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Moki 210

Old 07-30-2006, 09:44 PM
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kmtranmd
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Default Moki 210

Anyone know the optimal rpm range for Moki 210 and 180? I'm getting only 7600 rpm on apc 20x8, 15% nitro on a Moki 210 and that does not seem right. What are the ideal wood prop sizes for Moki 210, using it on a warbird?
Old 07-30-2006, 10:30 PM
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stephanmk1
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Default RE: Moki 210

moki 210: 20x10 prop at 7500 - 7800 rpm.......20x8 prop just too small [:-]
moki 210:22x8 prop at 7000-7500 rpm

good luck!
Old 07-30-2006, 11:25 PM
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mugenkidd
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Default RE: Moki 210

If you have the original Moki, then that engine is not tuned for 15% nitro, and will not run right. Use no more than 5% nitro in it (or 0%) and you should see better performance. I'm running an apc 18x12 at about 7800 rpm on the ground.
Old 07-31-2006, 09:40 AM
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Jeff Foley
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Default RE: Moki 210

mugendkidd is right.....15% is too much nitro for this engine. I have been running the 210 for a few years and get the best results with 5% Omega fuel, APC 20x8 and a OS 4-stroke plug. Also keep in mind that if your engine is new, it will take a few gallons of fuel to get it broken in. After break-in, I am getting about 8200 with the set up above. I am also using the Cline regulator fuel system, which I highly recommend. This system pressurises the fuel tank and forces fuel to the engine through a regulator which allows the engine to pull what it needs.
Old 07-31-2006, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Moki 210

Mike is right,15% is way too much nitro.5% or 0% is what these engine runs best on.I have the 210 and 180 and they run beautifully on 5% or 0% and I use a 20-10 for the 210 and 18-10 for the 180.These engines take a long time to break in,so take your time and you will get one of the best 2 strokes made.Once you get used to starting these engines inverted they are a pleasure to start.One or two back flips and she purrs. The 210 is in my TFGS P51 and the 180 is in my H9 P47.Tom
Old 08-01-2006, 06:52 AM
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JL1
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Default RE: Moki 210

I have 5 Moki's and all run VERY well with no nitro and an OS "f" plug
Old 08-02-2006, 09:25 AM
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kmtranmd
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Default RE: Moki 210

Hi Prop Wash,
I have the Moki 210 in a Topflite GS P51 too. Engine sometimes hard to start cold and other times starts right up with one jump from starter. I'm never a finger flip kind of guy. Don't know what the correct priming/starting sequence should be. Motor is inverted so probably has usual challenge of flooding at the start. Reason I use 15% nitro is that Moki instructions says it's ok and I'm not using onboard glow in the P51 and want a good idle. I tried 5% fuel before and not notice much difference other than idle, so not sure what you guys mean by "run best" on 5%. The 15% nitro gives very reliable idle, no flame out yet after 3 flights with no on board glow. I had 2 flame outs using 5% fuel initially, and had onboard glow on too. Just my 2 cents there on nitro question. Regarding wood props, I'm trying out the Menz and Xoar ones from Desert Aircraft. Look well made and priced in same range as those cheap/thin Topflite wood props. Anyone tried these out yet??
Old 08-02-2006, 12:49 PM
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JL1
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Default RE: Moki 210

In my case, a good idle means letting it set for 10 minutes at 2500 rpm and opening to full throttle without stumbling or stalling.
Mine do it on zero nitro which is a LOT cheaper than 15%. I mix my own fuel which is 20% Klotz oil and 80% methanol.
In my opinion, unless you are looking for a small increase in power output, using nitro in these engines is a complete waste of money.
Old 08-02-2006, 05:42 PM
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cougar347
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Default RE: Moki 210

kmtranmd

Not sure where you're getting your information. I'm looking at the instructions that came with my Moki 2.10. It says, and I quote, "After break in, you can add nitro if you wish. However, these engines run fine without nitro. The recommended nitro content is 5% maximum for most applications, 10% is recommended only for cold weather and/or high altitude operation." It says nothing at all about running a 15% nitro mixture under any circumstances.

