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Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

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Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Old 12-20-2004, 09:13 AM
  #501  
SpudRacer
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

I have a Saito 200Ti sitting in my basement next to my 1.50 Mustang that I am hoping to install within the next 3-4 weeks. Why would it have less power than the Saito 180?? This doesn't make sense to me. I decided to go with the 200Ti for MORE power, not for the looks or sound. Since it is a cowled engine, and I'm using an on-board glow system, few people will actually see the engine anyway.

Should I opt for the 180? Does anyone feel that the 200Ti has MORE power? I have read that the power increases as the engine breaks in.

Tom
Old 12-20-2004, 05:07 PM
  #502  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Saito states that power of the 200Ti is comparable to the 180. I think that this is probably a little wishful thinking. But I've never owned a 180, nor have a seen a H9 150 P-51 with a 180 in it, so I have nothing to compare against.

My understanding is that multi-cylinders do not have the same power as a single of the same size.

In case you missed it in my earlier post, here is a link to a site that has a video of my 'Stang flying with the 200Ti. Just scroll down the list until you find it. [link=http://www.rcsites.net/psk560/]http://www.rcsites.net/psk560/[/link]

As you can see, it flies the plane just fine. I just wish it had more reserve power.

Walt
Old 12-20-2004, 06:38 PM
  #503  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Walt,

If I had a dollar for every time I have viewed your video, I might be able to afford a REAL P-51D. Seriously, I have watched it many times, and my wife has patiently watched it as well. I love the sound of the twin. I am not looking for a monster motor that will allow the plane to do more than it's original predecessor, but do not want a weak motor that does all it can just to keep the plane in the air.

I "may" be receiving a trainer (suggested above) for Christmas if my wife got my clue. I told her it was a financially smart move. I hope she agreed.

I can't wait to eventually move up to a turbine jet!!! Maybe in a year or two.

Tom
Old 12-20-2004, 07:01 PM
  #504  
Bill Yonescu
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

I have the Saito 200Ti waiting to go in it and have done some break in and various prop tests. I also have the Saito 180 ( for a different plane) but the only prop I tested on both engines is a MA Classic 18x6.

Saito 200Ti - 8400 RPM - 15 lbs 6 oz static thrust (w/o 5" spinner)
Saito 180 - 8800 RPM - 18 lbs static thrust (w/o 5" spinner)

both on 15% Cool Power

I'm going to use the MA Classic 16x10 for my mustang - it got 8700 RPM - 12 lbs 6 oz static thrust (with 5" spinner which reduces some of the thrust). (I think the prop is stalling) If I want more power I might try 30% helli


My 200Ti broke in very easily. A nice surprise. Didn't loose a cylinder ever. This is in contrast to my Saito 170R3 that took quite a while before it idled properly. I didn't use on-board on the 170R3 and don't plan on using it on the Mustang.


My Mustang is still in the Box waiting for me to start putting it together. Soon!

Bill
Old 12-20-2004, 07:56 PM
  #505  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Bill,

My 200Ti consistently dropped a cylinder without glow for the first gallon or so. Other than that, the RPM numbers that you are getting are right-on with my experience. I actually tried to fly it (maiden) with the 18x6 and it was very scary. No power and no speed. BAD combination on a Mustang.

The 16x10 seems to unload once the plane is flying and that gets the engine into the power band. And the plane flies much more nicely with a little speed behind it.

I switched from Cool Power 4-stroke fuel to 15% Omega and this seemed to help. Lately I've been using 30% heli. I can't tell too much of a difference between the Omega and heli fuel so I may go back to Omega.

I haven't had a tach on the engine for a while but now that the engine is fully broken in I would bet I am getting around 9000 RPM static with the 16x10.

I've been thinking about trying a 17x8 again to see what happens.

Its good to hear from someone else with experience with the 200Ti. I've felt like I've been alone on a desert island for the past 9 months!

Walt
Old 12-20-2004, 08:15 PM
  #506  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

I posted my 200Ti RPMs for various props on the tach reading forum earlier this year: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Saito_200Ti_RPM%2C_props%2C_fuel%3F/m_1939151/tm.htm]200Ti Tach Reading Thread[/link]

Bill, and others, please add your tach numbers to the thread. And I'll update my numbers now that my engine is broken in. Maybe we can start building up a knowledge base!

