ESM P-51B-Impressions
12-14-2009, 08:13 PM
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ESM P-51B-Impressions
I have started a ESM P-51B and thought I'd give a few insights. If anyone else would like to add to this thread, please feel free.
a. The overall quality of the kit itself is very good and for the price, I got mine from TBM, well worth the dollars spent.
b. The hardware, especially the pushrods are very poor in quality.
c. The plastic tubes within the fuselage, which are supposed to be for the pull-pull, are EXTREMELY brittle and I decided to remove them
and use carbonfibre pushrods with 4-40 ends instead.
d. The tailwheel looks cheesy and I am replacing it with a more "scale like" tailwheel, still opting not to make it retractable.
e. I mounted a RCGF 26cc rear carb on the firewall. The cross marks that are factory marked on the FW were 1/4 inch off, heigth wise.
Do not mark and drill for the engine by using these marks. The directions say that the distance from the FW to the back of the prop
is 158mm, it is 155mm. If you are going to use a rear carb engine make sure you open up the firewall to accomodate the carb.
Fortunately, I can still easily access the needles on my engine but I am still trying to figure out how to access the choke.
f. Since I am using an RCGF I opted not to use the OEM muffler as it would nessitate cutting too much of the side cowl. Instead, I
ordered a new side exhaust muffler from B&B. I know I could use a KELEO rear dump but they are expensive and would block
getting to the carb needles.
g. I will be using the ESM retracts made for this model, and first impressions out of the box are fairly good. I will not be using the air kit
and will replace the lines, retract valve and fill valve with ROBART parts. The gear themselves look good and feel smooth in
operation.
h. Be careful cutting the plastic pieces. They look well made but are brittle. If possible, warm them up in some very warm water and
dry them and cut them while they are still warm. ( Hope that makes sense, but it works).
I wish I had a camera to show you a few of the things I'm talking about here, but maybe someone else does. I believe when I'm done the plane will look pretty darned good and should be a good flier.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
a. The overall quality of the kit itself is very good and for the price, I got mine from TBM, well worth the dollars spent.
b. The hardware, especially the pushrods are very poor in quality.
c. The plastic tubes within the fuselage, which are supposed to be for the pull-pull, are EXTREMELY brittle and I decided to remove them
and use carbonfibre pushrods with 4-40 ends instead.
d. The tailwheel looks cheesy and I am replacing it with a more "scale like" tailwheel, still opting not to make it retractable.
e. I mounted a RCGF 26cc rear carb on the firewall. The cross marks that are factory marked on the FW were 1/4 inch off, heigth wise.
Do not mark and drill for the engine by using these marks. The directions say that the distance from the FW to the back of the prop
is 158mm, it is 155mm. If you are going to use a rear carb engine make sure you open up the firewall to accomodate the carb.
Fortunately, I can still easily access the needles on my engine but I am still trying to figure out how to access the choke.
f. Since I am using an RCGF I opted not to use the OEM muffler as it would nessitate cutting too much of the side cowl. Instead, I
ordered a new side exhaust muffler from B&B. I know I could use a KELEO rear dump but they are expensive and would block
getting to the carb needles.
g. I will be using the ESM retracts made for this model, and first impressions out of the box are fairly good. I will not be using the air kit
and will replace the lines, retract valve and fill valve with ROBART parts. The gear themselves look good and feel smooth in
operation.
h. Be careful cutting the plastic pieces. They look well made but are brittle. If possible, warm them up in some very warm water and
dry them and cut them while they are still warm. ( Hope that makes sense, but it works).
