YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
09-25-2007, 07:09 PM
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YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
Has anyone ever put a YS 160 DZ on the 60 size Hanger 9 mustang before? I want to over motor this plane but I hear it can't handle the extra power. Any experience and input are appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
09-25-2007, 07:50 PM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: bigtim
its a bit big for that plane I would think, unless tearing off the tail is your goal,mine has a OS 91fs and it flys plenty fast.
the rudder and elevator isn't what I would call over built on the H-9 Mustang.
its a bit big for that plane I would think, unless tearing off the tail is your goal,mine has a OS 91fs and it flys plenty fast.
the rudder and elevator isn't what I would call over built on the H-9 Mustang.
Hey thanks for the input.
I over motor my 46 size World's model mustang with a YS 110 FZ, and it flies great. I want to do the same thing with the 60 size but people have been telling me the h9 model can't take it while the 60 size World's Model can. Maybe I can brace the tail feathers to take the extra speed. How about the wing, can it take additional force from a dive at WOT?
09-25-2007, 10:29 PM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
I dont think its overkill as much as just down right dangerous. If you get more than a few flights out of that combo I would be suprised.
the firewall will rip out and someone will most likely get hurt.
the firewall will rip out and someone will most likely get hurt.
09-26-2007, 12:31 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: MicroDat
people have been telling me the h9 model can't take it
people have been telling me the h9 model can't take it
09-26-2007, 02:22 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: lownloud
I dont think its overkill as much as just down right dangerous. If you get more than a few flights out of that combo I would be suprised.
the firewall will rip out and someone will most likely get hurt.
I dont think its overkill as much as just down right dangerous. If you get more than a few flights out of that combo I would be suprised.
the firewall will rip out and someone will most likely get hurt.
Richard L., do you think if I carbon fiber rod the tail feathers, epoxy the backside of the firewall and baking soda+thin CA any balsa wood the ARF would be able to handle the 160 DZ? If not I'll just buy a 60 size WM stang
09-26-2007, 09:58 AM
#8
RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: MicroDat
Richard L., do you think if I carbon fiber rod the tail feathers, epoxy the backside of the firewall and baking soda+thin CA any balsa wood the ARF would be able to handle the 160 DZ?
Richard L., do you think if I carbon fiber rod the tail feathers, epoxy the backside of the firewall and baking soda+thin CA any balsa wood the ARF would be able to handle the 160 DZ?
09-26-2007, 11:18 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
What you will need to do is to replace at least the horizontal stab with a new one made of solid balsa. Use the hardest balsa you can find. You will need the tail weight anyway.
I had an O.S. 1.20 Surpass in mine running 30% helimix fuel. The stab fluttered pretty bad at around half throttle during a test flight so I made this mod and never had another problem. I used a 14X10 APC prop and was consistently around 125mph.
Get some heavy glass cloth, like 6 ounce or so, and cut into small pieces. Soak in epoxy and press these into the inside fuselage/firewall joint all around the joint. Maybe two layers of this and you won't have any firewall issues.
Sounds like a cool project to me.
I had an O.S. 1.20 Surpass in mine running 30% helimix fuel. The stab fluttered pretty bad at around half throttle during a test flight so I made this mod and never had another problem. I used a 14X10 APC prop and was consistently around 125mph.
Get some heavy glass cloth, like 6 ounce or so, and cut into small pieces. Soak in epoxy and press these into the inside fuselage/firewall joint all around the joint. Maybe two layers of this and you won't have any firewall issues.
Sounds like a cool project to me.
09-26-2007, 12:29 PM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: Steve Collins
What you will need to do is to replace at least the horizontal stab with a new one made of solid balsa. Use the hardest balsa you can find. You will need the tail weight anyway.
I had an O.S. 1.20 Surpass in mine running 30% helimix fuel. The stab fluttered pretty bad at around half throttle during a test flight so I made this mod and never had another problem. I used a 14X10 APC prop and was consistently around 125mph.