Walt
Old 12-21-2004, 12:29 AM
  #507  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Im building one of these now and putting a supertigre g-3250 in for power.....just wondering if anyone else has the same combo?
Ballance and power?? thx!!
Old 12-21-2004, 12:31 PM
  #508  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

ORIGINAL: Build-n-flyer-RCU

In case you missed it in my earlier post, here is a link to a site that has a video of my 'Stang flying with the 200Ti. Just scroll down the list until you find it. [link=http://www.rcsites.net/psk560/]http://www.rcsites.net/psk560/[/link]

Walt
Beautiful landing Walt - Howard
Old 12-21-2004, 03:48 PM
  #509  
Bill Yonescu
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Hi Walt,

I posted some tach numbers for the SAito 200 TI

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_19...anchor/tm.htm#

Bill
Old 12-21-2004, 04:38 PM
  #510  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

hdkeney- I'm glad I don't have any video of my earlier landings, before I got the plane trimmed and balanced right.

Bill- I looked at your numbers and they all make sense to me. You must have one heck of a collection of props! I think that the "ground" thrust readings are a bit misleading in this case. The smaller diameter, higher-pitched props "unload" in the air and you can really hear the RPMs go up when the plane is flying. This seems to make a big difference in performance.

Walt
Old 12-30-2004, 08:04 PM
  #511  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

OK, I need some help. I just finished installing the flap servos and testing them with my JR PCM10X radio. I have one side all set up, but when I try to adjust the linkage for the other side, I'm finding that the servo is working backwards. I've ordered a couple y-cables from Tower Hobby to run both flaps on a single channel, and the ailerons on a single channel, but is this going to fix the problem or do I have to wire up my own y-cable so both servos work in the same direction? Advise from the pros here is appreciated.

I'll be starting the landing gear soon, and I hope you're all happy to know that my wife did get me a Hobbico Nexstar trainer, and I'm so glad I listened to you guys. It comes with a computer program and I found I really stink at landings. I can fly a real plane easier than trying to do it from a spot on the ground. I can take off fine, and if I pilot carefully, I have no problem flying either, but landing with the plane flying towards me is so difficult to learn. Any pointers?

Thanks again guys, and my P-51 thanks you too!

Tom
Old 12-30-2004, 09:25 PM
  #512  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

A standard Y harness works fine for the ailerons, but I had to slave the second flap servo on a separate channel to get the flaps to work properly.
Old 12-30-2004, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

You will find that you have the same problem with the elevator halves (assuming that you are running them on separate servos). There are a few ways of dealing with this. You can get reverse-acting servos, or you can use a reversing Y-cable, or you can run the servos on separate channels.

The best way is to run the servos on separate channels and slave them together in the radio program. A reversing Y-cable is a simple solution but these can be a bit troublesome to keep adjusted. JR lists lots of reverse acting servos but I have never tried one.

As for landing.. Good news: once you get used to flying the trainer you will probably find that landing it in real life is actually easier than the computer program. Bad news: you will probably find that landing the P-51 is quite a bit harder than the program. Practice, practice!!!

Walt
Old 12-31-2004, 11:53 AM
  #514  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

THanks for the tip on a standard y-cable working for the ailerons. As for the elevators, I am planning to use only 1 servo for both elevators. I'll be going with a JR DS8411 for the elevators and for the rudder. That should provide more than enough torque.

I can't seem to find a reversing y-cable from JR. Does such a thing exist? How are they adjusted, by the transmitter programing I assume. As we are dealing with the flaps, I suppose is isn't crucial if they misalign a tad now and then.

You guys are great, I really appreciate the help.

Tom
Old 12-31-2004, 01:08 PM
  #515  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

I also used 1 8411 on the elevators...I soldered the 2 pushrods together and it works great. I also turned one of the flap servos around so they moved the same direction..then you can use a standard y cable and plug them into one channel just like the ailerons.
Mount the flap servos to the hatches per the instructions...then turn one of the hatches around so it faces the other direction. You will have to make another pushrod..because one servo output will be towards the leading edge of the wing and the stock rod will be too short. This setup is easy and works well.............Just an idea..
Old 12-31-2004, 08:43 PM
  #516  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

ORIGINAL: SpudRacer

I can take off fine, and if I pilot carefully, I have no problem flying either, but landing with the plane flying towards me is so difficult to learn. Any pointers?

Thanks again guys, and my P-51 thanks you too!

Tom
Hey Tom,
I teach my students to "get in the cockpit", [>:] that is, imagine as though you are in the plane and you see everything from that point of view. It will take a little bit of practice to make the mental transfer, but it works very well and before long, you don't even realize your doing it, and you're tearing up the sky.

I'm glad to hear that you got a trainer. It'll make you love your PONY even more and give you a much better likelihood of getting many very enjoyable flights from her.

Howard
Old 12-31-2004, 10:29 PM
  #517  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Tom,

My LHS's carry reversing Y's, there are quite a few companies that make them but I never did a search for one on the web. I avoid using them if at all possible. A reversing Y actually has a little screw adjusting pot where the cable branches that is used for trimming the servos together.

I forgot about the trick about reversing the servo mount- this is also a very good option (better than using a reversing Y).