I wish I had a camera to show you a few of the things I'm talking about here, but maybe someone else does. I believe when I'm done the plane will look pretty darned good and should be a good flier.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-14-2009, 08:33 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Do you think the DLE30 would be a good fit with minimal cutting of the FW or the cowl ? I hate cutting into a model for any reason if it could be avoided then I would chose that route
12-14-2009, 08:41 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
ZERO-322,
I agree, I hate cutting unnecessarily. I do not know the dimensions of the DLE30, but that should be a very nice engine for these size warbirds. I am happy with the RCGF 26cc but the OEM muffler was too thick and using it would've meant cutting too much of the cowlings side. In my case, a rear dump would totally block access to the needles so I opted to have Dick at B&B build me a side dump muffler. I'll still need to open up the side but it shouldn't be too excessive.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
I agree, I hate cutting unnecessarily. I do not know the dimensions of the DLE30, but that should be a very nice engine for these size warbirds. I am happy with the RCGF 26cc but the OEM muffler was too thick and using it would've meant cutting too much of the cowlings side. In my case, a rear dump would totally block access to the needles so I opted to have Dick at B&B build me a side dump muffler. I'll still need to open up the side but it shouldn't be too excessive.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-14-2009, 09:51 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Loopman can i impose on you for the cowling dimension Length width and depth ? thanks so much !
scalecraft I have about a half dozen CMP warbirds and all the fuses are Fiberglass and epoxy
scalecraft I have about a half dozen CMP warbirds and all the fuses are Fiberglass and epoxy
12-14-2009, 10:01 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Scalecraft : never mind I stand corrected it is fiberglass and poly, I never paid attention to it I double checked with a tech from nitroplanes and they confirmed what you said
12-15-2009, 04:20 AM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
ZERO-322,
It's not an imposition, I'll get them for you and post here later today. Scalecraft, I can only say that the glass work looks to be the same as on my CMPro Messerchmitt, I believe it's epoxy.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
It's not an imposition, I'll get them for you and post here later today. Scalecraft, I can only say that the glass work looks to be the same as on my CMPro Messerchmitt, I believe it's epoxy.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-15-2009, 04:46 AM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Hi Loopman,
could you post the weight of the model as it comes out of the box? Btw, you should recheck the inforamtion given about CG orgiven in the manual. An Austrian customer reported some problems here.
could you post the weight of the model as it comes out of the box? Btw, you should recheck the inforamtion given about CG orgiven in the manual. An Austrian customer reported some problems here.
12-15-2009, 04:28 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
I was looking at the ESM p-51B but the landing gear looked flimsy and the tires looked too small so I decided to go with the top flite p-51D 60 kit and convert it to the B model..The gear in the top flite kit is awesome and the plane is built like a tank, I love the big tires ...very nice for my crappy grass field
12-15-2009, 07:09 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Bugaloob,
The ESM kits do not come with retracts only some cheesy looking fixed gear. There really is no comparison with the Top-Flite .60 size Mustang, the ESM wins hands down. The ESM retracts have some issues but nothing that can't be worked out.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
The ESM kits do not come with retracts only some cheesy looking fixed gear. There really is no comparison with the Top-Flite .60 size Mustang, the ESM wins hands down. The ESM retracts have some issues but nothing that can't be worked out.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-15-2009, 07:12 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Pippin,
I can't really give you the weight out of the box as I have all ready glued the wing halves together. Maybe TBM or VQ Warbirds could hook you up with that info.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
I can't really give you the weight out of the box as I have all ready glued the wing halves together. Maybe TBM or VQ Warbirds could hook you up with that info.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-15-2009, 07:18 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
ZERO-322,
The distance from the firewall to the front of the cowl is 156mm. The width (in inches) is 6 7/8ths and the heigth is 7 3/4s. Hope this helps.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
The distance from the firewall to the front of the cowl is 156mm. The width (in inches) is 6 7/8ths and the heigth is 7 3/4s. Hope this helps.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-16-2009, 04:04 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
ESM WARBIRDS are EPOXY/glass not poly/glass
We do have the RCFG/AEROVATE INCOWL mufflers instock now for this model....they will keep cutting to a minimum and keep most everything in the cowl ...
We offer SIERRA RETRACTS and Factory ESM RETRACTS for this model so you HAVE A CHOICE in GEAR and almost all the ESM WARBIRD LINE...
IF ANYONE HERE needs any more info... I DO NOT want to takeaway from this assembly thread...so feel free to email me direct:
[email protected]
-CHEERS!