Get some heavy glass cloth, like 6 ounce or so, and cut into small pieces. Soak in epoxy and press these into the inside fuselage/firewall joint all around the joint. Maybe two layers of this and you won't have any firewall issues.
Sounds like a cool project to me.
What you will need to do is to replace at least the horizontal stab with a new one made of solid balsa. Use the hardest balsa you can find. You will need the tail weight anyway.
I had an O.S. 1.20 Surpass in mine running 30% helimix fuel. The stab fluttered pretty bad at around half throttle during a test flight so I made this mod and never had another problem. I used a 14X10 APC prop and was consistently around 125mph.
Get some heavy glass cloth, like 6 ounce or so, and cut into small pieces. Soak in epoxy and press these into the inside fuselage/firewall joint all around the joint. Maybe two layers of this and you won't have any firewall issues.
Sounds like a cool project to me.
Wish me luck as I over motor another Mustang. I'll post pictures of my 46 size, YS 110 FZ mustang, it does 135 flat, 150 out of a dive with some tail wind. I'm hoping to get this one to 160+.
09-26-2007, 01:38 PM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
...in a .60 sized toy Stang'? NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!
A couple of the lads here have G62's in theirs and there's at least one .40 P51 using a 1.60 DZ.
He gets about 22 seconds flying time before it's tanks empty, dead sticking time...and man, does that little mutant b#stard drop like a brick!
Still he's happy with those 22secs even though he has to hold in full right rudder from take off until landing.
Surprizing as he'd already built in 22degs of right thrust. Still thats POWER for YOU!
No beating it...specially if you want to make a total prat out of yourself.
Enjoy.
A couple of the lads here have G62's in theirs and there's at least one .40 P51 using a 1.60 DZ.
He gets about 22 seconds flying time before it's tanks empty, dead sticking time...and man, does that little mutant b#stard drop like a brick!
Still he's happy with those 22secs even though he has to hold in full right rudder from take off until landing.
Surprizing as he'd already built in 22degs of right thrust. Still thats POWER for YOU!
No beating it...specially if you want to make a total prat out of yourself.
Enjoy.
09-26-2007, 03:19 PM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: bla bla
...in a .60 sized toy Stang'? NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!
A couple of the lads here have G62's in theirs and there's at least one .40 P51 using a 1.60 DZ.
He gets about 22 seconds flying time before it's tanks empty, dead sticking time...and man, does that little mutant b#stard drop like a brick!
Still he's happy with those 22secs even though he has to hold in full right rudder from take off until landing.
Surprizing as he'd already built in 22degs of right thrust. Still thats POWER for YOU!
No beating it...specially if you want to make a total prat out of yourself.
Enjoy.
...in a .60 sized toy Stang'? NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!
A couple of the lads here have G62's in theirs and there's at least one .40 P51 using a 1.60 DZ.
He gets about 22 seconds flying time before it's tanks empty, dead sticking time...and man, does that little mutant b#stard drop like a brick!
Still he's happy with those 22secs even though he has to hold in full right rudder from take off until landing.
Surprizing as he'd already built in 22degs of right thrust. Still thats POWER for YOU!
No beating it...specially if you want to make a total prat out of yourself.
Enjoy.
09-26-2007, 11:14 PM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: jeffk464
All of the guys in the speed forum seem to recommend engines from jett for speed, probably the jet 90 for you stang.
All of the guys in the speed forum seem to recommend engines from jett for speed, probably the jet 90 for you stang.
Well I love warbirds, so putting a turbine defeats the purpose of my build. Plus I can't even imagine how I would put a turbine on that thing.
09-27-2007, 01:44 AM
#15
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
Its not a turbine, jett is just the name of the company. They are glow engines, supposedly just with a lot more power than "sport" engines.
http://www.jettengineering.com/engines/bseF100.html
http://www.jettengineering.com/engines/bseF100.html
09-27-2007, 05:11 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: MicroDat
Well I love warbirds, so putting a turbine defeats the purpose of my build. Plus I can't even imagine how I would put a turbine on that thing.
ORIGINAL: jeffk464
All of the guys in the speed forum seem to recommend engines from jett for speed, probably the jet 90 for you stang.
