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Byron Mustang

Old 02-14-2011, 08:57 PM
  #376  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

SnakeBT6 this is your build thread not mine. give us an update on your progress. You are an inspiration to all. Keep the updates flowing.
Old 02-15-2011, 03:23 PM
  #377  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

I love where this build is going..

Good news for me.. My Neu gear drive motor and Castle 110HV arrived today..
It should drive the Byron 4 blade prop on 8S2P at 4,000 prm pulling 3,100 watts
Bad news. I forgot to tell my wife I ordered it.. Me ==> doghouse

time to turn a back plate for the prop and build a BIG stick mount so it'll bot into the old prop drive mounts.
Old 02-15-2011, 06:10 PM
  #378  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

sscherin think outside the box, youre not restricted to something hanging on old prop drive mounts. make a box that extends under the ply plate that goes horizontal under the pilot position. make it long enough to be your motor mount. use that box for batteries, radio, etc.
Old 02-16-2011, 04:32 PM
  #379  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Looks like I'll have to go outside the box.. The Neu is too long to clear the front former that mounts the drive.. Some of it will have to be cut away to clear the motor..
Old 02-16-2011, 08:48 PM
  #380  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

sscherin Good luck with it and send me pictures.
Old 02-20-2011, 08:30 AM
  #381  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Prop mounted on the Neu 1521/1.5Y/6.7HD



Old 02-20-2011, 10:22 PM
  #382  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Looks wicked sscherin, can't wait to see what Snake's been up to.
Old 03-02-2011, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

While we wait for an update from Snake I'll ask a question..

What would you use to glass the wings on a 1 piece kit?

Glass and Epoxy (what brand?) or glass and polycryllic?

If glass and epoxy would you use a peal ply to wick off excess resin or
Maybe even a vac bag at low pressure say 4-5hg

Maybe I'm over thinking it?

THanks
Old 03-02-2011, 08:30 PM
  #384  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

sscherin No matter what is said, always use a sacrificial test strip. Small quantities are the safe way until you gain experience with any glassing. Larger quantities generate more heat in the cureing process. Also, the fuse is made of polyester fiberglass resin. Use that on any foam and kiss it good-bye.Info below is cut & paste useful info from previous RCU posts. Hope this helps.