It is my understanding that these engines were designed to be operated in Europe, where nitro is very expensive. The intention was for them to run without any nitro. They run very high compression compared to our other types of glow engines. Yours may run fine for a while on a mixture of 15%, but I would think that you're putting an additional strain on the piston/rod/crank assembly with the higher percentage of nitro. Maybe not, maybe it will be fine and last for a long time.

I've been using blended fuel that contains about 2% nitro in both my 2.10 and my 1.80, and they run fine on that fuel. I've also run Omega 5% (castor, not the synthetic) and it works fine also (just add in about 3 ounces of extra castor/gallon). As JL1 mentioned, it's a lot cheaper to buy the 0-5% fuel.

Is it possible that you have one of the newer Mark engines that were modified to run on a higher percentage of nitro?

Just as a reference, I have my 2.10 Moki mounted on my 80" OMP Edge 540 profile that weighs 10 lbs 10 ounces. I'm using a wooden Bambula 20 X 8 prop. It runs great with that combination. Starts first back flip every time. I do have a 20 X 10 Bambula that I'm going to try just to see how it works, but I really like the quick spool up with the 20 X 8.

On a separate note-my hobby shop offers two different K & B 1L plugs-short and long. Anyone know which one of those plugs belongs in these Moki motors? In the instructions, Moki recommends them as one of the plugs to try and I want to make sure I put the proper one in there. I remember reading somewhere in here that McCoy makes a plug that works good in the Moki's also. Anyone have any information on that?

thanks
Old 11-09-2006, 12:24 AM
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Big Davo
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Default RE: Moki 210

Can anybody advise me what size tank I should use for the Moki 210
Old 11-09-2006, 08:10 AM
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carlbecker
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Default RE: Moki 210

The bigger the better, my 1.8 went through about 2 ounces a minute if I remember correctly. Big Glow motors suck down fuel. I used 5% in my Moki 1.8 and it ran great.

Carl
Old 11-09-2006, 09:46 AM
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mdelzer
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Default RE: Moki 210

This is slightly of topic, but does anyone know where to get the Moki's now? Also does anyone know if the Dave Patrick Blue head is made for higher nitro or will it run on 0% and 5% too? Or what about the Mark engines? It seems there is a shortage of these around these days, anyone know anything?

Mark
Old 11-09-2006, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: Moki 210

The Dave Patrick Moki (a reseller) is the same engine with a blue head. Same fuel specs and al,l with a pretty blue head. Do a search, the owners manual is online.

Steve
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Old 11-09-2006, 10:31 AM
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carlbecker
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Default RE: Moki 210

The Dave Patrick Moki is a bit different. Lower compression to handle a bit more nitro. I believe up to 10%. Staight Moki's like 0-5%. If you can use just one fuel like 10% then the Patrick Moki might be of interest.

Carl
Old 11-09-2006, 10:37 AM
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mdelzer
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Default RE: Moki 210

So if I'm following what your saying, the ONLY difference is it is anodized blue. I had been under the impression that it had a different compression ratio. I'll do a search for the manual. Thanks.

Mark
Old 11-09-2006, 10:52 AM
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carlbecker
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Default RE: Moki 210

I believe the difference is the head. The Patrick Moki has less compression to handle higher nitro (I would guess just a bit). There is a difference beyond color. If you do some more research you will find most people use 0-5% in there Moki's, Patrick says I believe up to 10% nitro. Its common practice to change the height of the combustion chamber to change the compression ratio. More area at TDC equal less compression, less area is more compression. If you shim a head you reduce compression. If you remove material from the head in the combustion area the compression is reduced also.

Carl
Old 11-09-2006, 05:15 PM
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Default RE: Moki 210

When I bought this engine directly form Mr. Patrick himself whilee at the Ontario, Ca. model show, Mr. Patrick, at that time had no idea as to what fuel, horsepower, prop,ect, to run this engine. It did not even come with instructions or paper work of any kind.

So I concluded............. same engine that can handle no more than 5% nitro. Nitro basically advances the "spark" according to one of rc magazines.


