co2 torpedoes idea
11-19-2007, 09:04 PM
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co2 torpedoes idea
what ifyou put fins on a co2 canister and put a spring loded needle in a torpedo tube so when you make a shrvo move it releaese the spring with the needle on it it goes throught the seel on the co2 and out the tube and in to the water.
11-19-2007, 11:32 PM
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RE: co2 torpedoes idea
Corey,
1) Too big for scale
2) Too much power
3) Too heavy/dangerous a projectile.
If you will do some research on the net, you will find that machined brass torpedoes filled with compressed air or gas have been around for a long time in the larger scales (like 1/72)
For 1/144, they are just represented by 1/4" ball-bearing guns (in Big Gun).
Cheers,
Wreno
1) Too big for scale
2) Too much power
3) Too heavy/dangerous a projectile.
If you will do some research on the net, you will find that machined brass torpedoes filled with compressed air or gas have been around for a long time in the larger scales (like 1/72)
For 1/144, they are just represented by 1/4" ball-bearing guns (in Big Gun).
Cheers,
Wreno
11-21-2007, 09:49 AM
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RE: co2 torpedoes idea
I think that a lot of the interest in torpedoes that keeps popping up comes from the images we've all seen in WWII movies, of torpedoes streaking through the water, leaving a wake of bubbles. Most of these posts seem to want to recreate that image, rather than produce a viable combat weapon. Those who want to develop realistic-looking scale torpedoes for combat should consider the following:
What, exactly, does it take to penetrate a combat warship's skin? A 1/4" steel ball bearing needs to be fired at about 160 feet-per-second (fps). Smaller projectiles, such as 0.177" bbs, need to get up to around 200 fps. Calculate what sort of kinetic energy is involved & use that to determine how fast your scale torpedo needs to propel itself to be effective. Any kind of explosive is forbidden in any combat club that I'm familiar with, so you've got to rely only on the energy delivered by the mass & speed of the torpedo itself. If you build the torpedo to anything remotely close to scale & able to float, what sort of mass are we talking about & what speed are you going to need? Just the simple mechanics of achieving that speed by a self-propelled torpedo, I think, will be challenging.
How long must the torpedo remain in the water, if you're going to achieve the desired visual effect? I'm thinking that it's going to need to need at least 2-3 seconds of run-time just for the "visual" to register. People will need about a second to detect that it's there, another second to track the course, & another second or 2 to "ooh", "aah", & otherwise admire the effect. So, you're probably going to want that much time between launch & impact just to make it worth doing. A self-propelled torpedo will need a little bit of time to come up to speed, unlike a "shot" torpedo whose velocity is highest at the moment it's fired, so that's going to add a little more time. Figure, maybe, up to 5 seconds between launch & impact if the visual effect is going to be any good at all.
Based on the velocity needed to inflict damage, & the time needed to get a decent visual effect, what's that going to do to the range of the torpedo? My guess is that it's going to push the necessary range out to around 35-40 feet or more. Good luck hitting anything at that range. It's challenging enough to aim guns from 1 ship toward another, on the surface, when you're standing several yards away without a direct line-of-sight between your ship & the target, at much closer ranges. I can only imagine what it would be like trying to hit something that far away from a submerged sub.
Assuming that it can all be made to work reliably & effectively, what's going to be the effect on the game? Hitting something more than 6-8 feet away with guns is rare enough. At ranges around 35-40 feet, even if you do score a gun hit, there's not going to be enough energy left to do any damage. So, now here comes a weapon that can actually score hits & do damage at that range - what is that going to do to the game? How are the surface ships going to counter a weapon that out-ranges them by such a large margin? They can't expect to get close enough for their own weapons to be effective, so that makes the sub practically invincible. Technical issues aside, consider how any new system is going to impact game-play & figure out why anybody who has a gunned surface ship would want to allow the system into the game.
Suggestions:
1. Build it.
2. Demonstrate it.
3. Show how it can improve the game for all involved.
JM
What, exactly, does it take to penetrate a combat warship's skin? A 1/4" steel ball bearing needs to be fired at about 160 feet-per-second (fps). Smaller projectiles, such as 0.177" bbs, need to get up to around 200 fps. Calculate what sort of kinetic energy is involved & use that to determine how fast your scale torpedo needs to propel itself to be effective. Any kind of explosive is forbidden in any combat club that I'm familiar with, so you've got to rely only on the energy delivered by the mass & speed of the torpedo itself. If you build the torpedo to anything remotely close to scale & able to float, what sort of mass are we talking about & what speed are you going to need? Just the simple mechanics of achieving that speed by a self-propelled torpedo, I think, will be challenging.
How long must the torpedo remain in the water, if you're going to achieve the desired visual effect? I'm thinking that it's going to need to need at least 2-3 seconds of run-time just for the "visual" to register. People will need about a second to detect that it's there, another second to track the course, & another second or 2 to "ooh", "aah", & otherwise admire the effect. So, you're probably going to want that much time between launch & impact just to make it worth doing. A self-propelled torpedo will need a little bit of time to come up to speed, unlike a "shot" torpedo whose velocity is highest at the moment it's fired, so that's going to add a little more time. Figure, maybe, up to 5 seconds between launch & impact if the visual effect is going to be any good at all.
Based on the velocity needed to inflict damage, & the time needed to get a decent visual effect, what's that going to do to the range of the torpedo? My guess is that it's going to push the necessary range out to around 35-40 feet or more. Good luck hitting anything at that range. It's challenging enough to aim guns from 1 ship toward another, on the surface, when you're standing several yards away without a direct line-of-sight between your ship & the target, at much closer ranges. I can only imagine what it would be like trying to hit something that far away from a submerged sub.
Assuming that it can all be made to work reliably & effectively, what's going to be the effect on the game? Hitting something more than 6-8 feet away with guns is rare enough. At ranges around 35-40 feet, even if you do score a gun hit, there's not going to be enough energy left to do any damage. So, now here comes a weapon that can actually score hits & do damage at that range - what is that going to do to the game? How are the surface ships going to counter a weapon that out-ranges them by such a large margin? They can't expect to get close enough for their own weapons to be effective, so that makes the sub practically invincible. Technical issues aside, consider how any new system is going to impact game-play & figure out why anybody who has a gunned surface ship would want to allow the system into the game.
Suggestions:
1. Build it.
2. Demonstrate it.
3. Show how it can improve the game for all involved.
JM
