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Debonair Engine

Old 02-28-2005, 08:55 AM
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Bryan H.
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Default Debonair Engine

On Sttb web site the Deb. uses a .46 OS engine, do you think if I build to specifications, that I may get away with a .40? They're a little cheaper is all I'm thinking.
Also, In the latest Tower sale flyer they have GMS .47 with remote NV, and a Tigre .45 for $69.00, and a O.S. 46 LA (no bearings) for $55, plus I can get $20 off for being a new customer. Which would be the better engine for my first plane?

In advance, thanks for your time.

Bryan
Old 02-28-2005, 09:24 AM
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cosmospho
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Go for the OS or Thunder Tiger. Since you new at this OS and TT engines give you less hassles. Other engines are great and wonderful have a GMS and Super Tigre but they a bit more twitchy and can have leaks etc... New guy stick to OS and Thunder Tiger...... The Deb does fly with .40 but once again, to learn and have more confidence I would use a .46. It all depends on how windy it is, how heavy your Deb is etc.... Stick to the specs, get someone to help you start and HAVE FUN...

keep em flying,
CosmosPho
Old 02-28-2005, 12:22 PM
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KyFBCGuy
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I had the same deliema with mine when i was building it.

Decided on the Thunder Tiger .46 Pro. Put this engine in it...

It will Haul a Deb around like there is no tomorrow. I turn a 11x5 on it and it has all the power
it needs to do just about anything you want to do with a trainer. Mild aerobatics are no problem.
Even some not so mild, if you dare with the rubberband wing hold downs.

It is a easy engine to tune and set up, reliable starting. pleanty of power.
I have an Evolution .46 to try on another plane too, but i cant comment on it yet
as i havent even moved it out of the box, accept for the occasional fondle...

Jeff
Old 02-28-2005, 01:30 PM
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FrankC29
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Stay away from the O.S. .46LA, I hear from multiple sources that this engine is seriously lacking in power compared to other .46 engines. If cost is of upmost importance, try the Thunder Tiger .42 GP, as it is reported to be reliable and noticably more powerful than a O.S. .40LA, and it's quite cheap. Otherwise, if you can swing it, I would seriously suggest the Thunder Tiger .46 Pro., the best value out there is this size, period, and you will have all the power you need, and when you decide to upgrade to a sport ship you will be well served.
Old 02-28-2005, 08:17 PM
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acam37
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I second the LA.46. That was my very first engine and I could never keep it running in the air.I sold it to a fellow club member and he dead sticks it almost every flight. Your best bet is to buy the best engine you can afford because you will wind up putting it on a lot of different planes. I will build a spad and fly it a few times and then build a different plane. I just pull out my engine and radio gear and put it in my next project.
Old 02-28-2005, 08:35 PM
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lecrote
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Go with TT46 pro all the way

I love this engine

Dan
Old 02-28-2005, 08:49 PM
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LostMyPlane
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

If you have someone that knows how to break in an engine and want to save some money. I don't think there is a better engine then the Super Tiger 45. I agree that they must be broken in more then a OS, but at the savings of the ST you can't go wrong.

Actually there not that hard to break in and setup. Start the motor, lean it out till it justs breaks out of a 4 stroke into a clean 2 stroke. Run 3 or 4 tanks through. Set high speed needle valve then the low. Enjoy engine for years to come.
Old 03-01-2005, 04:14 AM
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cosmospho
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I have to agree with the lack of power from the LA series compared to the TT, but have a OS LA 46 and never in its 3 yr history had a deadstick landing.... But as in all things, some of us get unlucky .... But if money is no object go for the TT 46 Pro. Have 2 and would love a third, only ran out of time to build more planes and money to buy more rc and servos.

Have a super tigre .90 ringed and that is a bas**** to break in [:'(] after that its a lovely engine.... After about 10 tanks I did what most people do on these engines, kept it full revs for a whole tank and smoked the whole neighbourhood..... After that its a beauty...

Thats why I said, want an easy life get TT or OS. Other engines have some other peculiarities which will bother you until you get used to it.

have fun,
CosmosPho
Old 03-01-2005, 09:19 AM
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FrankC29
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I've tried many different brands and sizes over the past 4 years, and if there is a brand out there that consistently runs great out of the box without any headaches, or tricks to know, etc. etc. etc, it's O.S. The FX (AX) line is a thing of beauty! TT is a close second, and it's price IMO makes it tough to ignore, thus the deserved popularity of the TT46. For 4-stroke, I will give Saito the same compliment I give O.S. Perfect out of the box. When it comes to glow engines, sticking with these 3 brans is not a dumb thing to do. Not to say there aren't other fine engines out there, and in some sizes it makes sense to go for them, for instance when it comes to a .60 size engine, I am in love with the Tower .75. For 1/2a, the Norvel .074 is king of the hill. But O.S. just has a consistent blend of performance and reliability across their whole line that I can't see other brands match. Besides the LA series, LOL. The best experience I've had in each size range:

