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Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

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Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz

Old 09-17-2020, 03:02 AM
  #19026  
Ernie P.
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Morning clue. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?



1. During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.



2. These were planes intended to be produced, should supply lines be cut and certain “strategic materials”, normally essential to modern aircraft production, become unavailable.



3. By and large, these “Emergency Fighters” were simply taken to the “proof of concept” stage; and then forgotten until such time as they might be needed, should the war effort not go in their favor.



4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.



5. And this is the story of one such plane.



6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.



7. A wooden glider.



8. The glider was a very simple and straightforward design.



9. It was intended to be very easy to control.



10. The program was rushed so rapidly that the plane was being constructed even before the plans were finalized.



11. The first flight was performed even before the results of wind tunnel testing was completed.



12. The first flight seemed to confirm the glider was easy to control and quite stable.



13. Unfortunately, the second flight revealed some nasty problems with vibration as speed was increased.



14. So, the tail was reinforced and a second stabilizer was added.



15. Which seemed to correct the problems for the moment.



16. So, the decision was made to add engines into the mix.



17. Which didn’t work out very well.



18. It turned out the glider design, when engines were added, wasn’t as easy to control as had been hoped.



19. And, there were some problems with the engines, which were very inconsistent in flight.



20. So, the decision was made to change everything; redesign the plane for a new mission; and convert it from a glider to a fully powered aircraft.



21. A completely new design was created.



22. One that used four engines.



23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.



24. So, the design concentrated on producing a very maneuverable aircraft, but one that could be easily controlled.



25. Spoilers were to be used on each wing.



26. And, should the mechanism for controlling the spoilers be damaged in combat, they would automatically return to the closed position.



27. And, to ensure an easily controllable design, canards were to be utilized.



28. The operating temperature of the engines proved to be a concern.



29. Since time was of the essence, the simplest approach to the cooling problem was adopted.



30. Injectors which sprayed water and alcohol were to be utilized.



31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.



32. Alternate methods of takeoff and landing may have been considered, although exactly what they were isn’t completely clear.



33. One method that may have been considered was an air drop from a “mother ship”.



34. Towing the aircraft to altitude may have been another.



35. The cockpit area was to have been pressurized.



36. Although a “space suit” was also considered, should the pressurization of the cockpit area prove problematic or time consuming.



37. Armament was to be rockets.



38. So, we have a simple, easy to construct, wooden, easy to control glider design morphing into a high altitude four engine, rocket armed interceptor design featuring a dolly/skid takeoff and landing gear arrangement, along with full cockpit pressurization and/or a space suit for the crew. But, one that still had to be easy to control.



39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.



40. In fact, it was never quite clear whether the aircraft was to be used in a ground attack or interceptor role. Different groups had different plans for the plane.



41. But, the interceptor role would seem most logical.



42. Only five of the glider designs were completed before the whole project became a moot point.



43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.



44. In fact, events moved beyond the control of the authorities and designers very quickly.



45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.



46. Although how this plays into a pressurized cockpit and four engines escapes me.



47. Crew of one.



48. Length a bit less than 25 feet.



49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.



50. Less than six feet tall.
Old 09-17-2020, 01:32 PM
  #19027  
Ernie P.
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Clues; one for the afternoon and one for the evening. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?



1. During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.



2. These were planes intended to be produced, should supply lines be cut and certain “strategic materials”, normally essential to modern aircraft production, become unavailable.



3. By and large, these “Emergency Fighters” were simply taken to the “proof of concept” stage; and then forgotten until such time as they might be needed, should the war effort not go in their favor.



4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.



5. And this is the story of one such plane.



6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.



7. A wooden glider.



8. The glider was a very simple and straightforward design.



9. It was intended to be very easy to control.



10. The program was rushed so rapidly that the plane was being constructed even before the plans were finalized.



11. The first flight was performed even before the results of wind tunnel testing was completed.



12. The first flight seemed to confirm the glider was easy to control and quite stable.



13. Unfortunately, the second flight revealed some nasty problems with vibration as speed was increased.



14. So, the tail was reinforced and a second stabilizer was added.



15. Which seemed to correct the problems for the moment.



16. So, the decision was made to add engines into the mix.



17. Which didn’t work out very well.



18. It turned out the glider design, when engines were added, wasn’t as easy to control as had been hoped.



19. And, there were some problems with the engines, which were very inconsistent in flight.



20. So, the decision was made to change everything; redesign the plane for a new mission; and convert it from a glider to a fully powered aircraft.



21. A completely new design was created.



22. One that used four engines.



23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.



24. So, the design concentrated on producing a very maneuverable aircraft, but one that could be easily controlled.



25. Spoilers were to be used on each wing.



26. And, should the mechanism for controlling the spoilers be damaged in combat, they would automatically return to the closed position.



27. And, to ensure an easily controllable design, canards were to be utilized.



28. The operating temperature of the engines proved to be a concern.



29. Since time was of the essence, the simplest approach to the cooling problem was adopted.



30. Injectors which sprayed water and alcohol were to be utilized.



31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.



32. Alternate methods of takeoff and landing may have been considered, although exactly what they were isn’t completely clear.



33. One method that may have been considered was an air drop from a “mother ship”.



34. Towing the aircraft to altitude may have been another.



35. The cockpit area was to have been pressurized.



36. Although a “space suit” was also considered, should the pressurization of the cockpit area prove problematic or time consuming.



37. Armament was to be rockets.



38. So, we have a simple, easy to construct, wooden, easy to control glider design morphing into a high altitude four engine, rocket armed interceptor design featuring a dolly/skid takeoff and landing gear arrangement, along with full cockpit pressurization and/or a space suit for the crew. But, one that still had to be easy to control.



39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.



40. In fact, it was never quite clear whether the aircraft was to be used in a ground attack or interceptor role. Different groups had different plans for the plane.



41. But, the interceptor role would seem most logical.



42. Only five of the glider designs were completed before the whole project became a moot point.



43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.



44. In fact, events moved beyond the control of the authorities and designers very quickly.



45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.



46. Although how this plays into a pressurized cockpit and four engines escapes me.



47. Crew of one.



48. Length a bit less than 25 feet.



49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.



50. Less than six feet tall.



51. Maximum speed was to be 190 mph.



52. Cruise speed was to be less than 70 mph.
Old 09-18-2020, 05:26 AM
  #19028  
Ernie P.
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Today is going to be busy, so I'll drop the morning and afternoon clues now. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?



1. During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.



2. These were planes intended to be produced, should supply lines be cut and certain “strategic materials”, normally essential to modern aircraft production, become unavailable.



3. By and large, these “Emergency Fighters” were simply taken to the “proof of concept” stage; and then forgotten until such time as they might be needed, should the war effort not go in their favor.



4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.



5. And this is the story of one such plane.



6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.



7. A wooden glider.



8. The glider was a very simple and straightforward design.



9. It was intended to be very easy to control.



10. The program was rushed so rapidly that the plane was being constructed even before the plans were finalized.



11. The first flight was performed even before the results of wind tunnel testing was completed.



12. The first flight seemed to confirm the glider was easy to control and quite stable.



13. Unfortunately, the second flight revealed some nasty problems with vibration as speed was increased.



14. So, the tail was reinforced and a second stabilizer was added.



15. Which seemed to correct the problems for the moment.



16. So, the decision was made to add engines into the mix.



17. Which didn’t work out very well.



18. It turned out the glider design, when engines were added, wasn’t as easy to control as had been hoped.



19. And, there were some problems with the engines, which were very inconsistent in flight.



20. So, the decision was made to change everything; redesign the plane for a new mission; and convert it from a glider to a fully powered aircraft.



