butlern

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Hi, Chic.

I understand your typing efficiency has gone down considerably. Don't worry about writing out lengthy replies for the time being.

The inserts (detailed in one of your earlier posts) look like a slick way to go, so I'm following your lead on the cowl mounting. I just wanted to be sure my eyes were not playing tricks on me.

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. I'm doing my best with the limited time available to spend on the project.

I will post again on Sunday. Although, there's an air show 60 miles from me this weekend, so I still have not decided whether my free time will be spent working on my Avenger, or walking around a real Avenger. We'll see. The show is also supposed to have a visit from the only currently flying Helldiver. I hope it comes! Love to see that in person. Weather looks spotty, though. So maybe it won't show up. Maybe I won't show up.

If I get some intersting pictures, I'll share them here.

Regards,

Noah

redtail

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Noah, I'll keep it short, "GO TO THE AIRSHOW" You never know when they may stop flying those birds.

butlern

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Yeah, you're right, Chic.

I'll go to the show!

butlern

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OK, made a little more progress. Found a shot of the finished cowl ring, so I thought I throw a picture in.

It's been a while since I worked on the plane. As always, I found little time to work on the Avenger the past two weeks.

Anyway, the focus (still) is on installing the bomb bay doors. One additional reason for the delay was that I had to place two separate orders for the hardware for the bomb bay door hinges... I thought the first screws I ordered were going to work, but they just made a mess of the situation. I finally decided to try the screw pictured below, and they work perfectly.

butlern

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Once I had the fastener situation sorted out, I started the installation by ripping the fiberglass layup for the bomb bay doors into 4 equal strips. After they were cut, 1/4 square spruce was added along the hinge lines. One exception, though: By design (meaning the way the hinges are postioned) the spruce stringer that supports the hinge at the fuse needed to be a 1/4 triangle spruce stock. I could not find this material locally so I made a jig to hold the 1/4 square spruce in such a way that I could use a razor plane to turn the square stock into triangle stock. The jig was just two lengths of 1/4 basla triangle stock glued to my work surface. I thought I had a picture but I can't find it now.

Once the spruce was in place, the hinges themselves were attached along the lengths of the bay doors, ending up with the two halves ready for fitting to the fuse.

butlern

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The last two hinges were then added to the triangle stringers, and then the right bay door assembly was attatched to the fuse.

At this point, the fit is not perfect, and I still need to tweak the hinge alignment a little bit, but it's certainly workable. Perhaps most importantly, the hinges operate smoothly and the door opens fully.

The next step (after fitting the left door assembly) will be to connect the actuating mechanism to the doors, and then install the cylinders and get it all working under air power.

Now that I have some experience under my belt on the right doors, the remaining work should go pretty quickly.

That's it for now.

Noah

butlern

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The left door went in perfectly. Just need to drill and set the remaining mounting screws.

The right side still needs some work. Turns out the glass layup varies in thickness along the hinge line where it mounts to the fuse. It needs to be sanded a bit in order to get the contours to match. Hard to explain, but in the previous photos, you can see that it looks like it's bowed out a bit away from the contour of the fuse. The hinge is straight, and so is the spruce spar that is set in the fuse, so it's clearly the glass. Will remove the door and work on that tonight or tomorrow.

Here's a couple more photos detailing how the hinges are arranged.

Once I get the right door fixed up, I'll start setting the linkages and install the air cylinder. My fingers and wrist need a rest, though. That's a lot of screws that I drove into the spruce!

Chic, send me a note, brother. Have not heard from you in a while.

Hope all is well.

Be in touch again soon.

Noah

butlern

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Made a little more progress today.

So fixed up the right bay door. As I mentioned earlier, the hinge was installed perfectly, and so was the wood spar, but the inside surface of the glass itself had some waviness and uneveness. All the uneveness made it look like a terrible fit along the fuse. Anyway, the fix was easy. I just had to do some sanding (on the outside surface of the glass) to get the area along the fuse hinge-line to look correct.

