hobbidude

Hi all,

Just returning from a long time away from the forums. I was just curious whether there are any surcouf sub models out there battling away. I heard of some with the large Jap subs and others but i haven't heard of a surcouf yet although it would probably be the best. As a double the sub could have working twin cannon which would be better than torps (or definitly less of a problem or mess). I would love to build one myself but unfortunately i don't live anywhere near a club.

Also if anyone is looking for surcouf schematics i happen to have about a set of 1/2 dozen that could easily be used for a model.

Great to hear everyone again.

Wreno

Surcouf's have been built (not in our club), but. like other subs, have been a novelty, not particularly battle effective.

Again, subs are a VERY TOUGH build in 1/144 scale as it is. Adding guns/torps merely adds to the complexity.

Remember the advantage you have in 1:1 subs, stealth, is lost (if you can see your sub to maneuver it, the opponent can see it to avoid it).
Also, extrapolate - with a real sub, you would go to station and wait quietly for your quarry, often for days. This does not translate into a lot of fun at the pond, as, by the time your quarry is in position, the battle may well be over.

There are numerous reasons why subs are one of the most discussed but least used aspects of RC Warship Combat.

BTW, I have 3 sub hulls myself, and may actually complete one one of these days, but recogni8ze it will only be a novelty, for the Gee-Whiz factor, not an effective cobatant.

Cheers,

Wreno

subcaptian

How much for one of those hulls? do they have combat equipment installed?

hobbidude

I've done quick a bit of research on seeing if subs could have some positions but sadly it never looks good.
Of course torps are the hardest problem but that's why i chose the surcouf with the twin cannon turret. Even in 1/144 the sub would be about 3 feet long. Also there is still advantage of submerging with a sub. Of course most stealth is lost in this type of play but the options of a hit and run and being able to submerge quick enough to get outside range of anothers cannon is handy. I was just planning of having a submergable sub with the twin cannons and no torps. Even under ircwcc rules you get a 1 1/2 unit cannon that can be split up. Got to be some fun there.

subcaptian

you could put a camera on it. Right above the turret.

kotori

Hobbidude, do you mean this Surcouf?

http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/...attle/IMG_1745
http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/...attle/IMG_1862
http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/...attle/IMG_1903
http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/...attle/IMG_2098
http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/...attle/IMG_2080

This Surcouf has been in service since at least 2003, when I joined the club. It has seen excellent service, and has a significant list of kills. On the other hand, it is and old boat and suffered frequent leaks, and it was almost as likely to sink itself when firing torpedoes as it was to sink the target. It was retired two years ago when the skipper got a fiberglass I-400 hull and built that to new club submarine rules.

hobbidude

Well it good to see a sub out there and yes that is a model of the french surcouf but still there is no working cannons which would have been an obvious working necessity at least for me. I see the model does look a bit rough but again its good to see some more sub action.

Where's are the great sub ideas on the forum being implemented too. I've yet to see a decent sub even tho it definety seems possilbe. anyway

kotori

... Hobbidude, the submarine I showed you was an active fighting ship, with working cannons and an impressive list of kills. If you're looking for the 8" deck guns, then no, there aren't any. In Big Gun, they are too small a caliber to be a serious threat to other ships, while torpedoes are. Hence the choice in armament.

As for all the "great sub ideas" listed on this forum... notice how none of them have been proposed by the folks who actually do R/C naval combat. There's a very good reason for this. Many of the captains who actually battle their ships are inventors and tinkerers, so it should come as no surprise when I say that WE'VE ALREADY THOUGHT OF IT. Most of the "ideas" are actually pretty obvious. And not only that, we've realized that these ideas are either impractical or impossible (or found out by trying it), and thought of better ideas that actually work. One of the best examples of this is the torpedo. Why try to invent something that's going to cost a lot of money per shot, take tens of hours of precision machining, and presents a major safety hazard to users, when you can just use an ordinary 1/4" cannon? Sure it doesn't shoot 20 feet, but you can't hit at that range anyway. Sure it doesn't explode on impact, or trigger a spring-loaded impact-hammer, or whatever, but it can still put a hole in the target within the range it can accurately shoot (while you're standing on shore 50 feet away from both it and its target). But no, every geek who comes along and sees this hobby thinks he's come up with the ultimate idea and can do it better than the folks who've been trying to for over 20 years. It's absurd.

Sorry for the rant and I hope you don't take it personally, but I answer questions about rockets, self-propelled torpedoes, depth charges, M-80s, flamethrowers, dive bombers, and other nonsense on my youtube videos all the time, and it drives me absolutely NUTS.

subcaptian

ohh.... about that dive bomber part, mabye I should RC my balsawood Stuka and a bomb drop mechanism....

hobbidude

LOL. I see what you mean kotori when you have to listen to peeps like subcapt. over hear. rofl. Good again to see a sub doing well in battle. I was thinking a little for along the lines of the fast/small gun clubs and thre rules thatn big gun. I personally like big gun better but all of the closed clubs to me are small gun so... nevertheless i still enjoy see other designs and hopes in submarine designs and i'm all for develop. Progess doesn't just happen by people just sitting around. Still great to hear the sub guys are getting some action. Keep up the good work.

markswihart

I believe that there is someone making a fiberglass hull for the froggy-sub you're talking about, go to rcnavalcombat and sniff around there. I've got an I-400 in the works (1/96 scale) an will be sending a plug to a builder so that they can make fiberglass hulls for the hobby.

herrmill

Loyalhanna is to release a 1/72 Surcouf this year while Caswell is currently working on their M1 mold in the same scale.

Personally, I don't partake in warship combat but am interested in either model if the detail is good enough for in my collection.

Caesarian

Hm that got me thinking, i remember reading something about a u-boat that was being modified to fire V-1 cruise missiles. Would it be possible to attatch some kind of rudimentary slingshot to the top of a sub, and then have it launch bombs? or are explosives not allowed? When i mean bombs of course i mean some potassium wrapped in a plastic shell with a mechanism to open a little hole on impact. But even if bombs aren't allowed, why not be creative? maybe some kind of sticky material that would block the guns and prevent powerful shots, or are weapons supposed to be semi-realistic?