All of the guys in the speed forum seem to recommend engines from jett for speed, probably the jet 90 for you stang.
Well I love warbirds, so putting a turbine defeats the purpose of my build. Plus I can't even imagine how I would put a turbine on that thing.
What are you saying, Several war birds use jet engines... this could be your answer. Strap a couple of turbines under each wing, that together with the DZ should give you that extra uuummph you're looking for.
Come on, go for it.
And post pictures.
09-27-2007, 07:44 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
IMHO you are seriously over powering the structure to the point of potentially having a catastrophic failure which you will not be able to determine when or where. I am real glad you are not flying at my fields. If you have the need for speed why don't you get something designed for the stress? This is far more dangerous than a proper turbine setup with safety equipment and training. I have been to large events where people seem to lose all sense of what they are doing and it can be scary, so far I have not witnessed anyone getting injured but I suspect its only a matter of time.
You will be increasing the weight of the entire structure and loads accordingly. If you do have a major problem it could affect all of us who enjoy this hobby. I wish you where more responsible and considerate of the rest of us.
You will be increasing the weight of the entire structure and loads accordingly. If you do have a major problem it could affect all of us who enjoy this hobby. I wish you where more responsible and considerate of the rest of us.
09-27-2007, 07:59 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
I fly pattern and we overpower our planes. There is a big difference though, the planes we are using are built for the extra power. The other thing two is that we are not putting almost triple the power needed to rip the firewall clean off the plane. That amount of power is going to make the wing of loading of the plane high and its going to drop like a brick. Just remeber, with that much power you may not have had a flight failure yet, but trust you will eventually. The amount of stress you are putting on the airframe from just vibration alone as well and the G's your putting on the plane will cause failure. This is what physics is all about. I agree with carlbecker, its sounds like there is way to much area for flight failure.
09-27-2007, 08:11 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
Don't let these guys... or even common sense, put you off.
There's always some spoil sports around to try and one you on the straight and narrow.
Get the DZ and the turbines and strap 'em on that airframe.
Light the blue touch paper and stand back.
A good in-flight airframe failure is just to much to miss. They're so funny.
Remember to YouTube the event.
There's always some spoil sports around to try and one you on the straight and narrow.
Get the DZ and the turbines and strap 'em on that airframe.
Light the blue touch paper and stand back.
A good in-flight airframe failure is just to much to miss. They're so funny.
Remember to YouTube the event.
09-27-2007, 09:21 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
I once had a Great Planes .46 size P-51 with an O.S. 1.20 Surpass in it (midair, not any sort of structural failure). Lots of extra engine weight up front countered with making a hatch and installing all servos behind the trailing edge of the wing along with a fair amount of lead ballast just in front of the rudder inside the fuselage.
Now anyone who has ever flown a Great Planes P-51 knows that it has to be one of the sweetest flying P-51 models ever. I couldn't tell any difference at all in the flying and handling characteristics of this plane. Perhaps the only downside was the residual thrust at idle. The plane flys so well that it would glide a very long time before it would touch down.
A friend has the same airframe only he used a Y.S. 1.40 in his. His was set up the same as mine with the servos all behind the wing. This one was radared at 145mph. The residual thrust was greater on this one simply from the size of propeller needed for that engine. It was very hard to get this plane to land with the engine running. I helped him retrofit it with split flaps which solved the problem.
Both of these planes were like gliders with the engine not running, despite the additional weight. You will find the same is true on your project especially since your chosen airframe has a lot more wing area.
Both of the above planes were used in warbird pylon racing. It is difficult to comprehend a higher "G" turn than those made during a pylon race. Not the least sign of any kind of structural failure. No vibration problems. No firewall problems. Nothing at all.
There will always be a lot of nay sayers who have little or no experience with this sort of thing.
Now anyone who has ever flown a Great Planes P-51 knows that it has to be one of the sweetest flying P-51 models ever. I couldn't tell any difference at all in the flying and handling characteristics of this plane. Perhaps the only downside was the residual thrust at idle. The plane flys so well that it would glide a very long time before it would touch down.