You can find the belts from Gates they are sold at Napa or should be able to be ordered at any auto parts that carry gates belts I think the number is M-450. Hope this helps.Gates Catalog:89020387 5M387(15.24 in length x 3/16 width). Small Drive for Pitts Special.
89020450 5M450( 17.72in length x 3/16 width ) P-51 Drive.
I've discovered Aerospace Composite Products E-Z Lam laminating resin. It sands a lot easier then finishing resin and much easier to work with. However it is much slower to cure, especialy in cooler temps.
GLASSING AN AIRPLANE
FOR STRENGTH AND
LIGHTNESS
by George Lumpkins
Most of an airplane's strength comes from the structure of the aircraft, for example, the ribs, main spars, formers, and sheeting on the wings and fuselage. However, what if this is not enough for your application?
When adding more structure to the inside will not solve your problems, maybe you should consider glassing the outside of your airplane. Glassing should be done to surfaces, not to bridge gaps like between ribs on a wing. Glassing consists of epoxy lathered onto fiberglass cloth.
The glassing I am referring to in this article is fiberglass cloth of any lightweight density and finishing epoxy of any make. Do not use regular epoxy as it is impossible to sand without balling or gumming up the sandpaper.
Epoxy glassing is a great way to add strength to all of the areas it is applied to. First you should place the glassing cloth over the area you intend to glass and cut it to shape with one to two inches to spare at all comers. This is just in case you don't place the cloth exactly the way you want it.
Next, mix up the epoxy resins for glassing. I mixed one-third hardener with one-third resin, and the last third with 91% pure rubbing alcohol. Pour some of the mixed resin onto to the area intended for glassing, and use a rubber squeegee to move it evenly around the whole surface. The wood will appear as if it is wet, but there should not be standing pools of epoxy.
Next place the fiberglass cloth onto the area where the resin is. Pour the remaining resin on until all of the white areas of the cloth have taken on a wet appearance. Allow this to dry for 10 hours or so before sanding or painting.
For anyone who has attempted to glass an airplane, you will quickly discover that you will get wrinkles or bubbles. If you try to push them out, the fabric tends to stretch and just makes matters worse.
When I glass anything, I use the flexible rubber squeegees. These work wonders for gently sliding the wrinkles to the sides.
Another suggestion, one that I use, is to take a Windex bottle (after using its contents and cleaning it) and fill it with rubbing alcohol. This will allow you to spray the alcohol onto your work evenly and it will delay the epoxy from curing immediately and thin it out a little.
After you're finished, you can use lightweight spackling putty to keep the weight down and fill in the small indentations left in the weaves of the cloth.
This is my two cents from my experiences from glassing on kits for strength. I personally have used all the techniques mentioned in this article.
from NOTAM Bayou City Flyers, 21215 Park Bluff Dr., Katy TX 77450
TRY THIS OUT
by Joe Podraza
If you're a scratch-builder and have never tried to iron on balsa, you should.
I don't remember the article, or in what magazine it was in, but I did try it out on a small model with tight curves in the fuselage and it worked well. No clamps or pins or holding the balsa down while the glue dries.
I now use it to plank the leading and trailing edges of my foam wings as well as the cap strips. So far, I haven't had any of the planking let go.
Using contact cement is okay, but once the planking is set in place, there is no moving it. With this method, you can take your time to line it up and hold it down while you iron it on.
I remember the article said it was an old-time cabinetmaker's way of laminating the top ply on. All that's needed is Elmer's glue or any glue that says it's aliphatic resin, a way to squeegee it on really thin on both sides that are to be joined, and an old iron that you can pick up at any thrift store.
Allow time for the glue to dry, then line up the planking and iron away. On the really sharp bends, I wet the outside of the balsa and the steam lets it bend without cracking.
If you don't believe the holding bond, just iron on a sheet of 1/16-inch balsa onto a piece of foam and try to rip it off. When it comes off, the foam will come with it. Once it's on, more heat will not loosen it. Just remember to put the glue on really thin. I use a rubber squeegee, and be sure to let it dry before you iron it on.
from Flypaper, Lake County Illinois Radio Control Club, Joe Podrapa.. Editor
We had that same style byron plane flying at a scale contest in the middle eighties at the field in Pueblo. I still have pictures of it. If I remember it flew all right, not a barn burner but acceptable. The way the engine mounts in the Byron 51 is unusual to say the least, it would require some conversion to fit a g-62 but if I were going to replace the origional engine that's what I would use. The mustang 50 that comes with that setup is an earlier version of the fuji 50. I fly the large TF 47 with a fuji 50 so I am sure it would fly if the weight is around 25lbs. Prop selection is important and those four blade byron props were not the best, really heavy also. You might try using a wood prop instead, would most likely work better
The reduction drive with the Fuji 50 will be at Toledo again this year. However its going to be hanging in the front of the Mustang. The performance is not spectacular, however the sound and look of that big 4 blade is spectacular. We have the blades in stock for the 4 blade reduction drive system. We are also bringing one of the Ryan STA's this year now that we have the kit available.

Archie Stafford
Iron Bay Model Company
Service Manager
masteromodels -> RE: Byron Mustang w/Original Byron 50Will it Fly? (4/3/2006 10:21:46 PM)

