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60SP failure under warranty

Old 08-26-2009, 06:35 PM
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Katman
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Default 60SP failure under warranty

Unfortunately my RCV 60SP installed in a H9 Mustang PTS has failed(gladly on the ground adjusting - and under warranty). RCV no longer does warranty work in the states, so it had to be sent all the way to England(from Florida USA) about a wk ago to the tune of over $30. [:@] This is not the first but second time it had to be sent off. The first was to BJ's because it obviously WASN'T tested sufficiently at RCV. It refused to run reliable enough to fly whatever the carb adjusting. BJ's even had to machine the carb flange smooth. Afterwards for most part ran very good!

It was purchased new Dec '07, has say 25 - 30 flights tops. Of the the 2 1/2 gallons thru it, a good bit was run-in. Last time was running ok, though i suspected crank bearing play had increased. I was doing ground adjusting after installing a Weston plug i was told would improve operability(idle). When i shut it down, it locked up VERY firmly in the compression bump when i tried turning it over by hand. After cooling, it began moving a little more freely but did lockup again in same spot. Definitely metal to metal, so that was that. I suspect a crank bearing failure, which may have also damaged other parts. There has been several reports of premature bearing failures.

From the getgo I've been enthusiastic about the RCV and its unique design/benefits. Right now am obviously a bit frustrated and wishing i just said to heck w/scale appearance and "got a Saito"! lol For awhile there, once i FINALLY got the HS set right mine ran great except for having to set the idle in the 2000rpm area to prevent a stall on landing after good and hot. The fact the carb seems sub-par quality w/the sloppy HS needle adjustment wore thin with me, as so much effort is spent just trying to get it right. Once you think you're close, one-click richer dumps fuel sending it diving from 5600 to 4000 rpm....then 2 clicks lean from that it could starve for fuel. Sometimes no rhyme or reason...go figure!

After sending an email to RCV Weston, I did actually receive a lengthy phone call all the way from UK(!!!) that day or next by a very nice man named Alan regarding my issue. So their superlative customer service seems very intact. We shall see, and i will be sure to report back the end result. Meanwhile, back to my E-flite P-38 is fine by me...

Katman
Old 08-27-2009, 12:39 PM
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Michael211
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Default RE: 60SP failure under warranty

Well that suxs... either you unfortunately just got a dud engine (it happens sometimes to everybody I swear no matter the model or manufacturer), or perhaps there wasn't enough airflow thru the engine cowling on your PTS Mustang (I presume you used a new "uncut" cowling and cut your own vent area out from the underside of it?).

Anyways, please be sure to come back and post updates as you learn more. My 90SP's carb tuned right up and it runs very reliably with an ultra slow idle (so slow you can actually make out the prop blades going round-n-round!).

Hey also, what fuel were you using in your 60SP? I only use CoolPower 10% plane fuel in my 90SP and it seems to thrive on the stuff. Full synthetic so no messy caster oil residue on the muffler/engine. I highly recommend it.

- Michael
Old 08-28-2009, 12:28 AM
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Katman
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Default RE: 60SP failure under warranty

Hi Michael,

These motors tend to run hotter, but i did alot of "airflow engineering" on the cowl and never had cooling issues in the air really. Maybe borderline if you flew middle of a hot FL summer day so i didn't. Only time it would start getting warm would be cowled on the ground, so i never did testing w/cowl on. Matter of fact pretty hot on ground without. Alan at WestonRCV strangely said an owner flying cowl-less and complaining of overheating was told to cowl it w/baffle and he heard no more complaints. These motors need to be in the air w/baffle to cool.

Alan had high praise for the 90. The 60 too. He said w/his Weston plug he's had them idle down to 900rpm! What about you? Lowest i ever got mine with it was an inconsistent 1400. Other times it'd idle a rock steady 1500. Someone on these forums familar w/RCV's early on said carb issues started when they switched from an established carb "brand" to what amounts to cheap Chinese. The RCV is a great design but I think that issue is killing them being a success in my opinion. I don't get it, the machining of the head/cylinder has to be very precise yet they're allowing cheap carbs to be used? Both carbs i have are very sloppy(the spare they sent me to try too).

