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G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Old 11-23-2008, 03:48 PM
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G-Pete
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Default G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Just waiting on the spruce and then the build can begin.
Ziroli Plan
Ziroli short kit
Ziroli P-38 Package (fiberglass booms, gear doors, cowls, LG doors, turbo chargers, wing fairings, nose cap and canopy)

Balsa from National Balsa [link=http://www.nationalbalsa.com/] click here[/link]

Spruce from Aircraft Spruce [link=http://www.aircraftspruce.com/]click here[/link]

Cockpit kit from DB [link=http://www.wyliewarbirds.com/products/cockpitkits/cockpitkits.htm]click here[/link]


National Balsa is a MOM and POP shop, super balsa and you WILL be surprised of the packaging and quality!

I hope I can start by next weekend...

More to order
DA 85 engines - for the 25 inch scale three blade propellers
Sierra landing gear, wheels
Servos, Tanks, receivers...




Happy landings
G-Pete



here the first pictures
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:14 PM
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GaryM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

OK Pete,

You did a P 47 in a captured German paint scheme, you convinced Terry to flop to the other side of the fence and do his P 51 as a German captured P 51. Please tell me the Germans did not capture a P38. If they did then that has to be proof they didnt design anything of their own worth flying because all they ever did was want to fly American made planes. LOL LOL

Please let this P38 have some dignity and fly as an American.

GaryM
Old 11-23-2008, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Gary you should know better then that by now! You know what ever it’s going to be it will be rocket fast and different in some way.
Old 11-23-2008, 06:43 PM
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G-Pete
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Gary, I'm not sure yet for the final paint. What I know is, it will be not another Putt Putt Maru, Glacier Girl, California Cutie, Marge, Ruff Stuff, 23 Skidoo, Pudgy 5, Tangerine or Scatterbrain Kid.
It will be something different, I consider even an M- version like the Shady Lady-Snooks.

Happy landings

G-Pete



...one thing is for sure - she will be fast!
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:03 AM
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Edwin
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

G-Pete,
How long befoe we see that P-38 at our warbird event? <g>
Edwin
Old 11-24-2008, 01:22 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

I expect this thread to be awesome..........make sure to post all your little secrets to making things look more scale. They help the new guys like me get to your level.

Subscribed
Old 11-24-2008, 06:53 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

i was very disappointed in my balsa from there. heavy heavy blocks, warped wing sheeting etc all of which i could return for exchange at my cost. no thank you. many others have voiced the same opinions on this site.

david
Old 11-24-2008, 09:10 AM
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kram
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

dhal22:

Whom do you recommend?


mt
Old 11-24-2008, 09:45 AM
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butlern
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

I have experience with National Balsa, too. I think they're just fine, but I would caution that builders purchasing wood from National Balsa online should be prepared for some sub-optimal balsa to arrive (unless you specifically purchase the "Aero lite" balsa).

I would call directly and ask specifically for the appropriate grade of balsa that you need/want.

I did the online method (assuming it would all be reasonably light AA or AAA grade), but several of the pieces (some sticks and blocks in particular) were very dense and not usable for my application. All the 1/16 and 3/32 sheeting I got was basically fine. Many of the sheets were wavy, but it all has to be sanded before edge-gluing anyway. The hardwood and A/C ply was top-notch.

So, that's my advice regarding National Balsa. Call, don't use the online ordering.

Noah
Old 11-24-2008, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

hi G-Pete!!newellcome!!!at home!!!....noooooo!!!!!!!the fiber booms I also want !!!!.... us that some of you must come to Italy from ??..... that after you pay the pizza!.....
Old 11-24-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Use flight skin for your sheeting.

http://www.fliteskin.com/page9.html
Old 11-25-2008, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Hi Pete,

The P38 is going to be my next build. Could you PM me your estimeated supply list to check against mine. I want to make sure I'm not leaving anything out!

Chris
Old 11-26-2008, 08:03 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Chris, this list is pretty much in the first post. Servos I buy as I go and the same with the servo cables. The fuel tanks I decide when I get to the Booms.
Doing that way has reasons, during the build I have changed course in the past. The first time I was stuck with the parts not the second time. Besides, it's a pretty good chunk of dough to peal out - spread out over a few month, we have warm and good food on the table not only Boloni Sandwich.hahaha

Happy landings
G-Pete
Old 11-30-2008, 12:32 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Hello Pete! Thanks for the link to this thread. I will be following it closely because someday I would like to build a 38. It was already mentioned above but I am churious if you will do the captured american plane color theme on this one. I think that it would be pretty cool. Are you planning on having the servos and linkages hidden like on your p-47? What is your target weight and the wingspan on this monster bird? Above all I am subscribed to this thread!



Mike
Old 12-10-2008, 11:49 AM
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G-Pete
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Started building (pictures follow this weekend) center section and one wing so far. I looked at the plans and did not like the flap setup. Not much scale like, I ordered plans and don't like them either. I looked at the robart flowler - nah too short. This gives you only 1 inch of travel ->aft.

Now here are my thoughts on flaps - they will be servo actuated. The prototype will be done hopefully by mid next week. A 3rd wing skeleton will be build and everything mounted there. Let's see if - and how it works.