That didn't take too long, so then it was onto adjusting the fit at the center seam. Even though the fiberglass lay-up fit perfectly in the opening as a single piece, once I cut it into 4 strips, and added the hinges, the overall dimension changed a bit. As a consequence, the left and the right doors overlapped a bit at the center seam. Thankfully the lay-up has a constant radius, so removing material did not affect how well the contour of the glass parts matched the contour of the fuse. Adjusting this required scribing some lines and cutting the glass. I removed material from both door sections, and then did the final adjustments to the fit with a sanding bar and 80 grit paper. To cut the glass lay-up, I have just been using a razor saw to cut these parts. This saw is also the same I used to rip the single piece lay-up into 4 individual pieces. A little labor intensive, but much easier to avoid disasterous mistakes if the lay-up is cut by hand.

butlern

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Next came the brackets to connect the arms to the glass doors, and the brass arms that connect the torque tubes to the air cylinders.

For the brackets, I just used some more brass, punched and drilled to accommodate a 4-40 bolt and bent to 90 degrees. These were positioned on the glass doors, clamped in place then then glued with methacrylate.

Once the doors were attached to the torque tubes, it was onto installing the last two brass arms and the air cylinders. I soldered the air cylinder arms at the appropriate angle (relative to the arms that connect the tube to the doors, a measurement that was taken directly from the plans). and then attached the air cylinders. The assembly was placed back into the fuse, the doors were pushed fully closed by hand, and the air cylinder was full compressed. Once all was closed and the piston was full seated in the cylinder, I was able to determine where (on F-3) the cylinders should be mounted. The critical parameter is that when the cylinder is fully compressed, the doors should also be fully closed. Luckily, because I opended up the front of F-1, I could get my hands in there and mount the cylinders without much trouble.

I just realized that I didn't snap any pictures of the air cylinder installation, so I'll have to load those later.

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Once the cylinders were mounted to the back of F-3, I finished plumbing the air lines, put some air to the system and put doors into action.

Worked VERY well! Charlie Kellogg did an amazing job thinking this feature through, making it easy to do, and easily understood so that any average builder (like me!) can tackle such a terrific scale detail.

If you're still out there watching this thread, Charlie... you're the man!

butlern

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Loaded a video of my bay doors in action here on RCU:

http://rcuvideos.com/video/Avengerbaydoors-MOV

I can only capture 15 seconds with my digital camera, and that was not enough time to see the doors close fully and reseat themselves. But, they work! and they work well!

I'll get some more pictures of the air cylinder install soon.

Regards,

Noah

butlern

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OK, got some pictures of the air cylinder installation.

These shots make it clear how this system works. The cylinders twist the torque tube and that kicks the bay doors out to the sides. Because the door panels are hinged as such, the two doors open like clamshells (or close like clamshells, either way).

The cylinders are mounted to hardwood blocks which are themselves mounted to the back of F-3. The control valve that operates the bay doors is housed in the bottom of the wing center section. That installation was detailed in an earlier post.

Now that everything is set, the doors and hinges will be removed at the fuse for fiberglassing. Don't want to gum-up those long piano hinges with finishing resin while I apply the glass cloth. When I install the bay doors again, I'll use nylon washers between the arms and brackets and cylinders. Probably add a little lithium grease, too, to the torque tube bushings.

Before I start fiberglassing, however, I still need to set the horizontal and vertical stabs, and then do LOTS of filling, sanding and shaping. A little extra work up front goes a long way towards an excellent fiberglassing job. Oh, yeah... I ave to work on the cowl mounting, too.

If I get the stabs mounted today, I'll update again later tonight.

Regards,

Noah

Check6

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Noah,
I'm impressed!!. Excellent installation and great engineering on a difficult subject. Keep up the great work.
Thanks,
Fred Menna Check6

butlern

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Hey, Fred.

Thanks for the kind words, but I cannot take any credit... I'm working from an excellent set of plans!!

Hopefully I can get some primer on my Avenger before the end of the year. The plane has not been difficult to build, it's just taking me forever because I never get enough time to work on it each week.

A better builder (with more time than me) could have this thing together in a few months, I'm sure!

Best regards,

Noah

butlern

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Hello again, Avenger fans.

Well I spent most of the day at our field helping a friend get his Top Flite P-51 ready for next weekend. Next Sunday our club is putting on our annual air show for the community. It's a great time, and a pretty good show. We do 3 hrs of choreographed demonstrations (all set to music) that aim to highlight all aspects of model aviation, and this year we'll also be flying a turbine-powered jet, so that will be particularly cool for the public to witness.

