Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Politically Correct. Madness.

It seems that all of the WWII German aircraft models produced by model making companies in the last year or two have been minus the swastika marking on the airplanes rudder. This is taking "PC" to the level of madness in my opinion.

Re-writing history is not the way to remember it, and stop it from occurring again.

Perhaps the Nazi's did not exist? It would seem that is the way some people would like to have us believe? By removing the swastika from photos in history books, and from historical models? Well, that is what is happening.

Some people, including the lunatic president of Iran, deny the concentration camps of WWII Germany (the Holocaust) ever happened. Removing the swastika from photos, school textbooks, and model airplanes is fuel that feeds the fire of denial.

I know that Germany has long banned the image of the swastika, because they have serious issues with their own history. But the rest of the world? Please......

How do YOU feel about this?

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Your poll is missing a category - captured German planes flying with allied insignia.

Not to disagree, just saying that category is missing from your poll selections.

Edit to add : By the way, those Iranian history books don't mention the 6 day war, either. What I expect from that regime does not include accuracy or real history, just propaganda. Here in the states, you would think that the ordinary citizen would demand accuracy in depiction of Nazi aircraft... but you would find yourself sometimes mistaken.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

ZERO-322

My Feedback: (2)

I'm sorry but i'm not sure i understand the question , are you asking if the swastica should be on the planes or not ? is that the question ?

denoferth

My Feedback: (71)

Hi Tom,
I must confess to losing patience with the PC crowd who weren’t even born during WWII. I too believe that leaving the swastika off aircraft that originally were marked with it is the height of political correctness which is simply put; the nitch reserved for intellectual cowards. On the other hand I don’t advocate suffering those misguided fools who insist in using it to decorate aircraft of models that were never so marked but it’s omission on political grounds, because it MAY offend someone, is juvenile at best. Let’s face the fact that there will ALWAYS be someone who will “offended” by something we do. Since I prefer humor, I suggest we should give them every opportunity to mature, grow up or, failing that, to procure a glass belly button in order to see out more clearly.
Dennis

Asanders

I was flying my Fw-190 with accurate markings one Saturday. After I had landed I noticed a man with his son standing looking at my plane. I casually walked over and engaged him in conversation. We talked about the airplane and how well it flies. He and his son liked the airplane. I finally got around to the usual asking, "So where are you from?" He said Israel. They were visiting family here. I started stuttering and felt all embarrassed. I even said something like " I don't promote the Nazi way of life etc I am just flying a scale replica of a German warplane from that era. He almost started laughing at me for my embarrassment, but instead he answered and told me he was not offended by my aircraft or its insignia and understood that I was more interested in scale.

No matter what he said I was still embarrassed. Funny that.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

it really does a disservice to the men and women who fought to allow for free speech and freedom,from all nations, to properly, correctly, and accurately .

when I see a swastika on the tail or when its correctly ( historically) placed its a reminder of the terror brought on by fanatics, and the need for remembering this was actual history, not some made up tale, like some would like to believe it was.

its when the sign is used as a rally cry for some nut bag organization/group, does the message or intention become clouded in a non historical hate mongering way, best to remember and try to not let this page of history repeat its self, although it has on several levels since WWII just no to the mass levels of the nazis

ZERO-322

My Feedback: (2)

ok never mind i had to re read the question now i get it , DUH ! LOL

ChuckW

I wonder how long before someone proposes a scale contest or aerobatic competition where everyone gets a trophy for participating so that nobody has to be disappointed by losing? The PC nuts do it in kids sports.

Scott Douglas

Am I not correct in saying that it's forbidden to display the Swastika in Germany so technically you cannot have a scale German warbird if you live there? Maybe one of my German friends will chip in here?

landeck

My Feedback: (1)

There is a reason beyond PC for not putting a swastika on the tail of the ARFs. Most ARFs are made in Asia for sale world wide. Europe and Germany are a large market. It is illegal to display the swastika in Germany and therefore any ARFs sold there can not have a swastika on the tail. Major Decals provide decal sets of German aircraft markings. They are povided with/without swastikas. The ones with swastikas can not be bought in Germany. If you want a swastika on the tail for realism, just order one from Major Decals or elsewhere and added it yourself. That is what I do.