21. A completely new design was created.



22. One that used four engines.



23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.



24. So, the design concentrated on producing a very maneuverable aircraft, but one that could be easily controlled.



25. Spoilers were to be used on each wing.



26. And, should the mechanism for controlling the spoilers be damaged in combat, they would automatically return to the closed position.



27. And, to ensure an easily controllable design, canards were to be utilized.



28. The operating temperature of the engines proved to be a concern.



29. Since time was of the essence, the simplest approach to the cooling problem was adopted.



30. Injectors which sprayed water and alcohol were to be utilized.



31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.



32. Alternate methods of takeoff and landing may have been considered, although exactly what they were isn’t completely clear.



33. One method that may have been considered was an air drop from a “mother ship”.



34. Towing the aircraft to altitude may have been another.



35. The cockpit area was to have been pressurized.



36. Although a “space suit” was also considered, should the pressurization of the cockpit area prove problematic or time consuming.



37. Armament was to be rockets.



38. So, we have a simple, easy to construct, wooden, easy to control glider design morphing into a high altitude four engine, rocket armed interceptor design featuring a dolly/skid takeoff and landing gear arrangement, along with full cockpit pressurization and/or a space suit for the crew. But, one that still had to be easy to control.



39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.



40. In fact, it was never quite clear whether the aircraft was to be used in a ground attack or interceptor role. Different groups had different plans for the plane.



41. But, the interceptor role would seem most logical.



42. Only five of the glider designs were completed before the whole project became a moot point.



43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.



44. In fact, events moved beyond the control of the authorities and designers very quickly.



45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.



46. Although how this plays into a pressurized cockpit and four engines escapes me.



47. Crew of one.



48. Length a bit less than 25 feet.



49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.



50. Less than six feet tall.



51. Maximum speed was to be 190 mph.



52. Cruise speed was to be less than 70 mph.



53. Range was to be less than three (3) miles; although that seems to possibly be bad information.



54. Armament was to be eight (8) unguided rockets.
Old 09-18-2020, 05:33 AM
  #19029  
Hydro Junkie
 
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Okay Ernie, now I'm really stumped. A three mile range tells me it's rocket powered while pressurized says it's German, British or American since no one else could do that until the Russians reverse engineered the B-29. The slow speed, however, tells me it's a WWI era design, throwing everything I already typed out the window.
I was starting to think Okah(if I spelled it right) until I realized it only had one or two engines, no other weapons and was designed to be a one way flight, that being down and into the deck of an enemy ship.

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 09-18-2020 at 05:44 AM.
Old 09-18-2020, 05:54 AM
  #19030  
Ernie P.
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Okay Ernie, now I'm really stumped. A three mile range tells me it's rocket powered while pressurized says it's German, British or American since no one else could do that until the Russians reverse engineered the B-29. The slow speed, however, tells me it's a WWI era design, throwing everything I already typed out the window.
Well, obviously there has to be another answer; although I will admit the seemingly contradictory clues may appear to be a bit confusing. I myself have difficulty understanding how the cockpit of a wooden aircraft was supposed to be pressurized. But don't forget: The people designing this aircraft, and the people laying out the requirements for it, may have been a bit confused themselves; in addition to being rushed, harried and harassed. And please remember: The first five clues are very important; as are clues (38) and (39). Perhaps another clue will help. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?



1. During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.



2. These were planes intended to be produced, should supply lines be cut and certain “strategic materials”, normally essential to modern aircraft production, become unavailable.



3. By and large, these “Emergency Fighters” were simply taken to the “proof of concept” stage; and then forgotten until such time as they might be needed, should the war effort not go in their favor.



4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.



5. And this is the story of one such plane.



6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.



7. A wooden glider.



8. The glider was a very simple and straightforward design.



9. It was intended to be very easy to control.



10. The program was rushed so rapidly that the plane was being constructed even before the plans were finalized.



11. The first flight was performed even before the results of wind tunnel testing was completed.



12. The first flight seemed to confirm the glider was easy to control and quite stable.



13. Unfortunately, the second flight revealed some nasty problems with vibration as speed was increased.



14. So, the tail was reinforced and a second stabilizer was added.



15. Which seemed to correct the problems for the moment.



16. So, the decision was made to add engines into the mix.



17. Which didn’t work out very well.



18. It turned out the glider design, when engines were added, wasn’t as easy to control as had been hoped.



19. And, there were some problems with the engines, which were very inconsistent in flight.



20. So, the decision was made to change everything; redesign the plane for a new mission; and convert it from a glider to a fully powered aircraft.



21. A completely new design was created.



22. One that used four engines.



23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.



24. So, the design concentrated on producing a very maneuverable aircraft, but one that could be easily controlled.



25. Spoilers were to be used on each wing.



26. And, should the mechanism for controlling the spoilers be damaged in combat, they would automatically return to the closed position.



27. And, to ensure an easily controllable design, canards were to be utilized.



28. The operating temperature of the engines proved to be a concern.



29. Since time was of the essence, the simplest approach to the cooling problem was adopted.



30. Injectors which sprayed water and alcohol were to be utilized.



31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.



32. Alternate methods of takeoff and landing may have been considered, although exactly what they were isn’t completely clear.



33. One method that may have been considered was an air drop from a “mother ship”.



34. Towing the aircraft to altitude may have been another.



35. The cockpit area was to have been pressurized.



36. Although a “space suit” was also considered, should the pressurization of the cockpit area prove problematic or time consuming.



37. Armament was to be rockets.



38. So, we have a simple, easy to construct, wooden, easy to control glider design morphing into a high altitude four engine, rocket armed interceptor design featuring a dolly/skid takeoff and landing gear arrangement, along with full cockpit pressurization and/or a space suit for the crew. But, one that still had to be easy to control.



39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.



40. In fact, it was never quite clear whether the aircraft was to be used in a ground attack or interceptor role. Different groups had different plans for the plane.



41. But, the interceptor role would seem most logical.



42. Only five of the glider designs were completed before the whole project became a moot point.



43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.



44. In fact, events moved beyond the control of the authorities and designers very quickly.



45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.



46. Although how this plays into a pressurized cockpit and four engines escapes me.



47. Crew of one.



48. Length a bit less than 25 feet.



49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.



50. Less than six feet tall.



51. Maximum speed was to be 190 mph.



52. Cruise speed was to be less than 70 mph.



53. Range was to be less than three (3) miles; although that seems to possibly be bad information.



54. Armament was to be eight (8) unguided rockets.



55. And an explosive warhead.

Old 09-18-2020, 06:16 PM
  #19031  
Ernie P.
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Guys; tomorrow is going to be very busy, so I'm posting the Saturday clue this evening; to make sure I get it posted. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?



1. During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.



2. These were planes intended to be produced, should supply lines be cut and certain “strategic materials”, normally essential to modern aircraft production, become unavailable.



3. By and large, these “Emergency Fighters” were simply taken to the “proof of concept” stage; and then forgotten until such time as they might be needed, should the war effort not go in their favor.



4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.



5. And this is the story of one such plane.



6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.