Happy landings
G-Pete
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Old 12-10-2008, 12:07 PM
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G-Pete
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

...this setup would give me 184 square inches more of wing surface, this is 11% (!) additional.

Current wing load @ 45 pounds is 68.8 ounces per square foot
with the flaps extended it would be 57.3 ounces per square foot big difference!

Happy landings
G-Pete
Old 12-10-2008, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

You may have already seen this, try EboLaoooI FOWLER Flaps on RCU .
REGARDS John
Old 12-11-2008, 05:55 AM
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at-6 texan
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

hello G-Pete ... congratulations for the idea ... you could please put a picture of who should operate Often sleigh? ... to understand what the dimensoni be taken? ... hello and thank you again! ...
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:18 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

going to start building one here also, but building it for owner of local hobby shop. Will keep me busy.
making list of everything he wants on it so will know just how far i have to go with it. everything but the paint..
Will keep informed
Old 12-11-2008, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

G-Pete,

Do you think a stringer between the forward ends of the flap arms that have the pins sliding in the tracks will help with kepeing the pins in the slots and with any binding that could occur if the flap gets cocked sideways at all. Tough to protect against any twisting that the flap may do with aerodynamic forces, that too could cause some binding. What materials are you thinking of for the flap arms, tracks and pins? Are you thinking actuation will be about the same as the Model Airplane News plans, less the second control linkage to the flap itself? I wonder if anybody has pictures or sketches of the full scale P-38 flap hinges and mechanism? Are you using the same degree of flap for amount of extension as the full scale?
Old 12-11-2008, 09:46 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Scotsman,

Do you think a stringer between the forward ends of the flap arms that have the pins sliding in the tracks will help with kepeing the pins in the slots and with any binding that could occur if the flap gets cocked sideways at all.

For that I will make the prototype, if there is a binding a additional stringer will be attached.

Tough to protect against any twisting that the flap may do with aerodynamic forces, that too could cause some binding.

Even with a 10 degree twist at the trailing edge (near impossible) the offset on the sliders will be only 0.035 inches twist. The play supposed to be 0.065” …

What materials are you thinking of for the flap arms, tracks and pins?

Flap arms 1/8” aircraft ply, Tracks 1/4” aircraft ply the pins 1/8 aluminum bar stock.

Are you thinking actuation will be about the same as the Model Airplane News plans, less the second control linkage to the flap itself?

No, it will be servo actuated with a 2 inch arm.

I wonder if anybody has pictures or sketches of the full scale P-38 flap hinges and mechanism?

I have – will post them later

Are you using the same degree of flap for amount of extension as the full scale?

The extension – scale wise – is the same, but the degree is less. I'm here limited by design and materials. If I go and replica the full scale mechanism then the flap setup gets too heavy.

It will look like the full scale, I doubt anyone notice the 12 degree off compare to the full scale.



at-6texan, be patient pretty soon there will be more info and pictures…

thanks


Happy landings

G-Pete
Old 12-11-2008, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Hi G-Pete,
I'm right along side you with my Robart P-38 build. Sierra gear, Tru-turn spinners, Fowler Flaps, and also going for DA-85s. However, since my Solo prop tech has not panned out, the guys at DA suggest either a 3 24-12 or 3 24-12 wide blade Mejlic will be the optimum prop for warbird applications. Scale for the Z P38 and Robart is 25". And Mejlic make a 3 25-12 narrow chord. (I'm going for the 3-24 wide blade the 85 will accomodate it and the wide blade starts to look quite a bit like a Curtiss Electric prop. The 25 is too narrow and you may have to start worrying about ground clearance with the 25 incher) Regretably, this ends the idea of counter rotating props. Mejlic doesn't make one and although DA will modify a DA-85 for left hand (counter clockwise) rotation for only $35, we're stuck unless we want to pay $$$ for a custom build 3 blade left-hand prop. I was told Biela might do this but there's the cost factor again. Any ideas....? Anyone? (and no, I'm not going to use the Zinger bolt together 3 bladers. They scare me[].

(Oops. I just remembered. We'll have to wait until mid-January 09 for Slim Line to retool their Pitts mufflers for the DA-85. Seems they had a materials problem. Any suitable alternatives? I think I can wait...)

I'm subscribing and will enjoy watching your build.

Regards and good luck,
langerl
Old 12-11-2008, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

Yeah - the propellers....[:@]

Since Solo is out of the picture for right now - I weighing my options here, the scale prop would be - Z38 scale 5.47 - 25.22 inches. I had not made my final decision yet, however ones the DA85 is converted the reverse of the conversion is plain simple. I will order my 85's with the conversion.

I working on a deal about the carbon fiber propellers...no promise here.

To the mufflers, I always make my own - at least on the warbirds. You will see here some custom pipes...

Happy landings

G-Pete
Old 12-11-2008, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

G-Pete
You are making me drool this is one of my favorite planes
I have a 100in P-38 not a yellow
I know your a good builder but are you a fast builder
are you going to have this jewel ready for the Texas Scale Championships June 6
Cant wait to see it up close and personal
Lawrence
Old 12-11-2008, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: G-Pete's Ziroli P-38J Lightning build

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