Bruce

Walt Thyng

My Feedback: (9)

Okay for the world wide manufacturers. But I pesonaly would never be embarrassed to fly a model with the swastika; it is historically accurate and nobody can deny that anymore than they can deny the holocaust. On the other hand most German a/c were flown by other nationalities and I try to find them in deference to those that are offended.

Just to make my point, I refused to ride my Harley (the American dream) with anyone who wore a German helmet. It seemed to me that Harleys represented everything that was antithesis to Nazism. On the next hand, after 30 years of riding Harleys, i now ride a (GERMAN) BMW.
Walt

allanflowers

I remember an editorial in MA by Dave Brown a few years back about the use of the swastika. I guess it represented the official position of the AMA, at least at that point.
He recommended that any generic German aircraft model not have the swastika. However if one was portraying an historical aircraft that actually existed, then the markings should be accurate. So, with this approach, many generic ARFs would go without - and that seems reasonable to me.
I could be wrong but I think some actual German airplanes just had a German cross. The history buffs can correct me, please.

jmohn

Our club took a photo of my Stuka (with swastika) and placed it in the club newsletter. Someone sent and email and called complaining about the photo. The next weekend I had someone at the field come by and yell at me about the same plane. After calming them down I explained the context of the swastika and how this was a "scale" event and that was on the real plane. She didnt't care, so I bent over and tore off the swastika and asked if that was better. It think she actually felt bad at that point, but I didn't want her feeling bad as she had some familty members in the concentration camps in Germany during the war. I put it back on for the next event and haven't seen her since.


Jeff

G-Pete

Well in Germany exist a law
Paragraf 130 Absatz 4 des Strafgesetzbuches (Volksverhetzung): "Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung den öffentlichen Frieden in einer die Würde der Opfer verletzenden Weise dadurch stört, dass er die nationalsozialistische Gewalt- und Willkürherrschaft billigt, verherrlicht oder rechtfertigt."

That means you can get up to 3 years of jail if you display at a gathering or in public any symbols of the nazi power in a kind someone could be offended.

In 2005 the law was revised and the punishment increased – even with “small” offences, like wearing a T-shirt with a swastika on it. Tattoos have to be covered or you face arrest.

October 29 a lawsuit was squashed from the highest constitutional court “ The Paragraph 130 StGb. It’s not unconstitutional and does not cut into the �freedom of speech.

The Germans are not scared the nazis come back – no they are scared what the rest of the world thinks and say about them

Interesting the German Constitution baselines were set by the allies after WW2. Germany still don’t have a freedom contract and still remain under a ceased fire agreement. Billions of dollars still floating for repairs to the former enemies, no end in sight.
The German armed forces are only allowed to mobilize in a direct attack (also in the constitution) - It was little disturbing for me when the US ask Germany to join the war in Iraq. Germany had to decline because of that, choice of breaking the constitution or make a friend mad…but this is a different story.

To answer your question: The model manufactures just follow one thing and this


$$


With swastikas on the tail you need to separate the markets and offering in two styles – so what they do is very simple - they leave it off.

Never ever anybody asked me if I’m nazi with a German captured (historical correct and scale) P-47D 2-RA the Beetle.

If you don’t feel comfy with a historical warbird with a swastika on the tail – leave it off, but don’t expect many points in a scale competition.


As of politically correct; Freedom of speech and expression is political correct. I’m aware it is changing as of right now, but as long I can I will fly my german birds and german captured bird with the historical correct paintjobs.

Walt Thyng

My Feedback: (9)

G-Pete
My point exactly. Three cheers for you.
Walt

JET FX

Simple solution for the manuafcturers is to not affix any Swastika and simply supply these correct scale decals along with their kits and just let us modelers then decide and attach as we prefer....


The image's true long term origins are quite interesting from a historical point of view and are well worth doing a little research on - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika


(Chilocco Indian School basketball team circa 1909).