7. A wooden glider.



8. The glider was a very simple and straightforward design.



9. It was intended to be very easy to control.



10. The program was rushed so rapidly that the plane was being constructed even before the plans were finalized.



11. The first flight was performed even before the results of wind tunnel testing was completed.



12. The first flight seemed to confirm the glider was easy to control and quite stable.



13. Unfortunately, the second flight revealed some nasty problems with vibration as speed was increased.



14. So, the tail was reinforced and a second stabilizer was added.



15. Which seemed to correct the problems for the moment.



16. So, the decision was made to add engines into the mix.



17. Which didn’t work out very well.



18. It turned out the glider design, when engines were added, wasn’t as easy to control as had been hoped.



19. And, there were some problems with the engines, which were very inconsistent in flight.



20. So, the decision was made to change everything; redesign the plane for a new mission; and convert it from a glider to a fully powered aircraft.



21. A completely new design was created.



22. One that used four engines.



23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.



24. So, the design concentrated on producing a very maneuverable aircraft, but one that could be easily controlled.



25. Spoilers were to be used on each wing.



26. And, should the mechanism for controlling the spoilers be damaged in combat, they would automatically return to the closed position.



27. And, to ensure an easily controllable design, canards were to be utilized.



28. The operating temperature of the engines proved to be a concern.



29. Since time was of the essence, the simplest approach to the cooling problem was adopted.



30. Injectors which sprayed water and alcohol were to be utilized.



31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.



32. Alternate methods of takeoff and landing may have been considered, although exactly what they were isn’t completely clear.



33. One method that may have been considered was an air drop from a “mother ship”.



34. Towing the aircraft to altitude may have been another.



35. The cockpit area was to have been pressurized.



36. Although a “space suit” was also considered, should the pressurization of the cockpit area prove problematic or time consuming.



37. Armament was to be rockets.



38. So, we have a simple, easy to construct, wooden, easy to control glider design morphing into a high altitude four engine, rocket armed interceptor design featuring a dolly/skid takeoff and landing gear arrangement, along with full cockpit pressurization and/or a space suit for the crew. But, one that still had to be easy to control.



39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.



40. In fact, it was never quite clear whether the aircraft was to be used in a ground attack or interceptor role. Different groups had different plans for the plane.



41. But, the interceptor role would seem most logical.



42. Only five of the glider designs were completed before the whole project became a moot point.



43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.



44. In fact, events moved beyond the control of the authorities and designers very quickly.



45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.



46. Although how this plays into a pressurized cockpit and four engines escapes me.



47. Crew of one.



48. Length a bit less than 25 feet.



49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.



50. Less than six feet tall.



51. Maximum speed was to be 190 mph.



52. Cruise speed was to be less than 70 mph.



53. Range was to be less than three (3) miles; although that seems to possibly be bad information.



54. Armament was to be eight (8) unguided rockets.



55. And an explosive warhead.



56. The explosive warhead(s?) was to be adapted from standard artillery shells.
Old 09-20-2020, 07:21 AM
  #19032  
Ernie P.
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Sunday clue. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?



1. During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.



2. These were planes intended to be produced, should supply lines be cut and certain “strategic materials”, normally essential to modern aircraft production, become unavailable.



3. By and large, these “Emergency Fighters” were simply taken to the “proof of concept” stage; and then forgotten until such time as they might be needed, should the war effort not go in their favor.



4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.



5. And this is the story of one such plane.



6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.



7. A wooden glider.



8. The glider was a very simple and straightforward design.



9. It was intended to be very easy to control.



10. The program was rushed so rapidly that the plane was being constructed even before the plans were finalized.



11. The first flight was performed even before the results of wind tunnel testing was completed.



12. The first flight seemed to confirm the glider was easy to control and quite stable.



13. Unfortunately, the second flight revealed some nasty problems with vibration as speed was increased.



14. So, the tail was reinforced and a second stabilizer was added.



15. Which seemed to correct the problems for the moment.



16. So, the decision was made to add engines into the mix.



17. Which didn’t work out very well.



18. It turned out the glider design, when engines were added, wasn’t as easy to control as had been hoped.



19. And, there were some problems with the engines, which were very inconsistent in flight.



20. So, the decision was made to change everything; redesign the plane for a new mission; and convert it from a glider to a fully powered aircraft.



21. A completely new design was created.



22. One that used four engines.



23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.



24. So, the design concentrated on producing a very maneuverable aircraft, but one that could be easily controlled.



25. Spoilers were to be used on each wing.



26. And, should the mechanism for controlling the spoilers be damaged in combat, they would automatically return to the closed position.



27. And, to ensure an easily controllable design, canards were to be utilized.



28. The operating temperature of the engines proved to be a concern.



29. Since time was of the essence, the simplest approach to the cooling problem was adopted.



30. Injectors which sprayed water and alcohol were to be utilized.



31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.



32. Alternate methods of takeoff and landing may have been considered, although exactly what they were isn’t completely clear.



33. One method that may have been considered was an air drop from a “mother ship”.



34. Towing the aircraft to altitude may have been another.



35. The cockpit area was to have been pressurized.



36. Although a “space suit” was also considered, should the pressurization of the cockpit area prove problematic or time consuming.



37. Armament was to be rockets.



38. So, we have a simple, easy to construct, wooden, easy to control glider design morphing into a high altitude four engine, rocket armed interceptor design featuring a dolly/skid takeoff and landing gear arrangement, along with full cockpit pressurization and/or a space suit for the crew. But, one that still had to be easy to control.



39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.



40. In fact, it was never quite clear whether the aircraft was to be used in a ground attack or interceptor role. Different groups had different plans for the plane.



41. But, the interceptor role would seem most logical.



42. Only five of the glider designs were completed before the whole project became a moot point.



43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.



44. In fact, events moved beyond the control of the authorities and designers very quickly.



45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.



46. Although how this plays into a pressurized cockpit and four engines escapes me.



47. Crew of one.



48. Length a bit less than 25 feet.



49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.



50. Less than six feet tall.



51. Maximum speed was to be 190 mph.



52. Cruise speed was to be less than 70 mph.



53. Range was to be less than three (3) miles; although that seems to possibly be bad information.



54. Armament was to be eight (8) unguided rockets.



55. And an explosive warhead.



56. The explosive warhead was to be adapted from standard artillery shells.



57. And it would have a contact fuse.
Old 09-20-2020, 08:28 AM
  #19033  
Top_Gunn
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This quiz must have set a new record for number of clues.

I'm pretty sure it's the Mizuno Shinryu. I'd like to claim that this answer comes from my extensive knowledge of obscure and unproduced aircraft, but that wouldn't be entirely true. Or even a little bit true. Fortunately, in a world with internet searching, it's no longer necessary to know much of anything. Having found it at last, I'm surprised it took so long; the problem was probably that searches for rocket-powered aircraft tend turn up planes that made it at least to the prototype stage. Good thing Ernie mentioned the canards and spoilers.
Old 09-20-2020, 10:32 AM
  #19034  
Ernie P.
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
This quiz must have set a new record for number of clues.

I'm pretty sure it's the Mizuno Shinryu. I'd like to claim that this answer comes from my extensive knowledge of obscure and unproduced aircraft, but that wouldn't be entirely true. Or even a little bit true. Fortunately, in a world with internet searching, it's no longer necessary to know much of anything. Having found it at last, I'm surprised it took so long; the problem was probably that searches for rocket-powered aircraft tend turn up planes that made it at least to the prototype stage. Good thing Ernie mentioned the canards and spoilers.
You got it, Al. And, you're now up. Congratulations and well done! Once I highlight a couple of things, I think you'll agree I put out some very telling clues at several points; clues that were possibly overlooked. Thanks; Ernie P.

