RE: Landing
 

[sm=75_75.gif]

RE: Landing
 

A very good point! I have a TF p-51 that the nose would be really high whit a snaprolltendency if i tried a 3pointer,that one I do wheellandings all the time with..Videotime again!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Vf_0lvXOw[/youtube]

And this is something I´m not so proude of,my Sist FW190 a windy day on tarmac,got a couple laughs about when i was going to put it down..This aircraft I have found is a little bit tricky for me to get smooth landings with but it has improved since this video![8D]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwNZpYpYQY[/youtube]

//Bokis

RE: Landing
 

And we "missed the real point" how? That IS the point many are making. The heavy war bird landing is made on the mains PRIOR TO THE WING STALLING. As contrast to a lightly loaded aircraft that can be safely stalled to the ground. The stall AOA varies with different designs and should be determined at altitude, but speed is the critical element. This is perhaps the hardest component to judge in RC flying. But, here is where RC war bird flying and full scale do closely compare. Generally speaking, a little too much speed is far better than a little too little, when landing.

RE: Landing
 

ahhh argueing is like a one man special olympics...

RE: Landing
 

Here is the original post. The 'challenge' has been answered IMO, several different ways, by many different builders and pilots. It is no mystery that HIS relatively lightly loaded sport scale ARF, will tolerate a longer flair, with a higher AOA, and aerodynamic braking that results. To arbitrarily apply this procedure to war birds in general would be a costly mistake.

With the extra insurance of speed TO PREVENT THE STALL, comes the need for a lower AOA, and a little longer run-out on those mains.

So what you're flying, and the restrictions and conditions of the site you choose to fly at, dictates your flair attitude.

That is basically the whole enchilada for me. If I'm missing something important, I apologize.

RE: Landing
 

No ram, you got my point. We model flyers cannot reproduce the full size landing attitudes of any airplane because of this. Sometimes the very best we can do is just a tail low touchdown. As for the original poster he's just discovered the proper war to land any tailwheel aircraft, and is thinking he's the first to do so, as we all did when we 'got it'. I have the Eric Brown book about his testing of German aircraft during the war, and his comparisons of the landing habits of some of the best German aircraft compared with his experience of his own countries makes interesting reading. Particulaly the very bouncy arrival of the FW 190 if you didn't get the tail right down. Some of the U Tube WW2 footage of 190's landing illustates that point, reproduced by my own model too, unless the speed is right down, tail just about scraping, then you can forget about a tidy arrival and just hope you can keep it straight until it stops hopping about. So in some respects, if you build accurately enough, then you will reproduce the less attractive qualities of your subject as well. I find that it's when your model has no surviving records, like some of the very early types, that you really have learn what was known a long time ago all over again. that can be fun.
Evan, WB #12.

RE: Landing
 

Bokis,

As to brakes on a B-17. A guy in our club who scratch built/flies a Don Smith plans, 146" with four Zenoah G-26' has brakes on his mains. Believe he uses the glennis wheels with brakes or the century jet brand. They work good and he uses them as required depending on rollout/runway. Tailwheel is standard robart.

He also has a TF-P51. To improve slow speed landing approaches, you can add some safety margin by adjusting both ailerons "up" about 2 turns out on the 4-40 pushrods. This in effect adds wash-out and allows a better landing for the Mustang which is notorious for tip stalls. No effect on rest of the flight noticed.

He has been flying a Ziroli P-47 with 3W-75 past 6 years or so. He lands as well as anyone. Must be that he too sat in a P-40 once. He is the one thats aid video a few landings and see your errors. I've only sat in the P-51, Spitfire, Corsair, & Skyraider as those are my favorites. The Corsair pilot, "OB" is 82 years old and flew F4U-4's in Korea. FAA will ground him at 85. But I digress.

All,
Come visit as we have access to over 30 full scale WW-2 and now have 3 Triplanes from W-1. All fly regularly here in Virginia Beach VA. You all can see them first hand weekend 20 May 2011. The owner just purchase "Chuckie" a silver/yellow tail B-17 "pathfinder" flown in from texas. One pass with the spit and P-51 off her wings and heck a beautifull.. softest landing ever. he floated 1 foot off the deck for like 75 yards and touched ever so soft on the mains.

This fall a fully retsored Mosquito is due in. She is being restored in New Zealand for the past several years and will be shipped and then re-assmbled. Twin Merlins will be awesome!
Here is the link. http://www.militaryaviationmuseum.org/

RE: Landing
 

Give it up Ram. It just ain't gonna get through.

RE: Landing
 

I think we may all, or most all of us be thinking and doing the same thing, in reality, even if we aren't saying it the same way. Bottom line for me is, to date, I HAVE NOT lost a heavy giant scale war bird on a landing. Actually, the only one I have lost was to radio interference. It was proven and very sad. A very scaled out Hawker Hurricane. My P-38 went in after an engine failure, but I made all the repairs and she is ready to fly again. I have had some landings that were better than others, but it seems that for me, what I do works. Taking my expensive and tediously build war birds home in tack is paramount to me, as I'm sure it is for you guys.

