Whistling Death

Serious case of axis love...... don't forget to click your heels on the way out the door.

Evil_Merlin

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You know its people like you that cause crap like the Nazi's from happening.

You forget your history, or ignore it because some of it was created by the wrong people. Stop trying to re-write history and learn it.

Call me a facist again and I'll make sure the Mods take care of you. My grandfather's father were put to death in the death camps of Germany simply because he was a crippled Catholic.

frank99

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did i open a can worms, this info is great frank

Evil_Merlin

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For good 4 bladed props that look scale, go with a Solo prop. Yes, you pay for them, but they are worth it and look GOOD.

KentuckyColonel

And after all this...... I still like the P-51. I have to admit though, I am somewhat tired of seeing "Marie".......

Evil_Merlin

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Oh don't get me wrong, I like the P-51, but not the D models they are way over done, and usually done poorly.

I just go the plans for a A-36 I will be doing some time in the near future.

willey

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Hi Frank, not to divert from your thread, but there are some nice photos of the 51 here you might enjoy.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_62..._1/key_/tm.htm

MANFRED

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The HIGH scoring experten were far more succesful on the eastern front,

Erich Hartman 352 kills
Gerhard Barkhorn 301
GUnther Rall 272
Otto Kittel 267
Walter Nowotny 252
William Batz 232
Hermann Graff 201
Hienrich Ehler 209
And that was just the pilots above 200. The top 20 had well over 3000 kills!

Hienz Bar was the highest scoring Experten on the European western front at 124, Putting him at the bottom of the list for the top 25 Experten at the eastern front.

Don't delude yourself that the superior aircraft were on the axis side. The 109 was small, slow and very short ranged. One blast of 8-50 cals from a P-47 made quick work of them, where as a 109 had to be pretty dilligent to bring down the jug.
Interestingly enough, Galland's flying carrer was ended by a P-47 pilot while flying a 262. He was able to nurse the damaged plane back to Munchen but his injuries grounded him for the rest of the war.

Evil_Merlin

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Were you even reading my posts? I commented on Eastern front pilots before posting Western front pilots.


The Germans had until the late war when materials and fuel were not available, some of the fastest, heaviest armed and most manuverable aircraft in the air. Even by the time the Merlin powered Mustangs hit, the Fw 190 Antons could out manuver it in most circumstances.

A single .303 round could bring down a P-51, but that does not make it a bad plane. How many P-47's were brought down by Bf 109s or Fw 190's?

MANFRED

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By war's end Thunderbolts had established an over-all ratio of aerial combat victories of 4.6 to 1, and had dropped 132,482 tons of bombs, fired 59,567 rockets, and expended 135 million belts of ammunition.
In the relatively short time from D-Day to V-E Day Thunderbolts destroyed 86,000 railway cars, 9,000 locomotives, 6,000 armored vehicles and tanks, 68,000 trucks, 2,752 enemy aircraft in the air and 3,315 on the ground.
Approximately two-thirds of all Thunderbolts built actually reached operational units overseas, and in combat from Mar 1943 to Aug 1945 they flew more than a half-million combat missions, destroying more than 12,000 enemy aircraft in the air and on the ground, as against a total of 5,222 Thunderbolts lost, only 824 of them in aerial combat.
This is a quote.

frank99

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By war's end Thunderbolts had established an over-all ratio of aerial combat victories of 4.6 to 1, and had dropped 132,482 tons of bombs, fired 59,567 rockets, and expended 135 million belts of ammunition.
In the relatively short time from D-Day to V-E Day Thunderbolts destroyed 86,000 railway cars, 9,000 locomotives, 6,000 armored vehicles and tanks, 68,000 trucks, 2,752 enemy aircraft in the air and 3,315 on the ground.
Approximately two-thirds of all Thunderbolts built actually reached operational units overseas, and in combat from Mar 1943 to Aug 1945 they flew more than a half-million combat missions, destroying more than 12,000 enemy aircraft in the air and on the ground, as against a total of 5,222 Thunderbolts lost, only 824 of them in aerial combat.
This is a quote.

i felt like i was a expert on ww2 but do i have a lot to learn,9000 locomotives,i thought that their were only 9000 in the world!!. These numbers make the p-47 seem like a star wars death ray platform, but back to the p-51 to me the style of the body and the looks and tell me if i am wrong , you were a hot shot if you flew the p-51,i guess most of us have seen the 3 p-51 flying in color and they DROP THE LONG RANGE TANKS and dive over , it make hair grow on my bald head , i just cant get over the 51 forgive me frank

frank99

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MANFRED i did not copy your statement with the outlines forgive me can you tell me how to do it thanks frank

bigtim

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the kill ratio for the 56th FG was a bit higher at 8-1 having some of the best pilots like Gabreski at a loss of 128 they shot down 1009 http://www.chuckhawks.com/p47.htm
the losses for the mustang was a 5-1 ground attack vs air to air combat mainly because of its vulnerability to ground fire,history channel just had the repete the other night.
top speed for the FW190 A8 408 mph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190
top speed P-47D 426 at30,000ft
P-51C top speed at 25,000 439 it was lighter than the D with 4 guns
P-51D top speed at 25,000 437
http://www.icon.co.za/~pauljnr/specs1.htm

Evil_Merlin

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You failed to mention that the Fw 190's speed was at 15k. At 15k the P-47D's top speed was 386 MPH at full military power.