Telling clues:

(1) During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.
Explanation: Look in the list of "Emergency Fighters" on Wikipedia. There aren't very many of them, and the Shinryu is right there on the list. I kept telling you the first five clues were key!

4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.
Explanation: "intended" to be put into production. As in "wasn't actually put into production".

6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.
Explanation: Simple enough. A lot of glider in this design.

23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.
Explanation: Half trained or inadequately trained pilots need a plane that is easy to control. What country(s) were most likely to use poorly trained pilots? I highlighted this several times.

31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.
Explanation: Very few planes used this arrangement.

39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.
Explanation: Only Germany and Japan were ever in a position that required such drastic attempts to level the field.

43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.
Explanation: Simple enough.

45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.
Explanation: Japanese factories had been destroyed; leaving only very small, one room businesses as a source of supply. And Japan had already lost any ability to import anything. So, wood was to be used.

49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.
Explanation: In other words "tiny". Or maybe "throw away or one use".

57.
And it would have a contact fuse.
Explanation: "Contact". As in "Kamikaze".

Summary
Following any one of these clues should have led you right to the Shinryu. EP



What warbird do I describe?



1. During WWII, a number of nations explored, designed, tested and perhaps constructed a variety of “Emergency Fighters”.



2. These were planes intended to be produced, should supply lines be cut and certain “strategic materials”, normally essential to modern aircraft production, become unavailable.



3. By and large, these “Emergency Fighters” were simply taken to the “proof of concept” stage; and then forgotten until such time as they might be needed, should the war effort not go in their favor.



4. However, a number of these planes were seriously considered, and intended to be put into mass production.



5. And this is the story of one such plane.



6. Strangely enough, this project started as a design for a glider.



7. A wooden glider.



8. The glider was a very simple and straightforward design.



9. It was intended to be very easy to control.



10. The program was rushed so rapidly that the plane was being constructed even before the plans were finalized.



11. The first flight was performed even before the results of wind tunnel testing was completed.



12. The first flight seemed to confirm the glider was easy to control and quite stable.



13. Unfortunately, the second flight revealed some nasty problems with vibration as speed was increased.



14. So, the tail was reinforced and a second stabilizer was added.



15. Which seemed to correct the problems for the moment.



16. So, the decision was made to add engines into the mix.



17. Which didn’t work out very well.



18. It turned out the glider design, when engines were added, wasn’t as easy to control as had been hoped.



19. And, there were some problems with the engines, which were very inconsistent in flight.



20. So, the decision was made to change everything; redesign the plane for a new mission; and convert it from a glider to a fully powered aircraft.



21. A completely new design was created.



22. One that used four engines.



23. But the requirement for an easy to control aircraft was still paramount.



24. So, the design concentrated on producing a very maneuverable aircraft, but one that could be easily controlled.



25. Spoilers were to be used on each wing.



26. And, should the mechanism for controlling the spoilers be damaged in combat, they would automatically return to the closed position.



27. And, to ensure an easily controllable design, canards were to be utilized.



28. The operating temperature of the engines proved to be a concern.



29. Since time was of the essence, the simplest approach to the cooling problem was adopted.



30. Injectors which sprayed water and alcohol were to be utilized.



31. Rather than bothering with landing gear, with all the attendant problems and weight, a dolly and skid arrangement was to be used.



32. Alternate methods of takeoff and landing may have been considered, although exactly what they were isn’t completely clear.



33. One method that may have been considered was an air drop from a “mother ship”.



34. Towing the aircraft to altitude may have been another.



35. The cockpit area was to have been pressurized.



36. Although a “space suit” was also considered, should the pressurization of the cockpit area prove problematic or time consuming.



37. Armament was to be rockets.



38. So, we have a simple, easy to construct, wooden, easy to control glider design morphing into a high altitude four engine, rocket armed interceptor design featuring a dolly/skid takeoff and landing gear arrangement, along with full cockpit pressurization and/or a space suit for the crew. But, one that still had to be easy to control.



39. But, such things happen when an attempt in made to design a new aircraft, with constantly changing requirements, over the space of a few months.



40. In fact, it was never quite clear whether the aircraft was to be used in a ground attack or interceptor role. Different groups had different plans for the plane.



41. But, the interceptor role would seem most logical.



42. Only five of the glider designs were completed before the whole project became a moot point.



43. And none of the final design were actually produced, even in prototype.



44. In fact, events moved beyond the control of the authorities and designers very quickly.



45. The original intent was to design an aircraft that could be built by a small woodworking business, using only woodworking tools.



46. Although how this plays into a pressurized cockpit and four engines escapes me.



47. Crew of one.



48. Length a bit less than 25 feet.



49. Wingspan was right on 23 feet.



50. Less than six feet tall.



51. Maximum speed was to be 190 mph.



52. Cruise speed was to be less than 70 mph.



53. Range was to be less than three (3) miles; although that seems to possibly be bad information.



54. Armament was to be eight (8) unguided rockets.



55. And an explosive warhead.



56. The explosive warhead was to be adapted from standard artillery shells.



57. And it would have a contact fuse.

















Answer: Mizuno Shinryū/Jinryū (神龍, "Divine Dragon")



The Mizuno Shinryū/Jinryū (神龍, "Divine Dragon") was a late-World War II Japanese rocket-powered interceptor. While the Jinryū was still in development, Mizuno began to develop an Interceptor which both the Army and Navy air force were in desperate need of to fend off the Boeing B-29 Superfortress. When Japan surrendered to the Allies on 15 August 1945, all aircraft that were under development were stopped, including the Jinryū & Shinryū II. The Shinryū II was the second aircraft developed in Japan to use a canard design, after the J7W1.

Development



In June 1944, the first Boeing B-29 Superfortresses appeared over Japan. It was the start of bombing campaign that would see key Japanese cities, infrastructure and industries reduced to ashes through conventional and firebombing raids. With the aircraft industry being a priority target, the Imperial Japanese Navy Aviation Bureau (海軍航空本部, Kaigun Koku Hombu) looked to ways to combat the B-29 menace. One concept was a point defence interceptor that could quickly rise to meet the bombers and so the Mizuno Shinryū was born. However, the development of the Shinryū began with designs for a far more conventional craft.



In November 1944, the Navy Aviation Bureau looked into the possibilities of an aircraft to undertake suicide missions (神風, shinpu). While the mission was not unique, the fact that the aircraft being investigated would be a glider was. The Bureau envisioned that gliders would be launched with rocket boosters from caves or shore positions and pilots would guide the aircraft and the 100 kg (220 Ib) explosive payload inside it into Allied ships or tanks should the Japanese home islands be invaded. The Bureau assigned the Yokosuka Naval Air Technical Arsenal (海軍航空技術廠, Kaigun Kōkū Gijutsu-shō) at Yokosuka the task of turning the glider into reality. The project was led by Shigeki Sakakibara who staffed a number of teams that would each be responsible for one part of the glider. The different sections were the wings, the fuselage, control surfaces, aerodynamic testing and test flights once the prototype was complete. The Navy Aviation Bureau gave instructions that the glider must be built from as much wood as possible.