A friend has the same airframe only he used a Y.S. 1.40 in his. His was set up the same as mine with the servos all behind the wing. This one was radared at 145mph. The residual thrust was greater on this one simply from the size of propeller needed for that engine. It was very hard to get this plane to land with the engine running. I helped him retrofit it with split flaps which solved the problem.
Both of these planes were like gliders with the engine not running, despite the additional weight. You will find the same is true on your project especially since your chosen airframe has a lot more wing area.
Both of the above planes were used in warbird pylon racing. It is difficult to comprehend a higher "G" turn than those made during a pylon race. Not the least sign of any kind of structural failure. No vibration problems. No firewall problems. Nothing at all.
There will always be a lot of nay sayers who have little or no experience with this sort of thing.
09-27-2007, 09:49 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
Warbird racing is my thing so I have experience overpowering them. I f you put a YS 1.60 DZ in a .60 size Hangar 9 plane, and you want to do high-G pylon turns, or pull out of high speed dives, you must beef up 3 areas.
1) Firewall
2) Stab
3) Wing
If you do not, the aircraft may not come apart in the first high-G turn, but over time, cracks will develop and sooner or later (probably sooner) you will find yourself flying an aircraft with one wing (lots of roll action) or no stab (vertical nose plant).
Been there, done that.
Even with proper beef-ups, you must still inspect the plane regularly for cracks and loose stuff.
1) Firewall
2) Stab
3) Wing
If you do not, the aircraft may not come apart in the first high-G turn, but over time, cracks will develop and sooner or later (probably sooner) you will find yourself flying an aircraft with one wing (lots of roll action) or no stab (vertical nose plant).
Been there, done that.
Even with proper beef-ups, you must still inspect the plane regularly for cracks and loose stuff.
09-27-2007, 10:06 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: Steve Collins
I once had a Great Planes .46 size P-51 with an O.S. 1.20 Surpass in it (midair, not any sort of structural failure). Lots of extra engine weight up front countered with making a hatch and installing all servos behind the trailing edge of the wing along with a fair amount of lead ballast just in front of the rudder inside the fuselage.
Now anyone who has ever flown a Great Planes P-51 knows that it has to be one of the sweetest flying P-51 models ever. I couldn't tell any difference at all in the flying and handling characteristics of this plane. Perhaps the only downside was the residual thrust at idle. The plane flys so well that it would glide a very long time before it would touch down.
A friend has the same airframe only he used a Y.S. 1.40 in his. His was set up the same as mine with the servos all behind the wing. This one was radared at 145mph. The residual thrust was greater on this one simply from the size of propeller needed for that engine. It was very hard to get this plane to land with the engine running. I helped him retrofit it with split flaps which solved the problem.
Both of these planes were like gliders with the engine not running, despite the additional weight. You will find the same is true on your project especially since your chosen airframe has a lot more wing area.
Both of the above planes were used in warbird pylon racing. It is difficult to comprehend a higher "G" turn than those made during a pylon race. Not the least sign of any kind of structural failure. No vibration problems. No firewall problems. Nothing at all.
There will always be a lot of nay sayers who have little or no experience with this sort of thing.
I once had a Great Planes .46 size P-51 with an O.S. 1.20 Surpass in it (midair, not any sort of structural failure). Lots of extra engine weight up front countered with making a hatch and installing all servos behind the trailing edge of the wing along with a fair amount of lead ballast just in front of the rudder inside the fuselage.
Now anyone who has ever flown a Great Planes P-51 knows that it has to be one of the sweetest flying P-51 models ever. I couldn't tell any difference at all in the flying and handling characteristics of this plane. Perhaps the only downside was the residual thrust at idle. The plane flys so well that it would glide a very long time before it would touch down.
A friend has the same airframe only he used a Y.S. 1.40 in his. His was set up the same as mine with the servos all behind the wing. This one was radared at 145mph. The residual thrust was greater on this one simply from the size of propeller needed for that engine. It was very hard to get this plane to land with the engine running. I helped him retrofit it with split flaps which solved the problem.