HEY ARCHIE I 'AM NOT TO SURE THESE FELLOW REALLY KNOW HOW THE P-51 FLYS WITH THE REDUCTION UNIT. I HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF THEM OVER THE YEARS AND IF YOU SET THAT ENG UP CORRECTLY AND HAVE THE UNIT LINED UP PROPERLY IT FLYS GREAT. I STILL HAVE 2 OF THEM WITH THE REDUCTION UNIT AND QUADRA 40 AND 42 AND THEY HAUL PRETTY DARN GOOD. IN FACT THEY FLY VERY SCALE LIKE THE WAY A MUSTANG SHOULD FLY. NOT VERTICAL OUT OF SITE LIKE YOUR OVER POWERED STUNT PLANES. AND THOSE BLADES ARE AS TOUGH AS NAILS I STILL HAVE THE ORIGINAL SET ON MY FIRST ONE WITH THE ONE PIECE WING. NOTHING LIKE THAT BIG 4 BLADED TURNING AROUND 2800 OR 3K.
I've seen the Byron P-51 fly with the Q42 and it climbs out faster than the Mustangs at Reno. Not everything is 3D.
Fred, If you take your time, you will be rewarded with a great flying model. I have built many Byron models professionaly over the years. Make sure you sand the inside of the fuse with 80 grit before attaching the formers. Also wash the inside of the fuse , cowl ext. with white vinegar to remove all parting agents. Also only use polyester resin to glass the formers in place. No epoxy. Epoxy will not stick well to the polyester fuse. Use 1 1/2 oz. cloth over the foam wings and tail surfaces, not the .75 oz. cloth. This will keep you from punching through the glass when handling the model, and help keep hanger rash down to a minimum. Make sure you over lap the leading edge well, with enough glass and resin to prevent dings also. Also use foam friendly paints. Automotive thinners anc get through the pin holes and melt the foam. I normally used K&B pants for that reason. I now use latex paints with Nelson clear. You could also use all Nelson paint as well. Good luck with your Mustang.
[b]oh and don't forget too fred what ever you do DONT USE POLYESTER RESIN ON THE WINGS or you won't have any wings left.......polyester resin eats foam like there's no tomorrow , midwest resins or any other good laminating resin will work here, the bigger the ration the better the epoxy!
Fred, the fuse is made from fiberglass cloth empregnated with polyester resin.
That is why you want to use polyester resin to glass the formers into the fuse. For glassing the foam wings I would use Zap finishing epoxy mixing 20-30% dnatured alcohol to thin to a milk consistancy. This will allow the resin to soak into the cloth and foam with out causing problems while brushing it on. I normally lay the cloth over the part(bottom side first just like plastic covering) I also use masking tape to mask the edge so the epoxy does do run over to the unglassed side and create blobs on the foam. A real night mare. I put it along the leading edge and trailing edge. I allow the glass to over lap the leading edge by 1/2". When the epoxy hardens. You then trim the excess glass cloth with 320 grit wet or dry sand paper on a sanding block. You just sand at the mask line. Then remove tape. Finish tapering edge with sanding block. Then remask other side(by the way you need not mask more than about 3 inches back from the leading edge or trailing edge).
Fred, I forgot to mention you can buy polyester resin at Walmart in the automotive section. Bondo brand. It is the same as what we buy at the hobby shop but a lot less money. Use about twice the amount of catylist that is suggested. Instead of 8 drops per oz., I would use 15 drops.
Fred, the fuse is made from fiberglass cloth empregnated with polyester resin.
That is why you want to use polyester resin to glass the formers into the fuse. For glassing the foam wings I would use Zap finishing epoxy mixing 20-30% dnatured alcohol to thin to a milk consistancy. This will allow the resin to soak into the cloth and foam with out causing problems while brushing it on. I normally lay the cloth over the part(bottom side first just like plastic covering) I also use masking tape to mask the edge so the epoxy does do run over to the unglassed side and create blobs on the foam. A real night mare. I put it along the leading edge and trailing edge. I allow the glass to over lap the leading edge by 1/2". When the epoxy hardens. You then trim the excess glass cloth with 320 grit wet or dry sand paper on a sanding block. You just sand at the mask line. Then remove tape. Finish tapering edge with sanding block. Then remask other side(by the way you need not mask more than about 3 inches back from the leading edge or trailing edge).
As far as paint goes, I would recommend using the Latex primer, and color. Put graphics on it and clear with polyurathane clear, or Nelson Aircraft clear with cross linker. The cross linker makes the paint harder. I have not used Klass cote paints. Thre Latex is many times less expensive, and they will mix it to match in small amounts perfectly at the paint store. With Klass Cote you are on your own to match the colors yourself by mixing the paint yourself.
You need the heavier glass cloth as I mentioned to keep from crushing the foam wings and tail surfaces when handling the model. It will not add that much weight. I have built 30 -40 Byron models over the years for myself and customers and have had no problems with weight.
Gary
Fred, If you take your time, you will be rewarded with a great flying model. I have built many Byron models professionaly over the years. Make sure you sand the inside of the fuse with 80 grit before attaching the formers. Also wash the inside of the fuse , cowl ext. with white vinegar to remove all parting agents. Also only use polyester resin to glass the formers in place. No epoxy. Epoxy will not stick well to the polyester fuse. Use 1 1/2 oz. cloth over the foam wings and tail surfaces, not the .75 oz. cloth. This will keep you from punching through the glass when handling the model, and help keep hanger rash down to a minimum. Make sure you over lap the leading edge well, with enough glass and resin to prevent dings also. Also use foam friendly paints. Automotive thinners anc get through the pin holes and melt the foam. I normally used K&B pants for that reason. I now use latex paints with Nelson clear. You could also use all Nelson paint as well. Good luck with your Mustang.
Gary Webb
oh and don't forget too fred what ever you do DONT USE POLYESTER RESIN ON THE WINGS[B] or you won't have any wings left.......polyester resin eats foam like there's no tomorrow , midwest resins or any other good laminating resin will work here, the bigger the ration the better the epoxy!
Retract assembly complete. I found a really good video about using AC compressor oil to maintain and lube the interior seals and help with eliminating air leaks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxUGVuI42MI
I was reading in RC Modeler a few months ago about adding weight to the right wing to counter the rolling effect of the aircraft chasing the torque from the engine. I tried it in one of my planes and I couldn’t believe how well it worked. The calculation was to take the Cubic inches of the engine and double it in ounces. For example. I have an Ultra Stick with a OS 46. I used .92 ounces in the right wing tip
Old 03-03-2011, 06:34 AM
  #385  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