This restriction was imposed for two reasons. The first was that in using wood and keeping the use of metal to an absolute minimum, the glider could be manufactured in any small shop using only wood working tools, and secondly, as a consequence, what metals were available would be conserved for other military uses. Much of the glider's design was conceived by Yoshio Akita. A number of concepts were discussed and sketched and after much deliberation among Akita and his teams the design was complete by May 1945, and the Mizuno Corporation, a small glider manufacturer better known for sports equipment, had almost finished the prototype.



The glider was very simple and used a high-wing monoplane form. The straight and flat wings were wide but had a short span and were designed to ensure that the glider was easy to handle given that inexperienced pilots would be at the controls. Also, the platform would be able to accommodate the rocket engines that were to be used to boost the glider into the air. The pilot sat in an open cockpit. The design was sent to the Navy Aviation Bureau for review. Sakakibara studied the plans and projections and after his analysis it was felt the glider was flawed and changes were necessary.



After these had been made the design was approved. Work began on the revised Jinryū, as the glider was now called, by the middle of June 1945. To hasten the construction, the finalised blueprints and work plans for the Jinryū were drawn up even as the components for the first prototype were being built. Construction of the Jinryū was again given to Mizuno. Working around the clock, the company completed two prototypes with such speed that wind tunnel testing of the design was still underway. In fact, the first flight of the Jinryū occurred even before the results of the testing had been provided to Tonsho and Sakakibara. Tashiichi Narabayashi was the pilot who flew the maiden flight in mid-July 1945 at the airfield in Ishioka, a city located in Ibaraki Prefecture, about 90 km (56 miles) northeast of Tokyo. The Jinryū was towed into the air by a Tachikawa Ki-9, piloted by Saburo Fujikura, a man known for his skill in flying gliders prior to the beginning of the war.



For the first test, Narabayashi assessed the Jinryū'shandling. On landing, his opinion was that the glider was stable and possessed good handling characteristics. For the second flight Narabayashi would investigate the Jinryū's diving capability and after a few bounces on the ground the Ki-9 and the Jinryū took off. At a height of 2,300m (7,545 ft), Narabayashi went to cast off from the Ki-9 but found that the tow rope release had stuck; however, he was able to cut the rope and proceed with the test flight. When Narabayashi put the Jinryū into a dive and had reached 300 km/h (186 mph), the glider began to vibrate to such a degree that he was unable to read the gauges. Pulling the nose up to bleed off speed, Narabayashi discovered that the vibrations ceased. During his descent Narabayashi examined the vibrations and after landing the issue was reviewed. The conclusion was that the tail was not sufficiently reinforced and the vertical stabiliser was too small.



The Jinryū was modified by adding some strengthening in the tail and the fitting a second stabiliser. The changes were later validated both in the air and in the wind tunnel testing of the modified Jinryū model. Before flying the Jinryū, Narabayashi had suspected that the aircraft would have stability problems which, as was seen, proved to be the case. With the handling and flight characteristics of the Jinryū proven, the testing moved to the next phase - that of-powered flight. The glider was relocated to an airfield in Kasumigaura, about 19 km (12 miles) north of Ishioka. Here, the Jinryū was modified to accept a group of three Toku-Ro I Type I rocket engines that together would produce 661 Ib of thrust during a 10-second burn.



Testing of the rocket array showed two serious flaws. The first was the quality of the rockets that resulted in a number of failures. The second was the inconsistency of the burn times. Narabayashi noted his concerns and forwarded them to Major Suganuma who had been placed in charge of the Jinryū project. In addition to expressing his doubts about the rocket engines, he also stated that the Jinryū would be unsuited for shinpu missions because, despite the changes made to the glider to improve the flight characteristics, it was a challenging aircraft to fly. Narabayashi suggested that instead of being used for shinpu operations, the glider should be modified to take six rocket engines each with a 30-second burn time. He estimated that at maximum burn the Jinryū could attain a speed of 750 km/h (466 mph), and for weapons he envisioned that it could carry ten explosive charges adapted from artillery shells used by the IJA in their 100mm guns (likely the Type 92). Not only did Narabayashi agree that the Jinryū could be used against tanks and ships but added that it could also be used to attack US B-29 bombers.



Despite the issues with the rockets work continued on preparing the Jinryū for powered flight. Major Suganuma, however, would become the catalyst for the Shinryū II's[a] continued development. Taking Narabayashi's concerns on board, Suganuma formed a team to revise the Jinryū and produce a design for an interceptor rather than a glider; Suganuma was especially interested in this idea since he had access to rocket engines that promised 32 second burn times. Two people were retained from the Jinryū project: Sakakibara, the lead designer, and Yoshio Tonsho who would oversee the construction of the prototype. Yujiro Murakami was tasked with the aerodynamic testing of the Shinryū II. All of those assigned to develop the Shinryū II were ordered by Suganuma to maintain the utmost secrecy. Unlike the Jinryū, the Shinryū II was to be built from the outset as an interceptor. Sakakibara would use a canard design that made this the second Japanese aircraft to be developed during the war with such a feature (the first was the Kyushu J7W Shinden). In addition, the main wings had a platform similar to a cropped delta. These design features were included as a means of ensuring stability in flight as well as good handling characteristics. Since the average Japanese pilot had little experience with canard equipped aircraft, the Shinryū II had spoilers fitted into the top of each main wing. Each spoiler was able to rotate between 60 degrees and 90 degrees and if the mechanism for controlling the spoilers was damaged, they would automatically return to the closed position. The pilot was provided with an enclosed cockpit. For power, the Shinryū II was to use four Toku-Ro I Type 2 rocket engines located in the rear of the fuselage. Each engine provided a 30-second burn time and all together up to 600 kg (1,322lb) of thrust could be delivered. Two rockets would be used to get the Shinryū II airborne while the other two engines would be used when making the attack. There was a concern regarding the operating temperatures of the Toku Ro rockets and two methods of cooling the engines were considered. The first would have utilised an air-cooled combustion chamber that would have required an air inlet using a bayonet mechanism in order to maintain air flow across the chamber. It also would have required specific positioning of the fuel injectors so as not to have the air flow disrupt the injection process. The second method would use injectors which sprayed a water and alcohol mixture onto the rocket nozzle, cooling it.

------

In reviewing the two solutions for cooling, it was determined that the water/alcohol system would be the simplest to implement. No provision was made for a wheeled landing gear system and skids were used. A nose skid was provided with a basic spring suspension to absorb the landing forces. Under each wing was a non-sprung skid arrangement supported by two struts. For take-off the Shinryū II was to use two wheeled dolly similar to the one used by the Mitsubishi J8M Shūsui . Once airborne the pilot could jettison the dolly. In addition to conventional runway take-off procedures, other methods for launching the Shinryū II were considered but what exactly these were is not known. It can be speculated that towing the Shinryū II aloft was one consideration. Another may have been air dropping the Shinryū II in the same manner as the Kūgishō MXY7 Ōka. In both cases this may have preserved two of the rocket engines which would have been used up had the Shinryū II taken off from the ground. In order to combat the B-29, which could operate at altitudes up to 10,241m (33,600 ft), the Shinryū II was to be equipped with a pressurised cockpit or, if such a cockpit proved problematic, the pilot would wear a pressure suit.