I'm undecided on fuel really. My latest is Coolpower 10% too. Like it but thinking of going back to Omega despite mess. I think it does run cooler and offers more protection. Strangely can also gets up to the range of 30% better fuel efficiency! Mine ran over 1 hr on a 11oz tank once during run-in. Testing at typical flying throttle settings went near 40 min. With Coolpower 10%, the limit was about 28-30 min! Coolpower 15% was lower 20's. Alan KNOWS motors and speculated it could be Omega w/castor may have lower oil content therefore higher methanol = lower throttle settings for same power. About as sensible as i've heard yet. He also confirmed RCV lower fuel use has alot to with the efficient port design vs poppet valves.
What is your 90SP in and what kind of flight times do you get? Am guessing alot better than a Saito 82! Lucky you on the carb - glad it is working well!
Yes, I'll definitely be posting what happens w/my RCV...if all goes well the 90 was a likely next choice for a project(only reason i got the 60 is 90 wouldn't fit!)...

Katman
Old 08-28-2009, 12:19 PM
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Michael211
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Default RE: 60SP failure under warranty

My 90SP I've tacked running the break-in prop down to a very smooth consistent 1400 RPM idle... going down to 1200 RPM it starts to get a bit iffy. Swinging an 18" prop at 1400 RPM though is VERY slow in appearance and more than adequate.

While I've never timed it to the second or anything, on a 14 oz tank of fuel this 90SP will run mid throttle for close to 45 minutes. The fuel economy is really amazing on this thing! I've only run Coolpower 10% in my engine since the very 1st break-in run where I'd borrowed some 10 oz of caster based fuel from a fellow club member (fearing to use my full synthetic fuel as it was clearly stated in the RCV manual to use caster oil based fuel only at that time). My engine runs cooler and so much cleaner on the full synthetic there's just no comparison.

I bought my 90SP from HobbyBarn.com Feb 2008, and I find no fault with the carb on it. It tunes up easily and doesn't seem to have any loosness... my only problem to date was the original muffler started falling apart very early on in the break-in process. RCV promptly replaced it with a much better muffler which hasn't given me any further problems. I very much like and recommend this engine to friends and fellow modellers!

Did I read correctly that RCV engine repairs are no longer made in the USA? Or was that only warranty repairs that are requiring shipment back to the manufacturer now? That suxs either way. []

I too had a H9 PTS Mustang for a few years (ran an OS 46 SF engine in it). It was a very nice flying plane, but I finally sold it and moved up to 60 sized Mustangs so I could have the retract landing gear (LADO'S) and more scale-like proportions. The 40 sized PTS Mustang is an excellant trainer (with all the training gizmos on it) and 1st low-wing model (which was why I had bought one to begin with). Also 60 sized airplanes it turns out fit my life better... easier to see in the air, fly better, and still fit in my vehicle and can go down the hallway in my home to the back room where I store all my birds.

- Michael
Old 08-30-2009, 10:21 AM
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Katman
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Default RE: 60SP failure under warranty

Hey Michael,
that's interesting along w/some others you're saying it runs cooler on Coolpower. That wasn't my impression - the manual even states castor "promotes cooling". Maybe it had to do w/other conditions w/mine though. It is definitely cleaner!!!

