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ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF P-47 ASSEMBLY

Old 10-03-2008, 04:34 PM
  #1  
samparfitt
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Default ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF P-47 ASSEMBLY

I took the 'plunge' and bought the Robart's 92" P-47 which uses Ziroli's plans.
I sold four of my planes so I could purchase this.
I bought the white jell coat so I could add some extra details and paint it myself.
I plan on putting the functional cowl flaps on as JP Ash did to his Meister P-47.
I'm also planning on adding the functional inner cooler doors that JP Ash also added to the sides of the fuse.
I plan on putting aluminum tape on the plane.
I'm not sure when I'll start this project.

Pic 1:
The ARF and combo #2 were shipped yesterday as two boxes.
The combo #2 box arrived today and the ARF will arrive on Monday (according to UPS tracking!).
An EMS door sequencer is included to operate the main, inner gear doors and tail wheel doors.
I've got some air cylinders that will be used on the main, inner gear doors.

The combo #2 includes:
1 - P-47 ARF Airplane (arriving Monday)
1 - ZP47VRX Air Kit
2 - VR Control Valve
1 - Fill Valve & Fill Chuck
2 - Lg. Ait Tanks
9 - Brass T's
1 - Presure Gauge
8 - Quick Disconnects
10 - Retainer Nuts
10' ea. - Red & Purple Tubing
6' ea. - Orange & Black Tubing
1 - EMS Gear Door Squencer
1 - ZP47 Main Gear Retracts
1 - 160LWC LH Offset Retractable Tailwheel
2 - 13855A1N 5 1/2" Aluminum Tuff Treads 8 Spoke

pic 2:
I painted the retracts silver so they'll be ready when the ARF arrives.
The rims are real nice polished aluminum and are held together with six screws.
The tires are also nice with 'Goodyear' on the side of the tires.
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Old 10-03-2008, 07:48 PM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

retracts (cont)

pic 1:
According to Robart's data sheet on their web site, these retracts are suppose to take 5" wheels.
The supplied wheels are 5.5" but with the shallow offset on the oleo, the edge of the wheel barely touches the corner of the oleo.
I ground off 1/16" off the corner of the oleo to prevent the edge of the tire from touching.
This was a very small amount and I doubt if any strutural integrity was compromised.

pic 2:
The side of the tire was also very close to the side of the oleo so I added a thin washer since the tire may compress on landings and possibly rub against the oleo which could cause ground loops or nosing over.
The usual notch was put in the axle for the set screw plus I used a grinding wheel in a dremel to cut off the excess waste.
I tried a hack saw but the axle metal is too strong for it.
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Old 10-04-2008, 07:19 AM
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mobyal
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

You know what version you're gonna do, Sam?
Old 10-06-2008, 12:13 PM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Mobyal,
not yet but if you have any good documentation, I'd appreciate all pictures with good side close ups of nose art so I can copy it.

-
I stopped at the gas station and there was a UPS truck there so I stopped next to it and asked if he had a package for me.
Sure enough so we loaded it into my truck/

pic 1:
the box is huge at 18X21X75.

pic 2:
content label.

pic 3:
first look.

pic 4:
all parts are bubble wrapped.

pic 5:
moving surfaces.

pic 6:
all hinges are pre-installed.

pic 7:
flaps are an impressive 5 1/2" wide!

pic 8/9:
horizontal stab/elevators.

pic 10:
vertical fin and rudder plus guns that screw in plus an antenna that also screws in plus hardware.


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Old 10-06-2008, 12:18 PM
  #5  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

pic 1:
miscellaneous parts.

pic 2:
that's an 18" ruler under the cowl!

pic 3:
fire wall and cockpit support (I think!).

pic 4:
gear doors, hatches.

pic 5:
gas tanks and mounts.

pic 6:
dummy prop.

pic 7:
fuse

pic 8/9:
hatch with pre-installed pins/latch.

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Old 10-06-2008, 12:21 PM
  #6  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

pic 1-6:
interior.

pic 7:
cockpit

pic 8:
canopy

pic 9-11:
details.
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:27 PM
  #7  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

pic 1:
wings

pic 2/3:
hinges

pic 4/5:
besides the aircraft ply, there's also a phenolic plastic for the retract mounts.

pic 6-9:
Basic layout.
wings as well as the vertical and horizonatal stabs are removable.

pic 10:
lots of bubble wrap that I'll reuse (I used to be called cheap when I saved stuff: now I'm called 'environmentally friendly'!)

pic 11:
16 page manual to be printed from dvd.