For weapons, the Shinryū II was to be armed with eight rockets. Attached to the inside of the rear landing skid arrangement were four tubes, one on top of the other and angled downwards, which contained the rockets. There has been some conjecture as to the mission objective of the Shinryū II. Some sources make the case that the Shinryū II was to be used like the MXY7 while others come to the conclusion that the Shinryū II was to attack armoured ground targets such as tanks. In both cases these sources state that the nose of the Shinryū II contained an impact fused explosive warhead and once the rocket armament was expended, the pilot would crash the aircraft into his final target using the warhead to deliver the coup de grâce. However, analysis of the Shinryū II shows that neither mission was likely. The aircraft would have been far more complex to build than the Toka or Ōka and the Shinryū II was constructed for maneuverability, high altitude operation and the means to land. In addition, using the Shinryū II for shinpu missions against tanks makes little sense when there were other simpler and more effective means (both already in service and under development) to eliminate armour.



Perhaps this is a case of the Jinryū glider's role being applied to the Shinryū II, or an assumption based on the fact that, like the IJN's other special attack aircraft such as the Kikka, Baika and Toka, the Shinryū II possessed no letter/numerical designation. So, by extension, the Shinryū II must also have been a special attack weapon. This, of course, is not to say that the pilot could not choose to use the Shinryū II as a shinpu aircraft. As an interceptor, the Shinryū II had a similar role to the Mitsubishi J8M Shūsui and the German Bachem Ba 349 Natter, which the Japanese were aware of and obtained data on (although the plans never made it to Japan). Like the J8M and Ba349, and due to the limited range afforded by the rocket engines, the Shinryū II would have to be positioned close to targets that were likely to be bombed. And like the J8M, the Shinryū II would have used a jettisonable wheeled dolly to take-off while firing a pair of its rocket engines. Unlike the J8M which burned up all of its fuel at once, the Shinryū II had a second set of rocket engines which could be used to sustain flight endurance or to increase speed during the attack. In the same way as the Ba349, the Shinryū II would be armed with rocket projectiles, likely fired as a group to affect a spread pattern, to bring down the bomber target. Finally, akin to the J8M, once the fuel and ammunition were expended, the Shinryū II would glide back to its base to be recovered, refueled and rearmed.



The Shinryū II would never be built because the end of the hostilities in August 1945 terminated any further work on the design. Likewise, the Jinryū glider would never fly under power. After the failure of the rocket motors during ground tests, the war came to a close before more suitable and reliable motors could be acquired and tested. Mizuno completed a total of five Jinryū gliders.

Variants

Mizuno Jinryū "Divine Dragon"[a]

Special attack aircraft. Mizuno's only (known) plane to be ordered into production. 5 glider prototypes produced.

Mizuno Shinryū II "Divine Dragon"

Rocket Interceptor with 4 rocket pods stacked on each over under each wing. Designed to intercept the B-29 Superfortress in a similar fashion to the Bachem Ba 349. None built.

Specifications



Data from Japanese Secret Projects Experimental Aircraft Of The UJN And UJN 1939-1945



General characteristics

· Crew: 1

· Length: 7.6 m (24 ft 11 in)

· Wingspan: 7 m (23 ft 0 in)

· Height: 1.8 m (5 ft 11 in)

· Wing area: 11 m2 (120 sq ft)

· Powerplant: 4 × Toku-Ro I Type II solid-fuel rockets, 1.5 kN (340 lbf) thrust each

Performance

· Maximum speed: 300 km/h (190 mph, 160 kn)

· Cruise speed: 110 km/h (68 mph, 59 kn)

· Range: 4.0 km (2.5 mi, 2.2 nmi)

· Service ceiling: 400 m (1,300 ft)

Armament

· Rockets: 8 x Unguided Rockets.

· Bombs: 1 × 100kg (220 lb) Explosive Warhead.

· Charges: 10 × Charges adapted from 100mm artillery gun shells (likely the Type92).

· Guns: 4 × 30 mm Type 5 cannon (Although suggested, there is no evidence that supports this).

Last edited by Ernie P.; 09-20-2020 at 10:35 AM.
Old 09-20-2020, 10:57 AM
  #19035  
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Good job Al! I know for one I was stumped!
Old 09-20-2020, 11:12 AM
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Somehow I got too focused on Germany and Russia this time around. Anyway, I'll try to get something going by tomorrow, though it may be a little late as it will be a busy day. Anyway, we probably need to rest a bit after that one: perhaps the most obscure airplane to feature in one of these quizzes.
Old 09-21-2020, 06:03 AM
  #19037  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
Somehow I got too focused on Germany and Russia this time around. Anyway, I'll try to get something going by tomorrow, though it may be a little late as it will be a busy day. Anyway, we probably need to rest a bit after that one: perhaps the most obscure airplane to feature in one of these quizzes.
Al; obscure is probably why I chose it. I came across it while reading about emergency fighters a year or so ago; and put it on my list of possible subjects. After reading about it, it seemed like a real oddball design; so I used it. It was an interesting design. Thanks; Ernie P.
Old 09-21-2020, 11:10 AM
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I was thinking the Ki-202 myself. Guess I was way off on that one
Old 09-21-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ernie P. View Post
Al; obscure is probably why I chose it. I came across it while reading about emergency fighters a year or so ago; and put it on my list of possible subjects. After reading about it, it seemed like a real oddball design; so I used it. It was an interesting design. Thanks; Ernie P.
That was an interesting quiz and I learned a lot. I certainly don't object to obscure subjects, but they do sometimes tire my aging brain. This quiz should be easier and somewhat shorter. We haven't had a name-the-pilot quiz for a while, so it's a change of pace of a sort. I don't think he's been the subject of a quiz here, although his name has come up as a wrong answer.

Looking for the name of a well-known pilot.

1. An ace, with a very respectable score but not, I think, number one on any strictly numerical list.

2. Very well known, in part perhaps because the authorities encouraged the publicizing of his successes to improve morale.

Old 09-21-2020, 02:17 PM
  #19040  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
That was an interesting quiz and I learned a lot. I certainly don't object to obscure subjects, but they do sometimes tire my aging brain. This quiz should be easier and somewhat shorter. We haven't had a name-the-pilot quiz for a while, so it's a change of pace of a sort. I don't think he's been the subject of a quiz here, although his name has come up as a wrong answer.

Looking for the name of a well-known pilot.

1. An ace, with a very respectable score but not, I think, number one on any strictly numerical list.

2. Very well known, in part perhaps because the authorities encouraged the publicizing of his successes to improve morale.
Al; how about Albert Ball? Thanks; Ernie P.


Albert Ball, VC, DSO & Two Bars, MC (14 August 1896 – 7 May 1917) was an English fighter pilot during the First World War. At the time of his death he was the United Kingdom's leading flying ace, with 44 victories, and remained its fourth-highest scorer behind Edward Mannock, James McCudden, and George McElroy.


Born and raised in Nottingham, Ball joined the Sherwood Foresters at the outbreak of the First World War and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in October 1914. He transferred to the Royal Flying Corps (RFC) the following year, and gained his pilot's wings on 26 January 1916. Joining No. 13 Squadron RFC in France, he flew reconnaissance missions before being posted in May to No. 11 Squadron, a fighter unit. From then until his return to England on leave in October, he accrued many aerial victories, earning two Distinguished Service Orders and the Military Cross. He was the first ace to become a British national hero.