1/2a - Norvel .074
.15 - O.S. .15LA (it's one of the exceptions to the rule, this LA has good power and reliability)
.25 - O.S. .25fx (I will never bother with another .25, this one just plain rules)
.30 - TT .36 Pro (super powerful and reliable with a good price, and just as powerful as the overpriced O.S. .32sx)
.40 - For me, this size is about saving money, in which case the TT .42GP. For others it's about competetion I know.
.46 - O.S. .46FX or AX if price is not a big concern, it's the best. However the TT46 is so close that it's price puts it on top.
.60 - Tower .75!
.90 - Haven't owned one yet
1.00+ - The O.S. 1.60 FX is incredible. It's as easy to run and tune as a smaller engine. Needed no pump for me. Unbelievable power and transistion. Why did I sell it???

4-stroke

.46 size equivalent - Saito .72!! You get almost the power of the YS .63 without any of the whopping headaches.
.25 size equivalent - Saito .40!! Mounts and weighs the same as a .25 2s, much more torque.

Brands that I would tell a beginner to avoid.

MDS- Run!!! Run for the hills! How do they stay in business?
Norvel .15 - .40 - The .25 especially is quite powerful, yes, but Norvels are just too finicky and tempermental for my taste. The .40 was released with great fanfare, but it was a dissapointment, it has the Norvel temperment without the Norvel power, so what's the point?
Supertigre- I don't like the carbs, and I don't like spending a weekend breaking an engine in. Heavy. However I'm tempted to pick up a .51 one day.
GMS 47- I might get some flack for this one, especially since I've never owned one, but I have witnessed enough first hand and read enough accounts to convince me that this engine is not in the same league as the OS46 and TT46.

Am I still talking? OK that's enough.
Old 03-02-2005, 06:50 PM
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Captain351
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I have to agree with the TT Pro .46 as a definite yes. I have never seen one that didn't run perfectly.

I have seen a few others with GMS .47's that didn't run properly but I have always been able to adjust the engine myself and make it run correctly. These engines seem to be all over the place as far as how they are adjusted when you take them out of the box but if you are experienced at adjusting a glow engine you will think they are worth the money.
Old 03-05-2005, 11:50 AM
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smosher9
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I have both the TT46 Pro and the GMS 47. The TT start easy and idles consistently. The GMS
is finicky to get running well and if your not familiar with tuning these engines then the GMS will frustrate you to no end. There are several web sites about how to tune and tweak the GMS engines. Once they are running well then they appear to have a bit more power than the TT but
on the DEB the TT would be my 1st choice. Maybe because this was my 1st plane and I had no trouble with the TT and it has Plenty of power to haul the Deb around. I solo'd with the DEB. I was alot like Frank and his web site tells the story that alot of Us go through, I could be his twin. I have never regretted going with the Deb and the TT. The Deb can take one helluva beating and still fly predictably. My 2nd plane was the dominator with the GMS 47. I had to run several tanks of fuel through it before I would feel comfortable with putting the Dom in the air. The TT though I could of put into the air on the 1st tank.

Spend the extra money on the TT and it will serve you well.

Steve
Old 03-06-2005, 10:04 AM
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Smooth Spanky
 
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Great thread guys, thanks for the info.

I don't have experience with the OS .46LA, but I did recently finish a Deb with an OS .40LA. I don't recommend this engine at all. Besides being horribly underpowered for the Deb, it failed during flight on roughly half of the 10 flights I had on this plane. Unfortunately the last dead-stick occurred during a very low-level banked turn, causing the plane to nose-in at high speed like a lawn dart. Fuse was fractured in about 3 places (wing undamaged). Mind you, I was very careful to properly break-in this engine as well.

I have an older OS .40 with ball-bearings (can't remember model), which has been fantastic, but I will never own or use an LA again, especially after learning that others have had similar problems. [:@]

After reading this thread I've ordered a Thunder Tiger .46. Again, thanks for the info!

Smooth
Old 03-06-2005, 09:19 PM
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I.C.O.N.
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Make sure you come back with the report.

I have been reading this one with great interest.

I like the .46 size engine for 5-6lb planes that seem to fit the mold of most SPAD plans.

I will be getting my second motor within the next month or so.

looking for some input.... ....got a lot of it here.
Old 03-07-2005, 09:08 AM
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Bryan H.
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I ended up getting the SuperTigre .45. I'll take Cosmos advice and break it in well. I'm still working on the plane. I got the wing together yesterday afternoon, so in the evenings this week I'll work on the fuse. The only gutter pipe I came accross was the brown stuff, So she will be aptly name "Flying Turd". I still have to get a radio system, I'm looking out for a good deal on a system here on the marketplace and on Ebay.