Nothing personal, just an observation

Steve
Old 11-09-2006, 07:27 PM
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cougar347
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Default RE: Moki 210

Dave Patrick's modified Moki's will run on 5 to 15 % Nitro. All you have to do is check his website:

http://www.davepatrickmodels.com/frame.htm

He also gives you recommendations for props, tells you that the motor produces 5 HP, etc, etc.

I'm amazed that he wouldn't have known this information when you spoke to him, as I believe the motors are manufactured to his specifications. Maybe not.
Old 11-09-2006, 09:23 PM
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Default RE: Moki 210

I had the feeling Dave Patrick had just imported them that year. It may have been a new product for him. He didn't even have a web site at that time, he gave me his personal email to contact him.

Live and learn.

Steve
Old 11-09-2006, 11:26 PM
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Big Davo
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Default RE: Moki 210

I put a Moki 210 in a minicraft edge 540 (78" wing span) with a 21 x 8 Bolly wood prop. The package weighed about 13lb. If you like going up hill with real authority great combination. Previous to Bolly prop I has an APC 20 x 8 it was quite heavy and didn't perform as well as the wood prop.
By the way do you guys use the OS 4 stroke plugs in your Moki's.
Old 11-10-2006, 07:30 AM
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cougar347
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Default RE: Moki 210

The OS F is the only plug I'll use. It works great.
Old 11-25-2006, 04:56 PM
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MadDog35
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Default RE: Moki 210

I have the blue head 1.35 with about 3 galons of 5% with bean oil through it. This puppy runs great on cheap fuel. I am easily getting 9200 rpm with an apc 16-8 prop on my Ultimate 1.20.
Old 11-26-2006, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Moki 210

As for the Moki starting inverted,I always add fuel untill it comes out of the Pitts muffler.Sometimes I have to take the glow plug out and clear it of excess fuel.Then I add glow and back flip the spinner and she starts just about every time[1 st flip] I never use a electric starter on "ANY" of my engines.If it won't start by hand I'm either doing something wrong or the engine is not adjusted right.I have a Saito 180 that is the same way,one flip maybe two.
0%-5% for the Moki 210& 180. 15% for the Saito 180.Just make sure that you have plenty of castor oil for the Moki's.p.s. I don't use an on board glow or any pumps for the fuel pressure.Tom
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Old 12-21-2006, 04:39 PM
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MadDog35
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Default RE: Moki 210

My friend had a Moki 1.80 which he tried to run for a season a few years ago. He said it ran fine on the ground, had tons of power but keep dying during flight. He tried the klien regulator and every other trick in the book. He didnt want to lose his expensive plane so he finaly stuffed it back in the box and put it out of sight. He has been running an O.S. 1.60 with no problems ever since.

I told him of my luck with the blue head 1.35 and he said I could take the moki and try to figure it out. Well I'm happy to say this motor runs awesome and can way outpull the OS 1.60. The problem was very simple and you guys have been saying it all along. As most of us know the Moki has very high compression to compensate for the lack of nitro available in europe. I just put the same 5% with castor that I use in my blue head and she runs perfect. My friend was running 30% heli fuel and it must have been pre=detonating. The other trick is to stay with the os F-plug especialy if you want to invert the motor. Please do not try to start these motors by hand unless you back flip them. They will backfire and bite your hand off it you try to flip them forward. Just Prime the motor till its good and wet. You will hear a nice squishy sound when you get it wet enough. Then attach the glow and give the spinner cone a gental twist backwards so it bumps compresion and bounces forward and if you primed it right it will start every time.

Gobs of power on cheap fuel. I do not think you can get a bettter 2 stoke motor. Not to mention the awesome sound of these things. They just ping at idle. The trick to the idle is basicaly dont mess with it for at least 3 to 5 gallons. You should be able to get the motor to idle for at least 5 min at a very low rpm ( 2200-1300 rpm consistant idle ) and then slam it open and get great response. I would not try to break a moki in the air. Run at least 2 gallons on the ground and do not lean it out at first. Run motor very rich for short time periods until you get a few gallons of caster through it then start to lean. You will be very happy if you follow this simple advice.

Good luck
Mike.
Old 12-21-2006, 05:02 PM
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MadDog35
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Default RE: Moki 210


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