On a totally unrelated subject, I just got home from the hospital, being with my son and daughter in law for the birth of yet another Prince. His name is Jackson Prince and mother and baby boy (and dad:D) are great. My 4th grandchild and second grandson. :D

I hope to be able to share this great hobby with them all.:D

RE: Landing
 

:D:D:D:D:D

RE: Landing
 

Thanks Mike for your input about brakes,now I feel there is hope! Good to hear about the mosquito,a flying wooden wonder is something I really would like to hear..

Congrats Ram!:D :D
//Bokis

RE: Landing
 

Last summer, I pulled off one of the nicest T.O.M Sopwith Pup landings on video tape possible... mains touching down just so very nice and brought the tail down for a wonderful landing.

Later on I heard people at the office said it was "horrible"... they expected a three point landing. Yeah right with a tail skid, not in this bloody life-time. People's perceptions are in stark contrast with the reality of how individual planes need to be flown, landed and taken off. Once people understand, they like learning some of the historical traits of the planes. It is up to us as living historians to inform fellow pilots and rail birds what can be expected of the airplane.

Full size planes have pitch(w/ or w/o flaps) and power settings that corresponds with airspeed and sink. The pilot is landing by the numbers with the resultant pitch/attitude of the plane in the envelope the designer expected the plane to be flown with. Each designer and plane requirements and equipment result in varying settings, but if you fly the numbers, you will have a decent resultant landing.

RC is a bit more difficult without airspeed to rely on, so you have to learn by sight the correct approach speed. I look forward to the day that I have airspeed on my receiver. You can almost never go wrong landing on the mains and rolling out.

RE: Landing
 

Well said, and wish we could see the video.:D

RE: Landing
 

I have a Dreidecker that works fine with wheel landings,different kind of aircraft yes,less wingloading..
It´s a lot easier "not tipping over" doing this and i feel that I have some control over it rolling out,,
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY4iNr1bIdw&playnext=1&list=PLCE4B7F71C601 06FA[/youtube]
//Bokis

RE: Landing
 

Nice plane, and nice flying. Looks way over scale power. You need to fly it at about 1/3 that speed for scale realism points.:D

RE: Landing
 

NOT INTERESTED!!!:D:D:D

RE: Landing
 

I know, you look like you're having a great time as it is.:D:D

RE: Landing
 

Bokis,

some Mossi pics and link to the restoration project.

http://www.warbirdrestoration.co.nz/

RE: Landing
 

One of the three restored Fokker Dreidecker's at our local museum.

I forgot I sat in this one after helping assemble the "ARF" as it came in tabout 4PM in a UHAUL rental van the day before the airshow in 2009. Assembly took 6 hours with 4-5 of us helping the restorer. What a thrill.

Later it would have to be taken apart and made ready for flights. It flew in 2010 with the others.

RE: Landing
 

Last pics as I'm drifting of centerline on this thread.

For Experten109/P40.

Enjoy the Museums P40E, also restored in New Zealand. Won trophy at Oskosh a few years back.
You need to come visit. Rex Hill signed the inside of the cargo door aft port side!

Notice the Flying tiger decal. Walt Disney actually produced decals for the AVG. They have agreed to continued to supply the museum with exact copies of the orig.

RE: Landing
 

A man's just got to know his capabilities. See attempted 3-point.<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqGW9MIH3aE&amp;feature=related">

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqGW9MIH3aE&amp;feature=related</a>

RE: Landing
 

Check these two totally different approaches to landing the same plane though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rnr1...eature=related

RE: Landing
 

Ram, nice vids. Thats why my earlier statement: <u> A man's just got to know his capabilities</u>.
I have only been a member of RCU for about a month, and even though I have been flying models for over 30 years, I have learned alot reading all these points of view and different building and finishing techniques. The biggest trick is to keep an open mind and try things. In this little thing about landing I can't help thik of a problem solving course I once took. It was about a principle called LO-LO (lock on - lock out). Some of us lock on to one way and lock out all other possibilities.
And for my Canadian Brother, This does not mean I am supporting 3-point with a heavy warbird, Im using what works for me. Remember Robert S Tuck and Douglas Bader refered to the Hurricane as a Kite (ref earlier Hurricane 3-point vid). Any way, I am enjoying this. Retired now, so this gives me something to do when not taking a nap.

RE: Landing
 

I divorced myself from the "LO/LO" group when I went through three $15 dollar props. My posts have desribed my landing field and its limitations. Wheel landings were the major contributor. I found a different technique that saved not only money but brought me closer to the capabilities of the aircraft I'm flying. Yes, it's only 1/6 scale but it weights a lot less than the ESM FW190 I started out with. I will go larger in scale and use the same landing strip that I'm using now.

RE: Landing
 

My experience is very similar. I went about 34 years in the hobby before joining this site. I joined almost at the very beginning of it (see the -RCU at the end of my handle). Been 9 years now or so. Man, how time flies (pun intended:D).

I have learned much from my peers, and tried to share as much of my knowledge of RC as I can when I can, with others. It's a great thing we have here. Most of all, I think this venue has contributed to helping bring along new people to RC. It is with this in mind that I make many of my recommendations that I do. Not that it is the only way, but I like to concentrate on suggestions that will offer a guy the best % of success. With experience comes a broader base of possibilities, in most cases.

In this case, I see way too many war birds die young because of landing accidents, the single biggest thing needing a different mindset from the average sport plane, again, talking about the more scale warbird now.