G-Pete

With this bird she would have an stroke - BTW: with yelling my selective hearing kicks in

alanc

AN IMMOTIVE SUBJECT, on our 2 stukas, we show the swastika, you get this aircraft, so does the UK, in germany, the swastika is left off,

several years ago, one of the top german warbird guys, brought over his ME109, it had the swastika fitted, with, pardon my memory, hope i get it right, ZENSORT in red, across the fin swastika, this was allowed by the german authorities, when we went to the nuremburg hobby show, we took the stuka, because Lindinger did not, as yet have one, we where asked (not under pain of death) to simply turn the swastika into a diamond shape, by joining the corners with black paint,

they are now part of history, no-one should not be taught that this evil sign existed,

denoferth

My Feedback: (71)

Wow! Has it been a year already? Let’s beat this subject to death a bit more and waste no more time getting on to the downwind turn and absolutely correct WWI colors.
Dennis

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

It is important to note that it was not allowed for the German military to be affiliated with a political party. Do not get the regular army confused with the SS. This is a way that Hitler exploited the military as he knew of the oath and dedication to the military.
That being said, German helmets are not political symbols and you could always say it was a WW1 helmet. I think they are cool as I am fascinated with German military and wear a German helmet at all events that require me to. (Pylon, combat)
Again, the masses are generally so mis-informed, I get comments about the iron cross as being racist! The motivation for the PC crowd is the exploitation of the ignorance of most to initiate a power grab. It's roots are with the communists which should not be surprising. It undermines individual rights.
I think you should feel just fine riding with German helmeted Harley riders.

STUKA BARRY

Now who's cryin???

oskartek

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


              That's my thought an I'm stickin' to it.

jlinde

My Feedback: (2)

Iown severalNazi-era Luftwaffe aircraft (the most recent addition is a KMP Stuka) and have been interested in German aircraft for years.Most of my Luftwaffe models are Swastika free.Why?It’s not out of fear that I might “offend” someone.It’s certainly not because I’m “politically correct.”

It is, instead, based onrespect.

There are holocaust survivors living in my area.Men and women who survived the Nazi extermination camps.Auschwitz, Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzec,Bergen-Belsen. The Nazis murdered their parents, children, families.

Perhaps.But the Swastika has real meaning, it’s certainly not an empty symbol, it’s not devoid of power.“[I]in the swastika [is found] the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic." Adolf Hitler,Mein.To a survivor, the Swastika is an intensely visceral reminder of suffering, humiliation, loss, grief.

And, out of respect for them, if I intend to fly the plane in question at the beach, ball field, park, or other non-aviation-specific location, I’ll dispense with the Swastika.If I intend to fly the plane at a dedicated facility (as I will with the KMP Stuka), chances are that I'll include the Swastika.

Bottom line is that my mother taught me to treat my elders with sensitivity and respect.I hope I'm not being too "politically correct" by considering the impact of my hobby on their well being.

(As a side note, I doubt that flying really, really scale model airplanes (even with Swastikas) will have much impact on Holocaust denial, deepen in the slightest way the citizenry’s respect for veterans, or teach our children the lessons of WWII.Unless the primary lesson is that war is fun.After all, model planes are fun.We fly them for fun.)

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

All that is nothing but PC. You won't put the emblem on your German bird from the era but its perfectly fine for the emblem to be on every P-51 as a kill marking.


I proudly display my German captured P-47, swastika and all. Its Scale and that is how the plane looked. Just like I would display my American planes with the swastika kill emblems or Japanese flags or russian stars.

We are enacting history in the scale world. Both the good and bad parts. Least we not forget!

Javier-RCU

My Feedback: (6)

Is the Stalin´s Russian star a correct symbol? think if you were living in USA on early 60´s and your russian scale plane wore a red star on tail? may be you could be acused from the congress as a comunist. Don´t you?

The big mistake here, is that people understand the history as a value but the history is a principle. Is crude but is the history, nothing related to feelings and values...is simple history, you cannot change that, instead you should to accept and try to understand.

BTW i have a Dora with Swastika and i am proud of her realism, because i am respecting the history.


Javier