I used 3/4 ounce fiberglass on my one piece Byron P-51 foam wing with Z-Poxy finishing resin' which can be thinned some (20% maybe) with denatured alchohol. There are basically two techniques you can use: Brush resin on top of one half of the wing, lay the fibreglass on it, brush it down, then begin the squeegee process with a credit card or scraper made for removing excess resin. I followed that with toilet paper on a stick, rolling the toilet paper over the resin, tear off the wet paper, repeat until as much of the resin as possible has been removed. The second technique is to lay the glass on one half the wing, then brush the resin onto the dry fibreglass, working it into and through the weave to the foam, then repeat the above squeegee/toilet paper routine. The more resin you get off the the glass, the lighter it will be and less sanding required prior to applying the primer coats to fill the weave.
Regards,
Gus
Old 03-03-2011, 03:22 PM
  #386  
SnakeBT6
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Looks great sscherin...Looks like really nice machine work.

I havent been up to anything guys as Ive been working a ton and when I have some free time im just not motivated to get going again..

Please feel free to post away..alot of good refrences in here.

Itll strike me soon enough to get going again..
Old 04-03-2011, 10:16 PM
  #387  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Snake: haven't heard in a while so I started my own.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10441461
Old 04-04-2011, 01:21 AM
  #388  
sscherin
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

I finally got around to finishing my prop balancer..

Well almost.. I made the balance shaft from 5/16 music wire and the thing is bent..

I plan to get some 1/4" drill rod to make a new stronger one.
Old 04-04-2011, 11:46 PM
  #389  
sscherin
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

I finished a rough looking prototype prop balancer.. It functions better than expected so looks are not so important right?
For all purposes it's just a giant version of the Dubro balancer.

Just some scrap MDF, some CDs with 608 bearings mounted in them and a few nuts and bolts..

The centering cones are held in place with wheel collars..

Out of the box the bearings resist rolling because of the thick grease but knocking off the dust shields, washing them out with starting fluid and a few drops of tri-flow go them spinning freely..

All total I spent about $8..

I made a video but I can't find a way to get it off this stupid windows 7 phone

Don't worry,, that Wii game was ruined long before I got my hands on it..
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:39 PM
  #390  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

SnakeBT6 Looking for updates. We love what youhave done!
Old 05-01-2011, 03:14 PM
  #391  
SnakeBT6
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Hi Guys..

Just recently turned it around and did some riveting and working my toward completeing that..as well I layed out the checkers on the front and will paint them the next nice weekend im around..