Thanks for all your advice
Bryan
Old 03-07-2005, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

BryanH:
Since I'm in the process of building my 2nd Deb fuselage (because of the dang 0S .40 LA!), I can help you avoid the 'turd'. I also have the brown pvc pipe, but I painted it with several coats of white then seveal coats of yellow. It came out great! I'm using a spray paint called 'Fusion' which I believe is made by Krylon. I'm told it's also fuel proof...we'll see.

I cut out all the holes, etc, before painting. I'll send a finished pic if the thing turns out decent.

Regards,
SS
Old 06-12-2005, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

It has been a couple of months since your post so I have to ask, is the Fusion spray paint fuel proof? Let us know since they have lots of great colors in Krylon Fusion.

In answer to the original question, I think the Evolution 46 is an ideal engine for the Deb. I'm delighted with it in all respects and it hauls the Deb around with authority. I'm so impressed with the Evolution I may be purchasing another soon.

I have a MDS 46 in another plane and it is a strong, good running engine too. A little bit temperamental. But I favor the Evo 46 more.
Old 06-13-2005, 07:51 AM
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Bryan H.
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I went to Lowe's in town, and apparently they don't carry the Krylon name. But Rustoleum has a plastic primer for use with regular spray paint. Your supposed to put a thin layer with not much concern about it being even or completely covering the surface, then I topped it with Krylon gloss white. They said maximum bond is acheived 5-7 days, it was probably 2 weeks before I completed the plane and flew for the first time. It's had several flights and even more hits and the paint is sticking fine, even with the fuselage flexing and denting on impact the paint is sticking well.

Also back to the engine, the Supre Tigre 45 was a great engine choice, It's started easily every time, and it runs well without me being very finicky about tuning it.
Old 06-20-2005, 08:27 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I built debonair ,used heavy nicad batteried(sub c size) ,12 oz tank and os 40 la blue head.I think it weight about 10 pounds which is over weight for the debonair.It flown but just....

I was learning,i was crashing like there is no tommorow and did learn to fly finally.

If i was you i'd buy cheapest engine ,learn to fly Then when Iam confident,I'd buy me a good .60 size and build another wing(no dihedral with symetrical foil) and keep on flying that debonair.
That what i would do.
Old 06-20-2005, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Oh yeah.
I was foolish enough to pain my spad with walmart paint.It seemed to hold up when i tested on the board.But when i started flying my debonair it (paint) started to run.I had a silver painted wing .The paint started mesing up everything,my garage,the bed of my truck,seats,pants,tools,hands of my friends as well
If i had to do it over again i would go print sho and buy some vinyl tape.Then cut it out with scisors and apply.
Old 06-21-2005, 03:12 PM
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Bryan H.
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Just some notes to anyone researching Debs before they get ready to build:

I made mine exactly as planned.

Sure the Downspout was hard to find, but I used what resources I had. Heck, even if you pay to have it delivered it is so worth it, you wouldn't beleive how easy it is to work with and what abuse it will take.

I didn't do any lightening to the fuse. Hell, I couldn't even guess how much it weighs, but you know what, It doesn't matter 'cause I followed the plans.

The most adventurous I got with experimenting with the design was changing from trike landing gear to a tail-dragger. This was only AFTER it was a proven flier, with a few flights under it's belt.



Old 06-21-2005, 04:49 PM
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winger1955
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I have used the Fusion paint on two Deb wings. The fuel has deterioated the paint on both wings. Not horrible, but don't expect it to last like a fuel prooof paint. Each time I clean the wings, after flying, paint comes off in the areas subjected to fuel.

Just my experience
Old 06-22-2005, 12:40 PM
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kbear
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

I've gotten to were I only paint out toward the wing tips. My other favorites are aluminiun duct tape and colored electrical tape. I've also seen colored packing tape but didn't buy any at the time. I have also used colored duct tape, but keep it to a minimum as it's very heavy.
Old 06-22-2005, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Engine

Mitty, I thought you were only interested in scratch built gas ignition, what are you doing talking about SPAD stuff? FYI, I got my PIC/CDI ignition humming and I' selling some modules to fellow R/C'ers.

The Debomair is a sweet plane, I fly the heck out of mine. I've had three bad crashes and it still survives!

I'm in the process of scaling up the Deb to take my Ryobi 31 cc gasser. I'm starting with a 2X size and seeing how the weight goes. I got some 5" vinyl fence post for starters. It is sure heavy stuff, I may have to Swiss it to lighten. Right now DoubleDeb is just on the drawing board, but when I return from my trip to AZ I'm going to start cutting plastic.

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