I'm looking forward to hearing how your flights go with the trainer!
Old 01-13-2005, 08:54 AM
  #518  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

i had a word with the folks at robart and they recommended the #160lwc tailwheel or 163lwc. i nwould love to see pics of your install nad any detail of problems. any feedback from anyone especially regarding tailwheel gear doors would be appreciated.
regards robb
Old 01-26-2005, 09:20 PM
  #519  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Just a quick update on my progress,

1. I've gotten good enough on the sim program to fly for real and will take out my Nexstar as soon as weather permits.
2. I've managed to cut far enough into the wheelwells to install a set of Robart 531RS retracts with 663 struts, yet still mount the gear doors flush. Now all I have to do to finish the gear is to rebuild the rails using (hardwood or balsa) new wood epoxied into place. I welcome suggestions as to the choice of wood. I can snap a few photos, but will need help learning how to download them to the web site. Once the gear are done, the rest of the assembly should go rather quickly.
3. As for the flap servo problem, I found a company in Canada (BackyardFlying.com) that produces a reversing y-harness that I have been able to incorperate into my wing. Both flaps now run off a single channel and both flaps move equally. Thanks for all the advise on solving that problem.
4. I've got my propeller/spinner assembly in the mail. The prop is a solo 3-blade prop with adjustible pitch. It is pretty hefty in weight, hope I can balance the plane with the batteries in the tail without having to add more weight to the plane.

Tom
Old 01-26-2005, 09:47 PM
  #520  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

I agree with HD.You use both visual and your imagination,that your in the cockpit on your landings,sometimes if you bring her in looking over your shoulder [LOOKING OVER] it makes it a little easier.Make several approaches and fly-by's before you touch down.Tom
Old 01-28-2005, 12:20 PM
  #521  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

You definitely do not want to use balsa for beefing the gear rails... use only aircraft grade or birch to reinforce the rails.



ORIGINAL: SpudRacer

Just a quick update on my progress,

1. I've gotten good enough on the sim program to fly for real and will take out my Nexstar as soon as weather permits.
2. I've managed to cut far enough into the wheelwells to install a set of Robart 531RS retracts with 663 struts, yet still mount the gear doors flush. Now all I have to do to finish the gear is to rebuild the rails using (hardwood or balsa) new wood epoxied into place. I welcome suggestions as to the choice of wood. I can snap a few photos, but will need help learning how to download them to the web site. Once the gear are done, the rest of the assembly should go rather quickly.
3. As for the flap servo problem, I found a company in Canada (BackyardFlying.com) that produces a reversing y-harness that I have been able to incorperate into my wing. Both flaps now run off a single channel and both flaps move equally. Thanks for all the advise on solving that problem.
4. I've got my propeller/spinner assembly in the mail. The prop is a solo 3-blade prop with adjustible pitch. It is pretty hefty in weight, hope I can balance the plane with the batteries in the tail without having to add more weight to the plane.

Tom
Old 01-28-2005, 04:43 PM
  #522  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Even with the 200Ti up front you should be able to balance the plane by shifting the battery or batteries in front of or behind the servo tray. I am sure that you will not need any weight at the tail.

Assuming that you wil be running the 200Ti, make sure that you break the engine in and get the plane flying with a two blade prop before trying the three-blade. I recommend the MA classic 16x10 to start with. Believe me maidening this plane with too much prop, resulting in poor power, is the wrong thing to do. Been there done that when I maidened mine with an APC 18x6, and I am grateful that it at least had enough oomph to gain enough altitude to trim the plane.

Use aircraft-grade ply for the gear rails. I threw the old rails away, cut and laminated two pieces of ply for extra strength using epoxy, and then added extra bracing at the formers. End of problem. Now the wing would probably break in half before the gear rails!
Old 01-28-2005, 09:29 PM
  #523  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

Any suggestions where I can order some aircraft-grade ply or birch wood? I live in the boonies in Bryson City, NC. Everything needs to be done via internet ordering.

I appreciate the advise on the prop. I can adjust the pitch on the 3-blade to make the prop seem very small, just takes turning a screw. If I start with a 2-blade prop, I guess I'll have to rebalance the plane when I install the 3-blade.

Tom
Old 01-28-2005, 09:36 PM
  #524  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

I am sure if you used a YS 140 you would change your mind about the OS 160!
Old 01-28-2005, 11:59 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

You won't have to re-balance the plane. The difference in wt due to props and spinners should not be enough to make any real difference. If the 3-blade is really that heavy then I expect you may have problems running it, especially until the engine is well broken in.

I haven't heard of anyone running a 3-blade of any sort on the 200Ti and I know from experience that prop selection on this engine is pretty important. So you will be "breaking new ground". I am just strongly suggesting that you get everything else debugged and trimmed before throwing this big an unknown into the mix.

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