Unfortunately I havent put the time on this that I used too..Being single and working NYC kind of keeps most of my time..Its sort of on the shelf for now as I just have so much other stuff happening. Its ok for me though as it will always be here and I can always pick it up again..

I also picked up the Corsair on the buy and sell forums awhile back..I had a vision of modifying it to being "more scale" one day..Otherwise it looks really cool in my place as I have really high ceilings and everyone that comes around thinks its pretty cool..LOL
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:48 PM
  #392  
sscherin
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

I made a bench mount and gave my motor/byron prop setup a test run.
Neu 1521/1.5Y/6.7 on 8S 5,000 with castle 110 HV ESC

I had to keep a foot on the workmate or it would pull it over

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFfIObkc25w[/youtube]

Sorry no test data.. Batteries in the tach were dead and I need to make a shunt for the amp meter.
Old 09-17-2011, 07:35 PM
  #393  
SnakeBT6
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Nice guys..

Ive been away with life and work.

Ive picked things up again, and started riveting some more, and did some eye candy just to get inspired. The riveting on the body is about 90% at this point, and I should finish it up this week. Some minor FM work then on to dry transfers and completion of the painting.
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:37 PM
  #394  
SnakeBT6
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Ill post more as I complete..
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:19 AM
  #395  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Looks great Snake. Been busy myself (coaching HS baseball, Umping travel baseball, rebuilding my seawall, adding on to my build room, flying, etc, etc).Seeing yourpostis definitly motivating me to get back in the saddle. Keep the photo's comming.
Old 09-18-2011, 01:17 PM
  #396  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

Got a few more..

Broke it down and did some weathering..the FM came out very bright in the pics but in reality it looks more matt.

*Edit* I think maybe its too much weathering on the ID stripe compared to the letters and #'s. My intent was to have alot removed from the front of the vertical stab..Im going to leave it for now but may fill in some black as it may be too much in realtion to the rest of it.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:32 AM
  #397  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang


ORIGINAL: sscherin

I made a bench mount and gave my motor/byron prop setup a test run.
Neu 1521/1.5Y/6.7 on 8S 5,000 with castle 110 HV ESC

I had to keep a foot on the workmate or it would pull it over

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFfIObkc25w[/youtube]

Sorry no test data.. Batteries in the tach were dead and I need to make a shunt for the amp meter.
That is insane!!!!
You must post RPM's.

Cheers,

Brad
Old 09-19-2011, 06:56 AM
  #398  
HUNTERANDJEFF
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

That is really cool, I wonder if I could get rid of the Quadra motor and replace it with an electric motor and still have the gear drive system?
J
Old 09-20-2011, 03:42 AM
  #399  
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Default RE: Byron Mustang

With the torque and rpm's you're getting using an electric setup, you would'nt need it!


Ssecherin,

Love your set up...how would you rate the Nue motors? Seems like a stump puller! I need another motor for a BT Spitfire thats next on the bench...

Thanks, and great looking build!!

Casey
Old 03-17-2019, 07:41 AM
  #400  
SnakeBT6
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Default

So Ill try and keep a long story short. (im the original thread starter)

I got married had no room for the plane and it wound up in storage. (We lived in NYC and had a small place out on LI for the weekends.) We got divorced 5 or 6 yrs later and my ex who is my ex for good reason lol wouldnt give me access to our storage unit. So in addition to some art and furniture etc.. this airplane is in her storage unit out in West Hampton Long Island.

I had moved to Florida last year and left all that stuff behind. I got an email from All Hamptons Storage that the unit is now in default. I know there are a few flying clubs out there and if any one sees the plane up for sale, I have a bunch of things for it plus the wing. I lived in an apartment when I was building it and took the wing to my parents place to work on it. They moved to FL and brought it with them so I have it here.

If anyone sees this for sale on Long Island, or winds up with it let me know and Ill send the wing to you and some of the other items I have. Ive got the Byro Drive and all that. Id love to see someone finish it.

Ill get you the parts I have for shipping if you wind up with the plane.




I fly foam electric stuff now and did scale up a nice 70" P51. Not the same but its where Im at now....sacrilege LOL.




Last edited by SnakeBT6; 03-17-2019 at 07:57 AM.

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