Both of these planes were like gliders with the engine not running, despite the additional weight. You will find the same is true on your project especially since your chosen airframe has a lot more wing area.
Both of the above planes were used in warbird pylon racing. It is difficult to comprehend a higher "G" turn than those made during a pylon race. Not the least sign of any kind of structural failure. No vibration problems. No firewall problems. Nothing at all.
There will always be a lot of nay sayers who have little or no experience with this sort of thing.
I'll post a few pictures of my mustang and what I did to brace the plane to help it fly that fast. I'll even try to put a video of us flying 8 of these warbirds in formation
09-27-2007, 10:11 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: PJ_TankPilot
Warbird racing is my thing so I have experience overpowering them. I f you put a YS 1.60 DZ in a .60 size Hangar 9 plane, and you want to do high-G pylon turns, or pull out of high speed dives, you must beef up 3 areas.
1) Firewall
2) Stab
3) Wing
If you do not, the aircraft may not come apart in the first high-G turn, but over time, cracks will develop and sooner or later (probably sooner) you will find yourself flying an aircraft with one wing (lots of roll action) or no stab (vertical nose plant).
Been there, done that.
Even with proper beef-ups, you must still inspect the plane regularly for cracks and loose stuff.
Warbird racing is my thing so I have experience overpowering them. I f you put a YS 1.60 DZ in a .60 size Hangar 9 plane, and you want to do high-G pylon turns, or pull out of high speed dives, you must beef up 3 areas.
1) Firewall
2) Stab
3) Wing
If you do not, the aircraft may not come apart in the first high-G turn, but over time, cracks will develop and sooner or later (probably sooner) you will find yourself flying an aircraft with one wing (lots of roll action) or no stab (vertical nose plant).
Been there, done that.
Even with proper beef-ups, you must still inspect the plane regularly for cracks and loose stuff.
braced firewall
carved out room for a 20 oz tank
used only elbow bends on any control rod
shimmer the landing gear to compensate for the added nose weight
fuel tube the cowling so the vibration doesn't cut into my fuel line
I know people who get 100+ flights out of this setup.
I constantly check my plane to make sure the g-force and vibration doesn't cause any cracks or weak points.
09-27-2007, 10:36 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: MicroDat
Who makes your kit/arf's? I use world's model 46 stang and the only mods I make are:
Who makes your kit/arf's? I use world's model 46 stang and the only mods I make are:
I also race Hangar 9 planes in the Silver class but to be competitive in our Gold class, I have to scratch build planes designed for racing.
Here is a before and after picture of a recent H9 plane that I did not beef up the wing quite enough. This happened in the 10th race heat.
09-27-2007, 11:28 AM
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RE: YS 160DZ on a Hanger 9 .60 size mustang
ORIGINAL: PJ_TankPilot
I used to have a WM .46 stang with a YS 1.10 (it is the one in my avitar) I did move the firewall back and beefed up the stab. This is the most popular aircraft at our races and I have seen multiple failures of stabs and wings. Maybe they are using better wood now or it is the luck of the draw.
I also race Hangar 9 planes in the Silver class but to be competitive in our Gold class, I have to scratch build planes designed for racing.
Here is a before and after picture of a recent H9 plane that I did not beef up the wing quite enough. This happened in the 10th race heat.
ORIGINAL: MicroDat
Who makes your kit/arf's? I use world's model 46 stang and the only mods I make are:
Who makes your kit/arf's? I use world's model 46 stang and the only mods I make are:
I also race Hangar 9 planes in the Silver class but to be competitive in our Gold class, I have to scratch build planes designed for racing.
Here is a before and after picture of a recent H9 plane that I did not beef up the wing quite enough. This happened in the 10th race heat.
I've seen many tail feathers come undone but its not the ARF's fault but rather the control horn coming loose and causing vibrations which eventually rips the stab's off. Before each day I check to make sure all my control surfaces, servo's, and servo horns are ok.
What did you do to your stabs to make them more durable?