Anyway, even with all that business at the field today, I did manage to get the tail feathers mounted this morning.

I had previously sanded the horizontal stab saddle so the the stab incidence would match the wing. But before I glued on the stab, I had to fill in the space between the F-20 parts with balsa. Once dry, this balsa was sanded to match the contours delineated by F-20.

Once that was done, I placed the assembly back on the fuse and checked the fit and the incidence again. Checking the incidence this way required that I level the crutch to the building surface, hence all the styrofoam and wood blocking under the rear of the fuse. Some aileron stock was also tacked the to the trailing edge of the stab so that the incidence meter would be easier to use (the stab is very thick).

This fit-check also included the vertical stab, because the rudder post passes through the horitontal stab, just in front the trailing edge balsa on the horizontal stab. The rudder post eventually gets glued to the backside of F-17, so I had to make sure it all was going together perfectly, as a unit. I know these part numbers mean nothing to most of you, but I feel like I should include this info for those who may be building this plane.

Anyway, the fit and incidence was verified, the vertical stab was removed and the horizontal stab was glued to the saddle with methacrylate. The metal ruler was placed there to balance the weight of the incidence meter.

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Once the horizontal was dry, I slipped the vertical stab back into place and glued it all together with more methacrylate.

Turned out perfect, measurements from wing tips to stab tips are spot on left and right. The picture below was taken (from behind the plane) as I stood off-set from the thrust line of the model, so it looks like the vertical is way off. But, it's perfect. Trust me.

With the bay doors done, and the tail set, it's now onto the cockpit and sliding canopy. I have the square brass tubing and the various bits of styrene for the sliding canopy section, so I can start on that as soon as time permits.

After that, it'll be onto filling the low spots on the basla, making lots of dust, and then the fiberglass work begins.

Ever closer.

Regards,

Noah

lkahn4

Hey Noah,
Excellent work... having problems getting this page to upload will try again tomorrow

butlern

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lkahn4, thanks for the compliment.

Are you working on a Kellogg Avenger, too?

lkahn4

My friend and I have been working part time on one for 18 months, our bss let's us use the tool room to build planes . We try to get 3 - 4 hours a week after work to create saw dust and lots of scrap balsa. Each of us probably gets another 3 -4 hours per week during lunch to do what we can. You should feel extremely proud of what you have accomplised judging by the pix.
If you let me have your email address I'll send you some pix along with some of the engineering we did to get the Sierra tail wheel to work with the rudder using only ONE servo My pix are too large to upload here for some reason.
Hope we get to chat about our TBF's

Larry

lkahn4

Hey Red,
Anything I can help? you with as my friends and I are also neophytes when it comes to scale modeling. Did Charlie cut the kit for you or did you have one of the kit cutting companies do the kit? If you send me your email I will send you some pix of what we have done so far, 18 months avg of 3 -4 hours per week. My next personal project will be Dave Platts T-28 Trojan.. 3 hours of building time a week isn't enough for me, I need LOTS of aggravation
Let me know if I can help you with anything, Squadron Publications Walk around series has an excellent book on the Avenger in case you haven't gotten it yet.

CHat soon I hope
Larry

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Back at it again yesterday, although I only had a few hours to spend on the plane.

Before I start the glassing, I needed to fit the canopy sections so that I could trim the balsa around the cockpit. Once the canopies were in place (mostly a judgment call), I just marked the balsa and then used a knife and sanding bar to smooth it all out. I also added a bit of balsa aft of the ball turret so the fuse sides wrapped the turret more snugly.

After that it was onto hatches for the air fill chucks and the two switches for my planned use of dual batteries and receivers. The engine ignition switch will be located just aft of the cowl, portside, where an access panel would normally allow access to the engine oil tank. Details to follow on that hatch. For the switches and air fillers, these were located both left and right where the life raft and rescue gear would be otherwise located. Templates for the hatches were made from Charlie's drawings and then just located on the fuse where I thought they best fit (and with the help of some measurements also taken from the plans). Once the fuse was opened, the switches and air fill chucks were mounted to some ply (Hey, I found a use for the gear covers, Chic!!). The switch plates were mounted to the inside of the fuse with some more ply that was shaped to match the fuse contour. The hatch covers themselves will be hinged and the fit will be made better once I start using some filler when the fiberglassing begins.