After a period on home establishment, Ball was posted to No. 56 Squadron, which deployed to the Western Front in April 1917. He crashed to his death in a field in France on 7 May, sparking a wave of national mourning and posthumous recognition, which included the award of the Victoria Cross for his actions during his final tour of duty. The famous German flying ace Manfred von Richthofen, remarked upon hearing of Ball's death that he was "by far the best English flying man".
Old 09-21-2020, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I was thinking the Ki-202 myself. Guess I was way off on that one
Not really; the Ki-202 fit a lot of the earlier clues. Thanks; Ernie P.
Old 09-22-2020, 04:16 AM
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Ball fits the clues, but he's not the pilot I'm looking for. Here are today's clue and a bonus clue.

Looking for the name of a well-known pilot.

1. An ace, with a very respectable score but not, I think, number one on any strictly numerical list.

2. Very well known, in part perhaps because the authorities encouraged the publicizing of his successes to improve morale.

3. Most of the airplanes he flew during his war had a crew of two.

4. After finishing school, he worked as an engineering apprentice.
Old 09-22-2020, 11:47 AM
  #19043  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
Ball fits the clues, but he's not the pilot I'm looking for. Here are today's clue and a bonus clue.

Looking for the name of a well-known pilot.

1. An ace, with a very respectable score but not, I think, number one on any strictly numerical list.

2. Very well known, in part perhaps because the authorities encouraged the publicizing of his successes to improve morale.

3. Most of the airplanes he flew during his war had a crew of two.

4. After finishing school, he worked as an engineering apprentice.

How about WWII ace Stanley Orr? Thanks; Ernie P.

Answer: Stanley Gordon Orr



Stanley Gordon Orr, DSC & Two Bars, AFC (28 September 1916 – 11 August 2003) was the highest scoring fighter ace of the Royal Navy during the Second World War.[1] Flying with the Fleet Air Arm he was credited with the destruction of 17 aircraft.[2] His success was recognised by the awards of the Distinguished Service Cross and Two Bars, an Air Force Cross and a Mention in Despatches.



Orr took part in campaigns over Norway and Dunkirk in 1940 and then moved to the Mediterranean aboard HMS Illustrious. During this time he was involved in the Battle of Taranto, the defence of Malta, the Battle of Cape Matapan, and land based operations in Egypt. Later in the war in 1944, he was involved in the attack on the German battleship Tirpitz. At the end of the Second World War he remained in the navy, becoming a test pilot at the Empire Test Pilots' School. He saw further action during the Korean War, when he served aboard HMS Ocean as Commander (flying). His last job in the navy was in command of the Hovercraft trials unit. Upon leaving the Royal Navy in 1966, he became a marine superintendent at Vospers.



Stanley Gordon Orr was born on 28 September 1916, in London, England. The son of a stockbroker, he was educated at Paxton Park boarding school until the Wall Street crash left his father in financial difficulties; he then attended the Regent Street Polytechnic and started an apprenticeship at Humber. Leaving Humber after two years he joined Vale Engineering, which produced sports cars. His interest in flying started in 1936 when he was employed by Handley Page working on the prototypes for the Hampden and Halifax bombers. In 1939 he applied to join the Royal Air Force but was turned down after failing a medical eyesight test. Soon after, he successfully passed the same test in the same room but with a different doctor and joined the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Navy.



Having been accepted by the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve and holding the rank of sub-lieutenant, Orr gained his naval skills and learnt how to fly while serving on the old First World War vintage carrier HMS Argus. As a qualified pilot, he attended the air gunnery school before being posted to 759 Naval Air Squadron at Eastleigh, Hampshire, in February 1940. At Eastleigh, he was trained on the Navy's fighter aircraft: the two seater Blackburn Skua dual fighter–dive bomber and the single seat Sea Gladiator biplane.







Blackburn Roc two seater turret fighter



Stanley Gordon Orr married Myra Page in 1940. His first operational posting came in May 1940 when he joined 806 Naval Air Squadron, which was based at Hatston in the Orkney Islands.[nb 1] The squadron was equipped with the Blackburn Skua and Blackburn Roc, another two seater fighter, and at the time was tasked with attacking German shipping and oil storage facilities in Norway. Later, the squadron was moved to RAFmDetling, in Kent, to provide air cover for Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force from Dunkirk. In June, 806 Squadron was converted to fly the Fairey Fulmar, another two seater fighter, and was posted to the air group on the newly commissioned aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious.



Illustrious left Scapa Flow in August and arrived in the Mediterranean by September. Orr became an ace in the following months, claiming seven aircraft shot down out of 30 claimed by his squadron.[2][3] Orr's victories included a CANT Z.501 flying boat on 2 September and on 4 September off the Dodecanese he shared in the shooting down of a Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 bomber.[7] One of the first larger missions Orr took part in was providing the fighter cover for the Fairey Swordfish attack on the Italian fleet at Taranto. Other missions included attacks on German army positions at Bardia, bombing Tripoli in Libya, and attacks on the Rhodes airfields.[2][3] Orr was also awarded his first Distinguished Service Cross (DSC) for his service during these missions.[8]



On 10 January 1941, Orr and Sub-Lieutenant Graham Hogg observed two Savoia-Marchetti SM.79s making a torpedo bombing run on Illustrious; after a long chase they managed to shoot one of them down.[9] The Italian planes, however, had just been a diversion, because at the same time three squadrons of Junkers Ju 87 dive bombers from Sturzkampfgeschwader 1 and Sturzkampfgeschwader 2 arrived over the carrier.[9] The Ju 87s were circling the fleet at 11,000 ft (3,400 m), out of the range of the navy's anti-aircraft guns. They then targeted the carrier, diving down and hitting her six times. Orr, down at sea level and out of ammunition, climbed up through the carrier's anti-aircraft barrage in an attempt to disrupt the dive-bombers' attack.[4] With Illustrious damaged and unable to land her remaining seven Fairey Fulmar fighters, the aircraft were ordered to land at RAF Hal Far on Malta.



From RAF Hal Far, 806 Naval Air Squadron provided air cover for Malta and Illustrious which was berthed in the Grand Harbour at Valletta, under repair. On 5 February Orr shot down a Junkers Ju 88 that was bombing the city.[10] In total, flying in the defence of Malta, Orr added five more victories to his record and was awarded a second DSC.[4][11] The damage to Illustrious could not be repaired at Malta so she was sent to the United States for repairs. Meanwhile, 806 Naval Air Squadron remained in the Mediterranean, joining another Illustrious-class aircraft carrier,HMS Formidable.[3]



On board Formidable, Orr's squadron provided the fighter cover for her Fairey Albacores and Fairey Swordfish during the Battle of Cape Matapan in March 1941 and the bombing of Tripoli.[3] Orr shot down a Ju 88 during this time.[3] Another victory followed on 21 April. Flying over Tripoli, Orr and Sub-Lieutenant Graham Hogg forced a Dornier Do 24n flying boat down with its engine on fire. Each time it tried to take off again the pair carried out another attack until it eventually sank.[12] When Formidable was put out of action by German Ju 87 dive bombers, 806 Naval Air Squadron was again sent to operate from land. This time they were based at the naval Dekheila Airfield near Alexandria in Egypt and, at the same time, were re-formed with Hawker Hurricane fighters. In June, the squadron took part in operations against the Vichy French in Palestine.



