Everything is going foam! So at events will they be allowed?
 

Im looking for a warbird to fly at warbird flies. I noticed several call foam airplanes "park flyers". Im not going to argue that point.

But my point is it is getting harder to find and ARF that is wood or composite. Nearly everything available is foam.

I do know there are some still out there, but a limited selection. Going forward the trend seems they may disappear? ESM seems to be disappearing. Century models I've been warned about. Byron, and yellow are gone.

So is foam the new standard? They are getting up into the 70" wingspan.

Do you guys eventually see warbird events allowing foam models to fly?

Im considering a larger 60" foam model made of EPO, which I would glass and paint. More work than most wood arfs.

Or am I missing something?

Thanks

Why are you not considering The giant scale Top Flight planes. They all without exception fly well, are repairable, have good parts availability.
They require you to learn to fly and land a Warbird. Sometimes pilots don't want to take the time and the effort to learn. I personally don't consider anything made of foam anything other than a parkflyer no matter what the wing spans is. Just my personal opinion.

Sure sure, there is stuff out there but its getting harder to find it. Also SIG offers some models on the budget line seagull, but not too scale.

Also, I see plenty of j-3 cubs as well as t-28s at warbrid flies, those really don't fly like "warbirds" either.

But I digress,

I just wonder, eventually are we all going to fly top flight planes? Or will foamies be allowed?

I haven't attended a flyin where foam models were not allowed, although I seldom see foam models at these events. When pilots reach the level of proficiency and confidence to fly at events, they usually have the same proficiency to build and fly larger, balsa and composite air frames.

At this level, it is not uncommon for many to build their models from kits, plans, or their own designs.

I feel that you may be equating the lack of foamies at events, with them not being allowed. I believe that you do not see them because they are not the air frame of choice for pilots that attend flyins.

I run a warbird event every year in Kansas City, and have given this issue a great deal of thought. Our next event will be in July and excludes park flyers and flat foamies. The latter needs little explanation but the "Park flyers" issue indicates size as much as anything. We have 65" minimum wingspan requirement this year and will be going to 80" next year. The goal is to attract the larger, more complex and more impressive aircraft and their owners to the event. I have seen the development of the foam warbirds and they are getting more impressive every year.
Horizon markets their 80, plus inch T-28. I would not exclude that plane from flying as it is large and impressive.
I suspect one of the unspoken issues is the level of commitment. Someone who has a couple of thousand hours in scratch-building a warbird might be concerned about the relative flying skills of someone flying a plug-and-fly model. The risk of collision and loss from the actions of an inexperienced pilot is a real concern.
As I said earlier, I will allow the entry of the planes based upon wingspan but will discuss the issue with everyone at the pilots meeting. Perhaps we will have a timeslot for the injection molded planes. I'll keep an open mind on the issue and see how it goes.

For 13 years I have run a "fun" Scale contest at our club. We draw pilots from other surrounding clubs. We award prize money to 10 categories. 2 or those are for ARF's and foamies. We have always welcomed all scale planes. As for national events, the level of detail and realism in scale planes will always eclipse arf foam planes.

All of these planes are EPO and with the exception of the Wildcat the wing spans range from 66" thru 82"
The gray foam Corsair was cut from B Taylor plans .
Contest can find a reason to exclude or include any type of plane. With creativity some events get the kids involved with the elfight tiny line of planes and fail safe systems, all good for the hobby and the people in attendance.
It really depend on the event you want to enter.
Persoanlly I have been building wood glass and foam and with my recent club I found that some of the oldest most traditional members are in total awe of foam and how they fly. Most are beyond the point of wanting a 30 lb warbird so a 79" P40 that comes in at 15 lbs is a total joy to fly .
Both my P40ties are 79", full scratch built interiors, full powered Fergelli canopy servos, animated pilots tied to alierons and elevator and the club member get a total kick out of seeing them fly. Scale props, cool sounds and simple plug and play .
So find a contest that will allow you to fly what you actualy enjoy and don't compromise

I don't think everything is going foam at all. I think what you're seeing is an influx of new interest?

Generally speaking, those with the time and skill will almost always go gas and composite or traditional balsa. There are LOTS of non foam options out there, and especially if you're willing to build from a kit. Also lots of ARF planes of every kind from a good selection of manufacturers. Maybe you just don't know where to look...?

Kits are getting rare. Balsa/composite arf selections are shrinking. YES, there are options currently, but I am speaking in terms of the future. The trend is not looking good.

I have a few large foam jets that I glass, mod, and paint. Its quite a bit of work, more so than most basla arfs. I think that the issue of "skill" (flying) is not what I am really after here.

I go to warbird flies and watch numerous models crash due to pilot error, some people cant even hit the runway. yet they spend hundreds of hours building something. The risk of losing your precious work is already there with or without foam.

I do agree that the small 1m foamies you can buy are probably NOT what we want filling the skies. But I am talking about the larger ones, especially if they are modified/bashed.

We are also seeing foam turbine models now.

My prediction is eventually most everything will be foam, with people glassing/painting them when more strength or better looks are needed.


In terms of "eliteness", the market is already flooded with arfs. I do envy those people with enough time to build something amazing, but they are also a dying off. Warbird flies are already flooded with run of the mill (literally) arfs.

It sounds like some events are already starting to accept foamies. I

do agree foam is easier to fly. I have a foam me-262 and it has 0 stall or snap, which is insane for a 262. Same with a big foam mustang I have.