TOMAS
VQ WARBIRDS
"KEEP 'EM FLYING"
www.vqwarbirds.com
[email protected]
We do have the RCFG/AEROVATE INCOWL mufflers instock now for this model....they will keep cutting to a minimum and keep most everything in the cowl ...
We offer SIERRA RETRACTS and Factory ESM RETRACTS for this model so you HAVE A CHOICE in GEAR and almost all the ESM WARBIRD LINE...
IF ANYONE HERE needs any more info... I DO NOT want to takeaway from this assembly thread...so feel free to email me direct:
[email protected]
-CHEERS!
TOMAS
VQ WARBIRDS
"KEEP 'EM FLYING"
www.vqwarbirds.com
[email protected]
12-16-2009, 06:33 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
I can post photos of the 26cc with the Keleo Muffler for sure... I am told the 28cc uses the same muffler mounting dimensions...
If this will help I will be glad to post the photos of the 26cc combo...
_TOMAS
VQ WARBIRDS
"KEEP 'EM FLYING"
www.vqwarbirds.com
[email protected]
If this will help I will be glad to post the photos of the 26cc combo...
_TOMAS
VQ WARBIRDS
"KEEP 'EM FLYING"
www.vqwarbirds.com
[email protected]
12-16-2009, 08:24 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
RC34074
I raised the engine on the firewall almost a quarter of an inch. The factory marks on the firewall are definitely misplaced.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
I raised the engine on the firewall almost a quarter of an inch. The factory marks on the firewall are definitely misplaced.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-16-2009, 08:27 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Nemesis4u,
I said at the outset that if anyone wanted to add to this thread that it would be welcomed. Your insights and opinions would be most welcomed here.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
I said at the outset that if anyone wanted to add to this thread that it would be welcomed. Your insights and opinions would be most welcomed here.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-17-2009, 10:39 AM
#20
RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
Please lend me your feedback as to my proposed setup for this plane!
Engine RCV 120 - Reason 2:1 Reduction to swing a four blade propeller. Compact design! Just picked up a NIB here on RCU!
Retracts, either Spring Air with 7/16" oleo struts or Stock ESM depending on feedback from you guys who have used their stuff. Maybe the time I get around to building the plane earlier next year Lado-Tech will have some retracts available for sale, preferably with a strut ready design!
What you think?
Already spending my Tax refund!
M
Engine RCV 120 - Reason 2:1 Reduction to swing a four blade propeller. Compact design! Just picked up a NIB here on RCU!
Retracts, either Spring Air with 7/16" oleo struts or Stock ESM depending on feedback from you guys who have used their stuff. Maybe the time I get around to building the plane earlier next year Lado-Tech will have some retracts available for sale, preferably with a strut ready design!
What you think?
Already spending my Tax refund!
M
12-17-2009, 11:10 AM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
mimoore67,
I would've gone with Spring-Airs or even the Robart Gear that is air up and spring down but for the price $139 I decided to try the ESM retracts. They look pretty good and the machining is well done. I have their gear on a Spitfire and it worked right out of the box. I would suggest talking with Tomas at "VQ-Warbirds" on this question. Everyone seems to have a different opinion but since he sells the ESM gear and the SIERRA gear he can better recommend than any of us.
As to the RCV 1.20, yes it is a great engine and I believe it was the original selection by YT (over in England) when the Spitfire first came out. Keep in mind that 4 blade props for models are at the bad end of efficiency. I tried that route and eventhough I had success, the performance was just not there. They look cool though and in this hobby, each one of us makes unique decisions for our own tastes and circumstances. If you decide to go with a 4 blade, keep us posted on what you think.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
I would've gone with Spring-Airs or even the Robart Gear that is air up and spring down but for the price $139 I decided to try the ESM retracts. They look pretty good and the machining is well done. I have their gear on a Spitfire and it worked right out of the box. I would suggest talking with Tomas at "VQ-Warbirds" on this question. Everyone seems to have a different opinion but since he sells the ESM gear and the SIERRA gear he can better recommend than any of us.