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

While I had the "fuse cutting tools" out I also went to work on the bombardier's compartment door and the adjacent windows. The door is starboard and the windows are located on both sides.

Again, using templates and measurements taken from Charlie's plans (and with the help of an Accurate Miniatures model and one of Lou Drendel's books) I marked the position of the doors and windows. When I was satisfied, I had at it with the knives and razor saw. The door came out as a single, solid piece. The door will be filled, sanded, glassed and hinged. The window voids will be filled with scrap plastic that I have from trimming the kit-supplied canopy sections.

I think that the locations turned out fine, and now I have access to lots of stuff within the fuse! I might re-position the bomb bay air tank (the smaller) to the other side so it is away from the door. I didn't think that through when I mounted it the first time. It's just held in place with silicone, so it should pop loose with some coaxing.

That's about all I got accomplished yesterday, but I anticipate the filling and sanding will get finished in the evenings this week, so I can start the glassing towards the end of the week/weekend.

Until then,

Noah

P-40BRB

Hello! guys, I'm sorry I didn't get in sooner on this build thread but I just don't do much on the computer, I spend most of my free time in the airplane shop. I was talking to Charlie Kellogg at Warbirds over Delaware 2009 and he ask if I would check this out. I must say that you are quiet the builder yourself. Your Avenger looks great, and I can assure you that it will fly even better!! These thing are sweet, I can find no bad habbits in this plane at all other than people drooling on them were ever you show up with one. I posted a couple of photo's on my members page of the finished plane. One flying and one with Charlies second build. It took a little over 16 months to complete this plane working on it as much I my wife would allow. Here are some photos at the stage of the last post that I see, but I don't internet very well and you may also be flying by now. It weighed in at 49lbs a bit more than the plans call for but I made several modes to the plane that acount for this being heavier than Charlies. Longer wing tubes a Fire wall instead of the balsa ring for the cowl as I cut my on kit I just extended the stringers and all other componets to make a forward firewall to mount the brison 5.8 to. It stills slow down to walking speed for landings even at this higher weight.

butlern

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Hi, Brian. Thanks for checking in on the thread. Charlie also mentioned to me via email that you guys were both out there at WOD with your Avengers. I've watched the older video that Ty posted of one of your flights about 50 times already. Your Avenger is inspiring!

If mine turns out 1/10th as nice as yours, I'll be thrilled! I've still got a LONG way to go, but I can finally start to see some light at the end of the tunnel. I started work on the kit in October of last year. So, overall I would say that I'm moving at a pretty good pace, even though I take generally take a week or two off here and there (in feb-mar. I took about 6 weeks off). So, I'm pleased with the progress overall.

I'm glad to hear that Charlie's design flys so well at ~50 lbs. I am waiting to break out the scale until I get my Avenger glassed and in primer. I'm pretty sure that I'll be right there at the same weight (or maybe more!). We'll see. Like you, I also modified the firewall area to accommodate a larger motor (additional ply and weight).

I understand that you may not be back to visit regularly, but I still want to thank you for checking in and providing some perspective and some encouraging words.

Best regards,

Noah

redtail

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Noah, I am so impressed with your building and engineering skills. You have really made this build thread worth reading. I am so very glad that you continued on. I am not sure I could have done such a wonderful job and the explanations you provide are so meaningful to those of us who are using Charlie's plans to build from. I am not fully back to myself yet but I can say that the doctors have removed the sling/harness apparatus from my right arm and I am beginning my post surgery physical therapy. I am just able to lift my right arm alittle so there is progress to say the least. I have not been receiving the email updates to the build thread from RCU as before, not sure why but I see where you have made great leaps. Your Avenger is really taking shape. You have used alot of smart ideas that all of us will surely use thanks to you. I really appreciate your checking up on me, seems that Charlie has forgot about me but that is OK. I still plan to compete with this airframe when I do complete it. Just saw on the Military Channel where they did a piece on the Avenger. Noah, my friend, keep setting the way for me and others to follow. Shirley is doing just fine, thanks for asking. Just beautiful work my brother, keep it up. Chic