nothing but "blue sky" and "I can't find it" remarks... but I think you can still get a good feel for how it flew from the footage that remained. Here's a link to the page with the video...
http://www.tompierce.net/190/html/pa...ightreport.htm
Merry Christmas all!
Tom
12-23-2009, 11:17 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
Tom,
Congratulations for having a flight with a landing the pilot could walk away from! I check your site fairly regularly - I'm going to try your method for making display props but will be using balsa instead of pine. I'm glad your plane is repairable and look forward to seeing future flight reports and projects.
sam
Congratulations for having a flight with a landing the pilot could walk away from! I check your site fairly regularly - I'm going to try your method for making display props but will be using balsa instead of pine. I'm glad your plane is repairable and look forward to seeing future flight reports and projects.
sam
12-24-2009, 10:53 AM
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RE: JDM FW190
Yeah, I think probably you understated the flight there Tom. It flies awesome. The G62 on there really brings the 80" FW to life. Now that you've wrung it out, the next flights will be much easier going. Great job.
12-24-2009, 12:04 PM
#166
RE: JDM FW190
I am getting ready to start a 1/5 TA 152. I really appreciate your documenting the build of this aircraft. I will be studying all of your techniques as my TA will be intended for competition.
I have questions about the retracts though. It seems the Shindin might be a little cheaper than Sierras. Which would you prefer? Are you happy with your Shindin's other than the springs? What is your finished weight? And if my aircraft will be close to that, Will shindin install stiffer springs to start with? Thanks for any info you can provide.
I have questions about the retracts though. It seems the Shindin might be a little cheaper than Sierras. Which would you prefer? Are you happy with your Shindin's other than the springs? What is your finished weight? And if my aircraft will be close to that, Will shindin install stiffer springs to start with? Thanks for any info you can provide.
12-24-2009, 11:58 PM
#167
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RE: JDM FW190
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
I am getting ready to start a 1/5 TA 152. I really appreciate your documenting the build of this aircraft. I will be studying all of your techniques as my TA will be intended for competition.
I have questions about the retracts though. It seems the Shindin might be a little cheaper than Sierras. Which would you prefer? Are you happy with your Shindin's other than the springs? What is your finished weight? And if my aircraft will be close to that, Will shindin install stiffer springs to start with? Thanks for any info you can provide.
I am getting ready to start a 1/5 TA 152. I really appreciate your documenting the build of this aircraft. I will be studying all of your techniques as my TA will be intended for competition.
I have questions about the retracts though. It seems the Shindin might be a little cheaper than Sierras. Which would you prefer? Are you happy with your Shindin's other than the springs? What is your finished weight? And if my aircraft will be close to that, Will shindin install stiffer springs to start with? Thanks for any info you can provide.
As for the retracts, I can't compare to the Sierra gear as I have no experience with them. However, I do know that Lenny has redesigned his gear and made some drastic improvements over the ones I currently have. As for the springs, I'm sure he would use heavier springs if you told him up front that this is what you wanted. I wasn't aware of the issue when I ordered mine or I probably would have done so. I think they are great gear though and wouldn't hesitate to use them again.
Regards,
Tom
12-25-2009, 12:35 AM
#168
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RE: JDM FW190
Tom, great build. Your website is a great source of info and iinspiration. So how much was your 190 over the deign weight? Does it fly heavy at this weight? I am currently finishing the JDM Bearcat with some detail powered by the Magnum radial.
12-25-2009, 05:28 PM
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RE: JDM FW190
ORIGINAL: Ram-bro
Tom, great build. Your website is a great source of info and iinspiration. So how much was your 190 over the deign weight? Does it fly heavy at this weight? I am currently finishing the JDM Bearcat with some detail powered by the Magnum radial.
Tom, great build. Your website is a great source of info and iinspiration. So how much was your 190 over the deign weight? Does it fly heavy at this weight? I am currently finishing the JDM Bearcat with some detail powered by the Magnum radial.
Forest finished his originally at 24 pounds without going for a competition scale build, so I think that the best you could expect is about 23-24 pounds with scale retracts, wheels and flaps. Even then, you'd have to use a very light "non-scale" tailwheel to save an extra few ounces of ballast. Remember, an extra 2 ounces for a scale tailwheel requires about 6 ounces in the nose to balance... total of half a pound.
Let me put it this way, the engine, muffler, mounting bolts and gas tank weigh almost 5lbs, retracts are 2.5lbs. I've got 9 servos averaging about 2oz each, which totals almost 1-1/4 pounds! So all your servos, receiver, gas tank, prop, spinner, hardware, etc are gonna cost you another 3-4 pounds or more, and I can't see getting by without at least 1 lb noseweight. So without even building the airframe you are already at over 13 pounds. So, to hit 14-18 lbs you'd have to have an airframe that was 1-4 pounds. I don't see how that's possible, especially after sheeting, glassing, painting and clearcoating the whole plane... especially with panel lines and any scale details.