As to the RCV 1.20, yes it is a great engine and I believe it was the original selection by YT (over in England) when the Spitfire first came out. Keep in mind that 4 blade props for models are at the bad end of efficiency. I tried that route and eventhough I had success, the performance was just not there. They look cool though and in this hobby, each one of us makes unique decisions for our own tastes and circumstances. If you decide to go with a 4 blade, keep us posted on what you think.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-17-2009, 12:21 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
I am also in the process of assembly on this plane. I too, have found the plastic parts to be very brittle. The tubes in my fuse are, on the other hand, pretty good. Not too hard or brittle at all.
I have not drilled or mounted my engine (SV-26cc) as yet. I did make a template and marked the holes, but am hesitant to put the drill to it for some reason. Just double checked the marks and the factory marks on mine seem to be okay. I didn't use them as a reference as the method I use with the template centers a dowel in the cowl. I'll be checking the alignment again a few dozen times before I take the drill to it though.
I have not drilled or mounted my engine (SV-26cc) as yet. I did make a template and marked the holes, but am hesitant to put the drill to it for some reason. Just double checked the marks and the factory marks on mine seem to be okay. I didn't use them as a reference as the method I use with the template centers a dowel in the cowl. I'll be checking the alignment again a few dozen times before I take the drill to it though.
12-17-2009, 12:38 PM
#23
RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
ORIGINAL: Loopman
As to the RCV 1.20, yes it is a great engine and I believe it was the original selection by YT (over in England) when the Spitfire first came out. Keep in mind that 4 blade props for models are at the bad end of efficiency. I tried that route and even though I had success, the performance was just not there. They look cool though and in this hobby, each one of us makes unique decisions for our own tastes and circumstances. If you decide to go with a 4 blade, keep us posted on what you think.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
As to the RCV 1.20, yes it is a great engine and I believe it was the original selection by YT (over in England) when the Spitfire first came out. Keep in mind that 4 blade props for models are at the bad end of efficiency. I tried that route and even though I had success, the performance was just not there. They look cool though and in this hobby, each one of us makes unique decisions for our own tastes and circumstances. If you decide to go with a 4 blade, keep us posted on what you think.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
Okay, I hear what your saying! From all my reading on the the 2 Blade vs. 3 or 4 blade performance, I understood that it was the high rpm's that caused a the four blade prop to be inefficient, due to the fact the blade can't grab the air. Where as the RCV engines are geared 2:1, thus spinning slower!
What propeller brand were you using and size?
Interesting!
12-17-2009, 12:55 PM
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RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
mimoore67,
I was using a Zinger 18x5 four blade on a Brilelli 46cc gas engine. That size prop was recommended to me by Joe Zingalli at Zinger. I have to say, the sound was awesome but the performance just wasn't there.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
I was using a Zinger 18x5 four blade on a Brilelli 46cc gas engine. That size prop was recommended to me by Joe Zingalli at Zinger. I have to say, the sound was awesome but the performance just wasn't there.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
12-17-2009, 01:40 PM
#25
RE: ESM P-51B-Impressions
ORIGINAL: Loopman
mimoore67,
I was using a Zinger 18x5 four blade on a Brilelli 46cc gas engine. That size prop was recommended to me by Joe Zingalli at Zinger. I have to say, the sound was awesome but the performance just wasn't there.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
mimoore67,
I was using a Zinger 18x5 four blade on a Brilelli 46cc gas engine. That size prop was recommended to me by Joe Zingalli at Zinger. I have to say, the sound was awesome but the performance just wasn't there.
Happy Flying!
Loopman
Okay, I think we have a misunderstanding here! The Brilelli, is a two stroke engine (not that it matters)! It's the gear reductions that the RCV has, that makes swing a four blade prop a viable option in this case. Be it either a two-stroke or four-stroke, it's the rpm's that these engine turn at, between 9,000-12,000 that make multi-blade inefficient! The RCV are 2:1 gear down for greater torque and only turn up to 5-6,000 rpm's!
M
