SECRET AGENT

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Ok warbird guys (and gals if applicable), what is the better choice for my Ziroli P-40...a G-62 or a Brison 4.2???? Let the debate begin!

STUKA BARRY

SORRY SECRET AGENT, BUT THERE IS REALLY NO DEBATE. YOUR COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES. A 3.7MAG CANT COMPETE WITH A 4.2 ELECTRONIC. ALTHOUGH ITS TRUE THAT BOTH ENGINES WILL FLY A ZIROLI P-40, WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN AN ENGINE? PRICE? RELIABLILTY? FUEL CONSUMPTION? EASE OF STARTING? PERFORMANCE? THESE ARE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS.

SECRET AGENT

My Feedback: (18)

Sorry Stuka, I guess I shoulda been a little more specific. I really was only looking for gripes with one engine over the other. (personal preferences) Such as, "I have had more trouble with the ---- on my Brison" or vise versa. I am just looking for a feel for the two engines good or bad. I understand the differences in them, power, options etc.., just wanted to hear from the guys who go out there every weekend with the things. Thanks!

Vince

My Feedback: (1)

Both are fine engines, within their limitations. The G62 is a rock solid performer, unless it's been abused. It is prone to bending the crank easily. Sometimes as easily as as a nose over prop strike will bend it. Likewise the Brison is also a rock solid performer, but the two cannot be compared. Both will give long years of service if taken care of. Neither is prone to any failures or problems as far as I am aware of. About the only problem you have with a gas engine is usually carb related, which can be traced to dirt.

Vince

SECRET AGENT

My Feedback: (18)

Thats exactly the sort of stuff I was looking for, does the Brison have a stouter crank shaft???

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, the Brison has a stouter crank but it is more expensive if you have to replace it. The parts prices are quite reasonable on a G-62 and very readily available through the Horizon web site.

If money is no object, and you really want sparkling performance then why not put a Brison 5.8 or ZDZ80 in it. The P-40 has a really big cowl that would accommodate one of these engines.

If you get serious about this model and if it shows a one piece wing then I can show you how to build a three piece wing for easy transportation. I did this on my Ziroli Corsair.

Ken

SECRET AGENT

My Feedback: (18)

Hey Ken,
I am absolutely serious about building the Ziroli P-40 and I love the thought of a three piece wing. Where do you fly at, maybe we could meet and talk. I will be at the jet meet this weekend at the racetrack. I am gonna bring my hot rod little A-4 and my big ugly Mig-29. Thanks for the help.

Mike

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

Mike, check your e-mail.

Ken

Vince

My Feedback: (1)

The G62 suffers from an easily bent crank because it has no front support bearing at the end of the crank near the prop. The prop extension puts the prop way out in front of the foward support bearing. Also the G62 crank is pressed together, so when it bends, it really doesn't bend (unless it gets smacked real hard) it just twists out of alignment. Most of the other purpose built gas engines have a crank support system similar to a modern glow engine with a front support bearing right behind the prop.

Vince

SECRET AGENT

My Feedback: (18)

Thanks Vince,
If you bend it, is it a mother to replace??

bentwings

If you bent your G-62 just send it to RCIGNITIONS and he will fix it right and relieve you of less than a fill up of your suburban!!!!!
Had mine done and it never ran better!!

bentwings

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

I'll ditto that. Ralph (rcign) did a good job on my crank.

SECRET AGENT

My Feedback: (18)

Hey, I thought we were talking about engines here, leave your crank out of it. HA HA

BentBalsa

My Feedback: (9)

Big_Bird

Ken

If you get serious about this model and if it shows a one piece wing then I can show you how to build a three piece wing for easy transportation. I did this on my Ziroli Corsair.

I am interested in knowing how this is one is done as I am in the process of building a wing and would like to transport it easier.



Would the choise of a Brison 69cc be equal in performance to the G-62cc. Does the 69cc have the bearing supported in the front.


Thanks
JR

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

Glad to JR, check your e-mail.

The Brison 69cc (4.2) is rated at 7.5 hp
The G62 is rated at 4.75 hp

Brison may be a little optomistic.
Not sure about the bearing.

Ken

readwinger

My Feedback: (1)

Hi all. I too am building a Ziroli size P-40, actually an AHS and I would like information on making my foam wing three piece. Also, my choice of engine is the 4.2 Brison that I have and going to mount in this airframe.

thanks,

Scott

bentwings

Old thread.

I'd split the wing just outboard of the gear ribs. double them up with AC ply. Many guys use aluminum or carbon fiber tubes. they work fine. this is tough to do on plane that have rotating gear however.