I still can't understand why I need 2lbs-14oz of lead in mine to balance. I expected 1 to 1.5lbs but not nearly 3lbs (especially with a G62 in the nose). I may be balanced a little noseheavy but according to specs I'm not. It didn't feel noseheavy during the maiden, so I'm not going to mess with the ballast at this point... I'll revisit that issue after I've flown it more.
Anyhow, as for whether it "flies heavy" it's really too early for me to say. I have only flown it for 5-6 minutes and I've been flying nothing but super-lightweight 3D planes for 6 years... so anything this big that weighs over 15-16 pounds feels heavy to me. I'm used to planes that are 10-20% bigger at about 60% of the weight of my 190. So, of course it flies heavy... it's a warbird.
Tom
12-26-2009, 10:05 PM
#172
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RE: JDM FW190
hey Tom , this is my rookie attempt to bash an ARF -Fw190 . I used your excellant thread and many of my aspects are all "first " based on your excellant website .
I just came in from the garage and I am on my third coat glassing my wings with your method , so far its been a piece of cake.
Thanks again for all the great info and details you provide , I found your website more helpful then any scale site I have ever visited
I just came in from the garage and I am on my third coat glassing my wings with your method , so far its been a piece of cake.
Thanks again for all the great info and details you provide , I found your website more helpful then any scale site I have ever visited
12-27-2009, 03:08 AM
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RE: JDM FW190
Very cool, nice job. The WB Poly method is the bees knees... and I think the landing on my maiden proved that it is durable enough.
What kit is it that you are "bashing" there? I take it that it is a "restoration" in the works?
Tom
What kit is it that you are "bashing" there? I take it that it is a "restoration" in the works?
Tom
12-27-2009, 03:46 AM
#174
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RE: JDM FW190
thats a highly modified CMP ARF LDM is working on there ,
I have to add, I have poached more than one of your tecniques off your build threads.
using the WB poly was a eureka moment for me, since I had been using the products for at least 15yrs for many work related projects, but would have never thought of using it for glassing a model,until I read your SBD tutorial,I really was dreading using epoxy since I had never tried it before.
I do like to use the Varathane Diamond satin finish for glassing my projects its the poly I prefer.
your model work is really outstanding, thanks for sharing with the rest of us.
I have to add, I have poached
more than one of your tecniques off your build threads.using the WB poly was a eureka moment for me, since I had been using the products for at least 15yrs for many work related projects, but would have never thought of using it for glassing a model,until I read your SBD tutorial,I really was dreading using epoxy since I had never tried it before.
I do like to use the Varathane Diamond satin finish for glassing my projects its the poly I prefer.
your model work is really outstanding, thanks for sharing with the rest of us.
12-27-2009, 07:48 AM
#175
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RE: JDM FW190
hi Tom , yes Tim is correct , I took a CMP Fw190 , scratch built the tail , added a sierra tail wheel with all the cables ect pre-run before incerting it . I scracth built the split flaps and there activated internally in the proper manner , scartch built the airlerons , sheeted the wings , took a basic IMP interior Kit and added about 75% of my own parts built (from many of your pictires and direction ).
Canopy slides on air cylender , again your ideas ect .
In the wings I moved all the servos ahead of the CG and ran 4-40 rods thru carbon fiber rods , this allowed zero flex , same with the fuse , all servos are far forward and ahead of the CG .
I am going to start my panel lines and fun stuff , agaIn all from your knowledge that your kind enough to share .
If you ever do a "scale builder CD " I would buy it , I think its guys like you that deserve the reward of your kindness in shareing great techniques .
Just for fun in my workshop I have the e-flight A-T6 texan , I am converting it over to a Dauntless , I am adding an interior made of light weight foam (potting foam ) then covered in thin plastic extremely light weight and appropriate for e-power . I am following your master piece documnted on your Dauntless .
Many guys have purchased the KMP/ESM Dauntless and refferance your site all the time ,
Thanks again for all yuor help
Lou
Canopy slides on air cylender , again your ideas ect .
In the wings I moved all the servos ahead of the CG and ran 4-40 rods thru carbon fiber rods , this allowed zero flex , same with the fuse , all servos are far forward and ahead of the CG .
I am going to start my panel lines and fun stuff , agaIn all from your knowledge that your kind enough to share .
If you ever do a "scale builder CD " I would buy it , I think its guys like you that deserve the reward of your kindness in shareing great techniques .
Just for fun in my workshop I have the e-flight A-T6 texan , I am converting it over to a Dauntless , I am adding an interior made of light weight foam (potting foam ) then covered in thin plastic extremely light weight and appropriate for e-power . I am following your master piece documnted on your Dauntless .
Many guys have purchased the KMP/ESM Dauntless and refferance your site all the time ,
Thanks again for all yuor help
Lou