In August 1941 Orr, having spent 18 months on operations, returned home and became a flying instructor at RNAS Yeovilton. A year later in August 1942, he was sent along with 80 officers and men to the United States to form 896 Naval Air Squadron. The squadron was equipped with Grumman Martlets at Norfolk, Virginia and then joined HMS Victorious.[4][nb 2] A shortage in American aircraft carriers resulted in the lending of Victorious to the United States Pacific Fleet where she was known by the alias USS Robin and her aircraft were repainted with American markings.[4] Orr was prevented from joining them in the Pacific when he contracted polio in March 1943. He spent 10 weeks at Pearl Harbor in an iron lung before making a complete recovery and was later sent home to Britain.



On his return, Orr feared he would be grounded but in August 1943 he was given a new command—804 Naval Air Squadron, which at the time was land based at RNAS Eglinton (HMS Gannet) in Northern Ireland and equipped with the Grumman Hellcat.[13][nb 3] With his new squadron Orr joined HMS Emperor, an American built Ruler-class escort carrier, in December. Emperor was involved in convoy escort duties and in the spring of 1944, the squadron started attacking German shipping off the Norwegian coast.[2][4]



The presence of the German battleship Tirpitz in Altafjord in Norway was a constant threat to the Arctic convoys and required the Royal Navy to retain a large aircraft carrier force with the Home Fleet to conduct operations along the Norwegian coast and to provide cover for these convoys. In March 1944 the fleet formed a large strike force in an attempt to destroy the Tirpitz in Operation Tungsten.[14] The force included the fleet carriers HMS Furious and HMS Victorious, which were tasked with carrying the main strike force of Fairey Barracudas and Vought F4U Corsairs, while the main fighter force was provided by the escort carriers Emperor, which was equipped with Grumman Hellcats, together with HMS Searcher and HMS Pursuer, carrying Grumman Wildcats.



Orr, who was in command of the second strike group, remembered: "Upon arrival over Tirpitz it was found that the smoke screen generated by the Germans had ridden half way up the mountains on either side of the Kaafjord. Each flight attacked their pre-briefed gun sites once it was clear that no enemy fighters were in the area. The Hellcat proved itself to be an excellent gun platform on this mission."[15] For his part with this operation, Orr was awarded the second Bar to his DSC.[2] A mixed formation of 18 aircraft from 804 and 800 Naval Air Squadron on 14 May, led by Orr, attacked shipping near Vikten Island and, along with LieutenantBlyth Ritchie, he shot down a Heinkel He 115floatplane.[16] At the same time he also shared in the destruction of two Blohm & Voss BV 138 flying boats and two more Heinkel floatplanes, for which he was mentioned in despatches.
Old 09-23-2020, 04:11 AM
  #19044  
Top_Gunn
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Not Orr. So here are today's clue and a bonus clue.

Looking for the name of a well-known pilot.

1. An ace, with a very respectable score but not, I think, number one on any strictly numerical list.

2. Very well known, in part perhaps because the authorities encouraged the publicizing of his successes to improve morale.

3. Most of the airplanes he flew during his war had a crew of two.

4. After finishing school, he worked as an engineering apprentice.

5. Some of the public accounts of his successes contained statements now known to have been flat-out lies.

6. One of his victories was achieved without firing a shot.
Old 09-23-2020, 04:36 AM
  #19045  
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I'm going to guess Canadian Roy Brown.
Old 09-23-2020, 04:43 AM
  #19046  
Ernie P.
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This is more to get an "obvious" answer out of the way, so I can move on; especially since I don't think the "engineering" thing fits. Still; how about either pilot Atkey or his gunner Gass? Interesting answer by FlyerInOKC; since I hadn't thought about Roy Brown. Thanks; Ernie P.


Answer: Atkey or Gass







Alfred Clayburn Atkey, MC & Bar (16 August 1894 – 14 February 1971) was a Canadian First World War flying ace, officially credited with 38 aerial victories, making him the fifth highest scoring Canadian ace. However, all those above him flew in single-seat fighters, whereas Atkey gained all his victories in heavier two-seater aircraft, becoming the highest scoring two-seater pilot of the war.



Atkey enlisted into the British Army, joining the 2/24th Battalion, London Regiment, a Territorial Force unit that was stationed in England until sent to France in June 1916.[3] On 19 October Atkey was commissioned as a second lieutenant (on probation) in the Royal Flying Corps,[4] and was confirmed in his rank in September 1917.[5] He was then posted to No. 18 Squadron to fly the Airco DH.4 day bomber. He and his gunners claimed nine victories between 4 February and 21 April 1918. He was then transferred to No. 22 Squadron to fly the Bristol F.2b fighter/reconnaissance aircraft in "A" Flight, paired with Lieutenant Charles George Gass as his gunner/observer. On 7 May Atkey and Gass took part in an historic dogfight north-east of Arras, known as the "Two Against Twenty", when Atkey and Gass, with John Gurdon and Anthony Thornton, fought twenty German scout aircraft. Atkey and Gass shot down five enemy aircraft while Gurdon and Thornton accounted for three. Two days later, Atkey and Gass again shot down five enemy aircraft in a single day.[1] The next day, 10 May, Atkey was appointed a flight commander with the acting rank of captain.[6] Atkey claimed a further 19 aircraft between 15 May and 2 June,[1] and was then was posted to back to the Home Establishment in England.



Atkey was subsequently awarded the Military Cross and a Bar to the award. The first was gazetted on 22 June 1918. His citation read:



Second Lieutenant Alfred Clayburn Atkey, RFC, Special Reserve.
For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When engaged on reconnaissance and bombing work, he attacked four scouts, one of which he shot down in flames. Shortly afterwards he attacked four two-seater planes, one of which he brought down out of control. On two previous occasions his formation was attacked by superior numbers of the enemy, three of whom in all were shot down out of control. He has shown exceptional ability and initiative on all occasions.
[7]



The Bar was gazetted on 13 September 1918, reading:



Lieutenant (Temporary Captain) Alfred Clayburn Atkey, MC, RAF.
For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. During recent operations he destroyed seven enemy machines. When engaged with enemy aircraft, often far superior in numbers, he proved himself a brilliant fighting pilot, and displayed dash and gallantry of a high order.
Old 09-23-2020, 04:53 AM
  #19047  
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I took another look I don't think its Roy Brown now.
Old 09-23-2020, 05:22 AM
  #19048  
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I know Billy Bishop had a lot of questionable victories but I don't think its him.
Old 09-23-2020, 05:46 AM
  #19049  
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IIRC, wasn't Roy Brown the person that got credit for shooting down the "Red Baron"? Also, IIRC, if it was Brown, he was flying a single seater at the time but didn't actually shoot the "Baron" down. The "Baron" was hit in the side by ground fire while trying to avoid fire from the pursuing fighter and died after landing his still flyable aircraft on a nearby field
Old 09-23-2020, 08:33 AM
  #19050  
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Several interesting guesses, but none of them the person I'm looking for. Bonus question follows; it may narrow the field a bit.

Looking for the name of a well-known pilot.

1. An ace, with a very respectable score but not, I think, number one on any strictly numerical list.

2. Very well known, in part perhaps because the authorities encouraged the publicizing of his successes to improve morale.

3. Most of the airplanes he flew during his war had a crew of two.

4. After finishing school, he worked as an engineering apprentice.

5. Some of the public accounts of his successes contained statements now known to have been flat-out lies.

6. One of his victories was achieved without firing a shot.

7. After his war, he returned to civilian life but did serve in a reserve unit.

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