I think we have a 'winner here folks!'
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:29 PM
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DLEVETT
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

That looks awesome, you must be prety pumped about getting it.
I,ll be watching as you make your progress.

Dave
Old 10-06-2008, 02:42 PM
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andywakem
 
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Hey sam what did you unload for this beauty! What a nice kit. I know they are a little pricey but there is something to be said for the quality of this bird.

Andy
Old 10-06-2008, 04:27 PM
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mobyal
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Well, there asre the two down in Sevierville, TN. They go to a lot of airshows. I saw them up at The Gathering in Columbus OH last Sept.
I have details of gear, flaps etc if you're interested.
I know you'll do a great job on this, Sam, and I'm looking forward to following it along.
Al
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:55 PM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Andy,
I sold three glow planes (all twins) and one Byron P-47.
When you consider how much it cost to build one from scratch, Robart's price isn't bad, especially with all the detail lines and rivet detail.

Al,
I hadn't thought of the 'hun hunter'; that may be a good choice.
Any high pixel pictures can be sent to my email: [email protected]

-
Flap and aileron servos.

The kit comes with metal 'L' brackets that are threaded plus they give you the screws/washers to attach the servos.
I put locktite on the threads.
There are extra screws that appear to be for holding the brackets to the wood mounts but I choose to use the hex head wood screws for that.
The wood ply mounts appear to be about a 1/4" thick so no worry on any servo deflection!
I'm using all Hitec HS645 servos (133 oz at 6 volts).
All linkages for the flaps and ailerons will be internal.

pic 1:
I labeled each cover to insure they don't get mixed up.

pic 2:
Here's the metal brackets attached to the servo.

pic 3:
The flap servo installed.
The wood mount is farther from the servo cover so I put the servo arm facing up (towards the bottom of the wing).
I had to trim about a square 1/8" of wood mount away so the servo wires had enough room to allow mounting of the servo to the wood mount.
The flaps require a servo reverser 'Y' connection.

pic 4:
The aileron servo installed.
The wood mount for the aileron is closer to the servo cover so I put the servo arm facing down (towards the top of the wing).
I'm assuming I've got the servo arms pointed in the correct position (up or down) but time will tell.
The instruction manual is not detailed so the builder is expected to have enough experience to make the correct decisions (time will also tell on this!).

pic 5:
I like to test each servo as they are installed so I've got them connected to the receiver.

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Old 10-06-2008, 09:15 PM
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DLEVETT
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Whats great about your build threads Sam is you get right down to business on building them.
I enjoyed your YA SNJ build so much, I,ve got a YA P-47 on its way.

Dave
Old 10-06-2008, 09:59 PM
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Joe Westrich
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Here is a couple pics of the 47 they have at the Dayton AFM.

Also, doesn't is look like the wing spar is really far back from the leading edge. It appears they had a conflict with the typical location of the spar and the wheel wells and just moved the spar behind it.
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:38 AM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Flap/ailerons (cont)
I failed to previously mention on the servos that the brass standoffs are not used when mounting to the metal 'L' brackets since the screw diameter is too large to fit through them. They are not needed as the washers provide the needed surface contact to hold the servos 'in place'.

pic 1:
I needed an 18" servo extensions for the aileron servos to reach the inside rib of each outer wing.
I used a long piano wire with a hook bent on one end to pull the extension wire through the wing.
There are holes on each side of the flap mount to route the aileron servo wire so the two don't bother each other.

pic 2:
I got this idea from Dave Chew on just using paint to letter each wire end.

pic 3:
There is a piece of balsa inside the LE of the flap.
On mine the balsa is 1" wide and starts 6 3/4" measured from the inside edge of the flap to 7 3/4" from the edge.
(I drilled tiny holes and a small wire for probing to locate the balsa)

pic 4:
I'll be using control horns from Tamjets.
(just ordered them, yesterday)

pic 5:
I will be using two for each flap and they will be epoxied into slots cut into the balsa inside the flap and then a ball link will be connected.
Since Dennis Crooks has already built this plane, I've been 'picking' his brain on how/where to do installs.

pic 6:
I'm using dubro's 4-40 heavy duty ball links for all connections.

pic 7:
An initial hole was cut into the TE of the wing for the flap linkage.
This will make the flap linkage completely hidden.
I'm sure this hole will need to be enlarge after I get the flap control horn installed.