My Z-Corsair has the spars reinforced with carbon fiber then I overlaid them and ran 4-40 bolts 2 on top 2 on the bottom plus a .500 x .062 7075 aluminum strip top and bottom. It's a bit of work but the plane survived 13 years and 2 inches thick log book of flights. My son just bought it back and restored it. The wing joiners still looks good.

I initially modeled this in Solid Works and used Algor FEA software to stress analyze this. By numbers it will hold over 15 g's which I doubt the plane could ever load to.

We now are installing a GT-80 and 22-12 prop and the plane is 4 pounds lighter so it should really HA.

We also have a 118" B-25 with the same type of spar joiner. Others do a similar thing with a larger "tab" of AC ply.

Our Z-P-51 has a "blade" type spar joiner. This is .125 x 1.00 6061 aluminum about 18 inches long embeded in the outer panels about 9 inches. I made a slotted center spar receiver for this and used bolts going thru the gun ports in the wings. It works and loos cool.

Rebel Flyer

I have had several of both the G-62 and the Brison . They are great motors. Brison has easily available parts, and repair too. Brison is too light.
G-62 will work too, but remember what your target weight is. G-62 will fly it, but not with any authority. A G-38 will too though.
Do you have both engines in your possion, or are you looking to purchase one of these motors?
The reason I ask, is neither motor will fit in the cowl very well in the stock configuration.
Here is my old Ziroli P-40. Motor is very heavy and has a rear carb and a pitts style muffler. And fits in the cowl too.
Motor is a 3W 75 with a 22 inch 3 bladed prop. 36 pounds, and no lead added to balance...

Sadly she is no longer with us...

I have a Yellow p-40 kit, and I plan on uing a DA-85, because it fits completly.

Rebel

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

G-62!

dremelboy

Hi all I have a ziroli p40 with a 3w 70i It has bags of power I love the p40 great flyer
http://youtu.be/LYOJNmdVlwc

readwinger

My Feedback: (1)

Good Morning All,

Thanks everybody for the replys. I have a few more questions though. If I split the wings outboard of the retracts what happens at the flaps? I was planning on using the wing that came with the kit which is foam that I was going to sheet using either 1/16th balsa or 1/64th ply, with a glass finish. Would I be better off to build the wood wing? I had thought about making a couple of joiners similar to what Byron used to use in their kits with the foam wing, but studying the wing further I am not sure that I can bury the joiner's far enough back into the center section so that it would not interfere with the retracts.

I think the 4.2 Brison is going to fit just perfect and should give this bird plenty of umph! The first Ziroli P-40 I build back in the early 80's I tried using a Q-35 to fly it, which it would but it was way, way under powered.That one also was in the 29-30lb. range, this one should come in weighing way under that, 20-23lb.

Scott

bentwings

Flaps...

The Corsair has an outboard flap operated by a pin from the middle flap. This engages when the wings are assembled.

The P-51 has the flap in one piece that remains attached to the center section. The flap is quite long on this plane.

The B-25 has the outer flap driven by a separate servo.

The control surfaces on al 3 planes are easily removable for servicing. The Corsair is over 20 years old and still flying.

I'd suggest trying to keep the flaps in one piece on the P-40 as they are not as long as the P-51. You may have to make them removable. It should not be too difficult as "Z" stuff is pretty straight forward designs. I use Sullivan quick disconnects on the Corsair so I can easily remove the flaps if necessary.

kmtranmd

My Feedback: (71)

If you're looking to fly the Ziroli P40 with authority and flying a scale 3 blade prop, go for 3W80 or DA85.
The bird needs lots of noseweight if using smaller motor like G62, and have just ok power.
I've had 2 P40's with one having 3W80 that flew great with Mej 24x12 3 blade prop. The other P40 with marginal G62 power that I will upgrade this year to ZDZ80 that Ihave laying around.
G62 is great for TF 1/5 scale warbirds, IMO.

SIMCO

My Feedback: (33)

I flew and will be flying again with the G62. Not racing speeds by any means. Looks good speed. I wanted to comment that if you use the Vogelsang 90 deg. elbow on the carb it won't stick out! And the picture doesn't show the correct side with the carb. NUTS!

readwinger

My Feedback: (1)

My wood finally came. I am going to start building this weekend. I think though that I am going to stick with my Brison 4.2 in lieu of using the Zenoah. I will update all of you with pictures as the process goes along. I am going to clip the wings just outboard of the retracts and make it a three piece wing. Another question though. Am I better off to use 1/64th ply for the wing skins or 1/16th balsa over the foam? BTW Go Royals!