The P-51D top speed at 15k was around 380-395 (sorry can't be more accurate than that I have for 10k and 20k feet, but not 15k)

The P-51C top speed at 15k was around 390-410 (again cannot be much more accurate than that)

When doing speed comparisons, its vital they are done from the same altitude.

Unfortunately the ratio of combat victories for the Luftwaffe isn't all that easy to find.


Its also a bit hard to understand by 1944 the German Luftwaffe was frequently outnumbered in the air by 10 to 1 or 11 to 1, and in 1945 it was around 25 to 1. Not good numbers to work with.

submikester

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Did bombers factor into the kill numbers of the German pilots? If so - they had fairly easy pickings until the Mustang came around and that could have inflated their numbers but if the bombers don't count then forget I made any comments.

I believe that the Mustang is a fantastic plane that has a very unique story; If you know it - you'll understand but the design, development and building of the plane is the story to be proud of.

Evil_Merlin

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Of course the bombers figured into those numbers.

Should the German and Japanese pilots flying bombers not figure into the Allied numbers because they were fairly easy pickings due to lack of exprience and speed?

SCALECRAFT

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The 109 was innovative for its time.

I'm more impressed with the equipment advancements then kill ratios.

Superturbo charged, fuel injected, methanol/water injection, NO2 injection, leading edge slats.

Back to the topic. The P-51D is cool, and I have a few, but I fly 109s that are not just models with German markings, but very scale, even the LG position/function and spinner. I like a good challenge .

Plus if you fly it low, smooth, and fast, people will come to like the model

Steve

carlbecker

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How about cudos to the pilots that flew all these different planes. Pilots get credited with a kill be it a fighter, bomber, float plane or a Piper Cub. In the end I think the pilot matters more than the plane. I read the book Saburo wrote. He flew a Zero against a bunch of Hellcats late in the war and still survived the dance. One bullet can bring any plane down. It just has to be in the right spot. There is no doubt that the Germans where ahead of America during the war, tactics and weapons. I think America won through attrition.

brewmanbrett

Tell that to the 8th Air Force bomber crews. The plane was a straight-up lifesaver, that's why it has the reputation it does. The Mustang was in service half a year before we were on the ground in Europe. Care to calculate that in lives saved? I happen to be a Jug & Hellcat guy myself, but come on dude, give respect where respect's due!

ps If the 18 cylinder R-2800 is the best sounding piston engine of all time, what's wrong with the R-4360 28 cylinder?

zorby

interesting thread..amazing the amount of knowledge that is out there , fascinating reading. About the greatest sounding piston engined fighter..i guess its about taste, but for me it has to be the rolls royce merlin (or packard merlin) as fitted to most of the mustangs. This sound of this work of art just brings me out in goosebumps! Try www.warbirdobsession.com for a comparison of a few.
cheers Pat

Desertlakesflying

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I plan on turning a Hangar 9 150 Mustang into Strega, completely scale.

frank99

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history lesson was great now off to the modles , learned about a new plane, strega very nice indeed frank

CorsairJock

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Strega? I thought this was a warbird forum.

zorby

and yes...i love the mustang !! TF 1/7 scale D model..JR radio, enya .60..robarts..flaps...a couple of years old now...great flying plane.

Vintauri

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Well I flew my newly aquired Pica 1/5 mustang today. First flight went great. I was a little nervous having never flown a warbird quite this big before but I was confident in my ability. After a couple quick taxi tests and rudder adjustments I was off. It flew great and the landing was decent. One minor bounce but no nose overs or collapsing gear. I was able to taxi back and have a big smile on my face.

Next flight started out well. However a couple minutes into the flight I saw a black object drop. My flying buddies said right away I had lost a wheel. I dropped the gear and sure enough I was missing a wheel. So now the nerves really go crazy but I stayed calm, tucked the gear up and made a long approach trying to kill the engine. It just idles too well so I brought it down real low and bled off speed. At about a foot off the deck I flared and she settled in nice a straight. The prop stopped and luckily didn't break.

I didn't break anything major but I'll have to take a good look at her. I know the lead weight up front came loose. So the cowl will come off and a good inspection will be done.

I didn't bring my camera otherwise I'd share a pic. I'll get some this coming weekend though.

Steve