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Old 10-07-2008, 02:53 PM
  #15  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Nav lights.

pic 1:
22 gauge flexible wire from radio shack.
I put the ends of two of the wires in a vise and the other two ends in my old manual drill and twisted them together.

pic 2:
I drilled a 1/8" diameter hole pointing to the aileron servo compartment.
I used a 12" long bit from HD but I'm not sure if I drilled through any ribs after the first few inches.
Anyway, I pushed a long push rod through, soldered the ends of the wires to the push rod and pulled the wires to the corner wing nav light compartment.
I unsoldered that end and put a knot in the wires so they won't get pulled back into the wing and then pulled the other end of the nav light wires the same way as with the aileron extension wires.

-
Ailerons (cont)

pic 3:
For the aileron control horn, I used a robart #332 control horn and cut the base off and drilled some holes in one end so the glue has something to hold onto.

pic 4:
I used the tools in the picture to cut a slot in the LE of the aileron and the internal balsa block.
The aileron balsa block also appears to be about 1" wide and is 7 1/4" - 8 1/4" from the inside edge on my aileron.
I cut the slot for the control horn at 8" from the inside edge of the aileron so it will align with my servo control horn.

pic 5:
The internal balsa block is square so there is an open space on the inside angled area of the LE of the aileron.

pic 6-9:
The control horn is to face (curve) up on the aileron.
The aileron hinges on the bottom of the aileron is back from the LE by a fair amount so I tried to get the end of the control horn to be as far back on the top of the aileron as possible to get some up movement (that is also why I put the control horn with the curve going up).
With a dry fit of the control horn in the aileron, I put the hinges together to see what kind of movement I was going to get.
There is not going to be a whole lot of up movement but there will be a lot of down movement due to the relation of the hinge point to control horn point to servo arm point locations to each other.
I don't think there's much I can do about that without having a big hole in the top of the aileron that would be very visable.
The end point of the control horn could be put inside the aileron but then the screw holding the ball to the clevis would not be accessible.
Having more down than up aileron should be more efficient on turns, anyway! (rationalization).
I put a 'ton' of newly opened tube of zap-a-dap into the slot to fill in not only the balsa slot but also the open area just behing the LE of the aileron.
After a couple of hours, I'll hook up the servo and check for adequate movement: the zap-a-zap cures slower than epoxy so I can still remove it if I've hosed it up.


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Old 10-07-2008, 07:49 PM
  #16  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

ailerons/flaps (cont)

pic 1:
The zap-a-dap glue is slow to dry being contained in a small/little air environment so I'm assuming the location is good and zap-a-dap'ed the other aileron control horn in so they will be ready to work on in the morning.

pic 2:
I got impatient to wait for the tamjets control horns to arrive in the mail so I used two robart 3/4" control horns for each flap with the bases cut off and holes drilled in the sides for the glue to adhere.
It's good to have both control horn set up on both flaps identical for equal deflection by the servos so I aligned both LE's of flaps to face each other so I can insure both sets of control horns are identical to each other.

pic 3:
About a 1" square hole needs to be cut in the TE of the wing to accomodate the double control horns in the flaps.
That's about it for tonight.
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Old 10-08-2008, 08:49 AM
  #17  
andywakem
 
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Sam,

Looking at the aileron control set-up, why not epoxy a hinged ball mount stright into the leading edge? with no curve I would thing you would get more up throw. Just a thought.

Andy
Old 10-08-2008, 09:13 AM
  #18  
f4u1 pilot
 
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Thanks for all the great detailed assembly Sam! I have "No Guts No Glory". Your Build will help greatly,Keep it coming.
Old 10-08-2008, 03:57 PM
  #19  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Andy,
pic 12 (last pic) shows the pivot (hinge) on the aileron: the servo arm moving forward has very little arc between the pivot and control horn point in relation to the servo arm point.

-
Ailerons/flaps (cont)
I outsmarted myself using the zap-a-dap as little air gets inside the parts so it's going to take awhile for it to dry.
I'm moving on to other parts.
-
Main gear.

pic 1:
I drilled/tapped for 6X32 hex head machine screws.
Since the mount is about 3/8" thick, I using the wood to hold the screws in versus wood screws or blind nuts.
I see no problem using wood screws.
If you use blind nuts, there is one spot where it won't fit as there's a rib there.

pic 2:
I did the two diagonals first and secured the retract to the mount and then drilled/tapped the other four screws.

pic 3:
completed.

pic 4:
full size P-47 gear well.

pic 5:
before

pic 6:
after.
I cut balsa into 1/4" wide strips and CA'ed them in place.
I duplicated the number of ribs that the full size had.
Not sure why I did this since no one is really going to see it!
I guess it gives some strength to the top sheeting!

pic 7:
painted.

pic 8:
a sheet of yellow paper next to the well to show the green tinted yellow that Republic used.
I mixed my AT-6 yellow with some cockpit green to get the color that I wanted.

pic 9:
The interior of the gear doors also painted.

pic 10/11:
Also painted the cockpit and parts that came with the kit.

pic 12:
pivot points.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:47 PM
  #20  
pappy35
 
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

This is a best and most timely build-thread I've seen yet!!!