Basically I am in the market for a new war bird and just noticed choices are slim. Seagull has several new models but they are all "sport scale". So if I can have that, why not foam? neither one flies like a war bird.

I am looking at the top flight stuff as well. But noticing lots of large foamies that I could make it hard to tell are foam, like the gent above my post.

PS. I am NOT advocating for foam models, I am just curious what the direction is with warbird flies. Eventually attendance is going to drop off if you don't start embracing the trends.

What event is it? Does it allow jets?

Yes, we have jets on occasion. Our runway is mowed and rolled grass about 700 feet long and 100 wide with a big flyover area. It's a good event! No admission charge, and a free lunch for registered pilots. Primitive overnight camping is allowed. I'll have the flyer updated soon. The event is called Warbirds over Missouri and it is our 3rd year.

Ok Ill check it out, I only have 1 warbird that is a jet right now, the other is a sport jet. I sold off my mig-29 but not sure I would let it go on grass.

We go to KC about 6 times a year for WOF.

Be glad to have you attend! Since you know where WOF is, you would stay on 435 North til it swings to the west and exit on Woodland, and turn south. The field is on the east in about 1/2 mile. It will be held on July 30th from 9am, forward.

We're going to try and get Tom Cook to attend this year. He's been meaning to.....

Well all I can say is personally, I hope it doesn't move to "75%" foam or whatever the saturation point may be. I dislike anything foam and far prefer a heavier flying airplane.

Something about foam that says "cheap" and more of a toy. If there are a bunch of foam guys who love electric planes... all the best to them, but I'll take a gas powered composite or wood plane anyday.

It's not a warbird fly-in without the sound... how boring would that be to have a gaggle of electric foam planes flying around? Boring. Quick way to kill attendance IMO, and push things closer to TOY and not hobby territory.

When ARFs, especially foam ones, replace real, honest to g-d hard work at building a real model and flying it at a warbird event to show it off, that will be the end of true competition.

It is a damn shame that you are limiting warbirds to size rather than construction. There are some beautiful Corsair 43 inch Midis out there that are every bit as much a warbird as a Giant Scale Top Flite Corsair. They are certainlymuch more effort than a 60 inch foamy.

I don't mean to sound rude, but everything I've seen on you tube and in person with regards to warbird flies is about 90% ARFs.

Many ARFs win awards too, many of which are out of the box.

There are some true master pieces too, very cool. I wish I had the time.

I have a HET a-10 that is about 1M in wingspan, it is it extremely scale looking and very fast. Weighs over 6 lbs which is pretty heavy and hard to fly than 99% of the stuff out there. Its harder than all turbine jets I've owned as it gets so small and comes in so hot.

I just think eventually we'll have to consider different types of competitions such as glassing and painting foamies,.

There are also numerous scratch builts out there made out of foam.

Foam in not durable not even epo but to me it's equally annoying to pick up my ESM planes and feel the fuselage compress in areas not supported by wood.
Personally I don't have the time to build anymore but I do prefer wood ARFs to foam and I prefer foam to ESM or the old CMP fiberglass.
As far as the original op I don't see wood or glass going away in fact with Sig avid JB models I see more and new all the time

I certainly don't know what the future holds, but I am sure that change will always be coming. I'll do my best to keep an open mind on the issue, and I will always appreciate a true modeler who loves to fly.

We have always allowed foam models at our annual warbird event, Warbirds Over Livermore, in Livermore California and I don't recall ever attending a warbird event where foam models were not allowed. If you happen to be in Northern California on August 20th, you are welcome to join us.

-Ed B.

I love everything about warbirds the building and flying but there are some nice looking foam panes and guys are bashing/painting them into some unique scheme's including removing the heavy cartoonish panel lines and redoing them to be more scale,I like kit building so thats what my focus is but I am not afraid to admit I just purchased a FMS FW190 A foam plane and am looking forward to getting it up and having some fun with it.

there's also allot of foam forming many planes especially some of the more complex curves http://tompierce.net/190/index.htm pierce built this Devine foam kit built FW190 into a sweet looking bird, the build is over 5 years old foam assisted construction has been around for a long time it is these new ARF's are so easy to get flying but its not going to totally replace old fashioned kit building, but its been a game changer for sure.

I was looking at your event pics, it seems attendance is a bit low(10 pilots?). You guys realize that a 65" wingspan limit eliminates most 60 sized aircraft? But a 40 sized cub has 80". Personally if I had a small event I would probably open it up a bit, to perhaps even let foam jets fly. But perhaps you have some serious builders in KC and that's why, and that's OK I understand.

There are some serious aircraft at NAMFI in Minnesota. Maybe you attract them over.

My YA-f18 single turbine model has a 55" wingspan. My Mig-29 had a 65" so I cant fly there. But thanks for the offer. All I have that meets your criteria is a 40 sized cub with a 80" wingspan, and its kinda boring.

I am looking at getting something else but I was looking at 60 sized, which has around 60" wingspan on average.

There is a p-38 I am considering with a 80" wingspan but its 40 sized. Maybe in a couple years.

Thanks!

Our event has no size or type restrictions,, if it's a warbird, it can fly

my experience with foam warbirds is they look great until you get up real close to them. Its easy for them to get the complex shapes and panel lines spot on, the problem is the texture of the model "skin" As far as how they fly lighter is better, but I think they can't fly great because foam is flexy, right?