That's funny, mine came from Hobby Barn Dec '07. I guess we all win some/lose some. You've had great luck w/the carb but the muffler falling apart unlike mine. But BJ's doing "fix" on mine may be why. Weston has very cool Genesis in-cowl mufflers for RCV's i'd suggest looking into - though can't find a price. Alan said they're a big improvement on stock w/more power.l
Yes, warranty work is no longer authorized at BJ's due to some issues - it'd have to be sent to UK. Sounds like they're trying to make up for the trouble though, which is a good thing. To look at getting parts you've got to go on Weston and pricing is confusing being in pounds. It looks like spare parts have gone up! []

When Eflite came out w/the P-38 i had to have one, otherwise wanted a larger Mustang for the exact reasons as yours. The PTS is a great plane but definitely not scale, and a P-51 without retracts just isn't right! The P-38 kept it out of the budget, but NO regrets there! Looks it was best i held out. The NEW H9 60 size Mustang is finally how i want it, and the TF is awesome too. About time H9 had decent retracts, appear to have edge over TF 60. Hopefully a review will appear on the H9 soon. Now i want to know if the 90SP would be enough motor for one.
Is that what your 90 is in???

Katman
Old 09-02-2009, 08:53 AM
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Katman
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Default RE: 60SP failure under warranty

UPDATE:
Steve at Weston RCV sent me an email 9/1 (same day it must've arrived) that it was all done -stripped and cleaned too. It did end up being crankshaft bearing failure(my suspicions were right). Said it caused no other damage. Also said HS needle O-ring was very hard and could cause those mixture issues. They replaced that, along w/both crank bearings, the intake manifold seal, and crank carrier seal. Got it back to turning an APC 16 x12 at 5600 rpm. Said it would be shipped out today. So far so good. Will post once it arrives, and what is included on return.

Katman
Old 09-02-2009, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: 60SP failure under warranty

Now i want to know if the 90SP would be enough motor for one.
Should be more than enough motor for it... a guy at our flying field was flying a 60 sized Mustang on an older OS .61 engine this past weekend and it came off the runway in less than 20 feet and actually flew entirely too fast at WOT. These 60 sized Mustang ARF's are oh so light... it doesn't take alot to fly them.

I'm still working on mine actually. I got the LADO retracts in for it, and have a pair of Robart Robo-Struts I need to figure out how to install. Details details details... and I'm working on 60 sized heli mechanics for an Airwolf fuselage I have here also. My planes have kinda been a lower priority to that Airwolf project actually. Sorry.

- Michael
Old 10-02-2009, 09:49 AM
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Katman
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Default RE: 60SP failure under warranty

Just an update on my 60SP...

All in all the whole process took just over a mth. Though I've not tested it yet, for the most part appears Weston did a good job. They did turn it around next day, but then it took even longer to return(about 2 wks).
Because it was a challenge getting my muffler/custom extension to stop turning from vibration and burning my cowl, i sent it in a larger box requesting NOT to remove it from the 60SP if at all possible. They did anyways. I haven't remounted it yet but hope i can get it secured again. Last time i succeeded by cranking it down so tight i thought i might STRIP it.
They also returned it w/the carb HS pointed up. In my setup, the carb must be installed HS needle down to clear the cowl. Hopefully flipping it back won't make it run different. In addition to replacing both crank bearings, they replaced HS needle o-ring, the carb manifold gasket, and top crankshaft cover gasket. This must be why the carb got flipped.

Included in the returned box were complimentary bottles of afterrun oil, CA remover, and something called Rhino glue. These were appreciated, but personally I'd rather have spares applicable to my 60SP like the starter keys/glow plugs(or a crank bearing!) it tends to go thru. Particularly since the warranty expires in Dec, and warranty on the major work done wasn't mentioned.
I still really like the unique advantages of the RCV, but unless things go smoothly getting it adjusted and back in the air it's doubtful I'll buy another. One issue they need to rectify is having a service center in the US. Since it cost over $30 to ship, fact is it would've been cheaper to buy/replace the crank bearings myself. And get familar w/working on it in the process.
Because the carb HS adjust seems so temperamental, I did send an email to ask Steve(the mechanic) what the test conditions were to help me figure how much if any carb adjustment may be needed here in humid FL. They've never answered.
I will be sure to re-post once i get past the ordeal of remounting it back on my Mustang and hopefully in the air shortly...

Katman

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