I'm building a TF GS P-47 and am at the point of modifying the tail for the scale hinge-line, tip curve, and hinge covers. I'd love to see how that's done on this kit as well as how the rudder and elevator control horns are implemented.

Thanks to you, I've ordered the Tamjet hinge points. Thanks so much for posting these great pics!
Old 10-08-2008, 07:09 PM
  #21  
t_burley
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Sam

I always enjoy your threads. very informative.

todd
Old 10-08-2008, 08:08 PM
  #22  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

thanks for the comments.

-
Tail feathers

pic 1:
The vertical fin has two metal rods pre-installed that just slide into two mounts already installed inside the fuse.

pic 2:
There are two holes on the side to insert an allen wrench to tighten two hex bolts.

pic 3:
Here's the two internal vertical fin mounts.
This allows the fin and rudder to be removable.

pic 4:
Two 1" robart control horns have their bases cut off just as we did with the ailerons/flaps with holes drilled into one end for the glue.

pic 5/6:
After cutting slots into the bottom end of the rudder and internal balsa block, the two control horns were zap-a-dap'ed into place.

pic 7/8:
Two hitec HS-645 servos installed into the ends of the horizontal stab.
that's it for tonight.



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Old 10-09-2008, 10:22 AM
  #23  
samparfitt
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

tail feathers (cont)

pic 1:
I used a dremel sanding drum to lightly bevel the inside edges to prevent that edge from scraping the paint off the elevator.

pic 2:
I'm using robart's pocket hinges so the elevators will be removable.
The pocket hinges need to have the mount that holds the set screw to be flush to the TE of the horizontal stab plus the excess plastic from the set screw mount to the opening is cut off to give more room for the LE of the elevator.
Since a carbon fiber rod runs close to the TE of the horizontal stab, about a 1/4" has to be cut off the closed end of the pocket hinge closests to the fuse.

pic 3:
The center of the hinge needs to be at the center of the radius of the LE of the elevator to keep the elevator from scraping the elevator gap covers (overhangs).
The kit comes with pre-installed (dry fitted) large robart pin hinges but some extra trimming is needed to get the center of the hinges at the proper location.

pic 4/5:
You need to drill small holes in the bottom of the elevator gap covers so an allen wrench can be used to tighten the pocket hinge set screw.

Another option for hinges was to fill the two 'full size' hinges in the TE of the stab with epoxy and then use a long drill bit and drill a hole at the center radius of the elevator and then put some brass tubing in the horizontal stab side and piano wire through the elevator side.

pic 6/7:
Here's the alignment of the elevator servo to the control horn.
The usual robart 3/4" control horn had its base cut off with holes drilled in it connected to 4/40 threaded rod and dubro ball link on a very short servo arm.
The servos in the horizontal stab gives good slop free connections to the elevator but a small penalty will be paid in tail weight (with a 30 lb plane, this is insignificant).
You could change this setup by mounting the servos in the front of the fuse and run carbon fiber rods back to the elevator.
With the servos in the horizontal stab, the stab needs to remain removable (as the kit is set up for with the set screws) in order to have future access to the elevator servos.
There is another balsa block inside the LE of the elevator and my control horn is 7/8" (between the 2nd & 3rd rivet) from the edge.
My first cut for the control horn was too close to the edge of the balsa block so I moved it in a 1/4" to the 7/8" location.

pic 8:
A servo reverser will be needed.
A very short servo arm.
This set up of the linkage has a low profile and a minimum visual impact.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:28 AM
  #24  
Meesh
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Great job Sam! Keep it coming!

I've been drooling over this plane since I saw it at the WRAM show in February.

Great work!

Bob
Old 10-09-2008, 01:35 PM
  #25  
pappy35
 
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Default RE: ROBARTS ZIROLI 92" ARF ASSEMBLY

Very interesting! I actually set up the hinges in the scale locations plus one hidden near the control horn for three-point attachment though your setup is temptimg me to be more conventional. My tail-servo installation is going to be identical except I'm using Hitec 5245 metal gear mini digitals (~70oz-in torque) plus I'm using the same control horns. Since this is my first EVER scale project, you're inflating my ego by using many of the same techniques I made up (or so I thought) on my own. [sm=49_49.gif]

Interesting tail surfaces. Are they built-up wood finished with panel lines and rivets or are the skins molded? and attached to the underlying structure?

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