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Debonair Power Question

Old 01-07-2009, 10:23 AM
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jib
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Default Debonair Power Question

I'm about half way through my Deb build and the TT PRO-46 that was destined for this plane may not be available anymore. While the build sheet calls for a 46, I’m thinking about using a sweet running TT GP-42 (bushing engine). It is currently powering our UltraStick40 quite nicely, using a 11x5 prop.

The UltraStick weighs just under five pounds and the Deb should go 6+ (I’m guessing).

I’ve taken the precaution of building the wing completely flat bottom, for maximum lift and may swiss-cheese the US 2.5 inch Gutter pipe fuselage with a hole saw to lighten it, if required. The rest of the plane is pretty stock, except that it will be a tail dragger.

Is it realistic to expect that the GP-42 will haul the Deb around OK? I’m not looking for a sports flyer here. The Deb is going to be purely a trainer for now. No aerobatics, etc., just takeoff, land, and learn to fly. We have the Ultrastick, a SPA3DT, and a nearly rebuilt 4*40 for fun.

Do I need to find another engine or do you think that GP-42 might be able to do the job? It’s currently set up to run on 15% nitro and has plenty of (but not excessive) power for the UltraStick.

I hope to attempt a maiden in the next week or two, but if the GP-42 is obviously incapable, it would be nice to know now, rather than taxi around the field, trying to get it airborne.

Thoughts?

Jack

EDIT: Corrected prop size from 11x3 to 11x5
Old 01-07-2009, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

I did a deb for another club member and he had a OS 40LA on his. it did fly and it was perfect for a trainer. it did take a while to get rolling to lift off. I would try it at least. the LA is about the same as the 42.
Old 01-07-2009, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Excellent!

I've also decided, since flexing the ailerons, that a servo in each wing will be far superior to a single center mounted servo. I love the fact that this change will take me an hour to make, whereas the same change on my 4*40 rebuild took a few evenings to complete.

Jack
Old 01-07-2009, 12:34 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Couple evenings in SPAD time is a couple planes. The 42 will handle the Debonair fine. It won't be overpowered, but it flew the one I had just fine.
Old 01-07-2009, 12:55 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Clean,

Thanks for the response on the engine. Your experience, and Draftman's, help set my mind at ease.

Yeah, SPAD's are way faster (and cheaper) to build, but for some of us with kids and other outside activities even SPAD time can stretch out. <frown> But I'm getting there.

Thanks again,

Jack
Old 01-07-2009, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

yes, a servo on each aileron is a must. it also gets the single servo out of the way for the rubber bands. I do dual servos on every plane I build. as far as build times? there is a double sided tape that is used in automotive body pieces that is great. with this technique, a dogfighter wing can be made in ten minutes and the rest of the plane can be built in an hour. maybe less. how is that for a fast build?
Old 01-07-2009, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Can you tell us more about the " double sided tape that is used in automotive body" Perhaps...the manufacturer; model/style number.???. Where to get it ? Thanks Rich
Old 01-07-2009, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

> double sided tape that is used in automotive body pieces

This is used instead of CA?

The rigging I used to keep the bottom of the wing flat, while glueing the back of the wing to the top of the aileron was effective, but calling it amusing would be an understatement. Bar clamps, a four foot level, steel bar stock and a 5 gallon bucket half filled with water; and no, I didn't crush any coroplast. <LOL>

Jack
Old 01-07-2009, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

I still use the CA. I like the CA method. I tried the tape once but the tape is real pricey, its made by 3m, I cant remember the part number. its grey and 1/2" wide and it is used to attach trim pieces on car bodys so its a high stick material. once you put two pieces of coro together, its done any you cant pull it apart. Jib, how do you score the leading edge of the wing? I found on a 4mm wing, I dont do much of those anymore, I use a laminate trimmer router and a 1/4" round tipped bit and rout out a groove. it leaves the outer skin and gets rid of the flutes. for a wing the groove needs to be 5/16" wide. then the wing will fold over nicely with very little spring back. also when you symetrical wings the leading edge holddown is easier. I use the RNAF method or a full 2mm wing.
Old 01-07-2009, 06:08 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

OK..I'll bite.. I did a search and found out that the " RNAF method " means 4 mill coro on the bottom; 2 mill on the top, and a single spar. What the heck does RNAF stand for? Does the RNAF method differ appreciably from the "standard score, bend and fold" method shown on SPAD to the Bones plans?? thanks. Rich
Old 01-07-2009, 06:24 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

The tape might be very nice for the “dicey” joints, like the rear of the wing to the top of an aileron.

I creased the LE the hard way <grin>, no router, and I have only built with 4mm so far. I need to find some 2mm too

My son and I scored the inside of the LE with a large screwdriver, crushing the inner surface down. I folded each wing side and put them under a heavy box for a few days. When I pulled them back out, they unfolded less than 30 degrees.

To get my wing bottom virtually flat, I decided I needed to hold the LE down, while bonding the rear of the wing to the aileron. I slipped a 2x1/8 steel flat inside the wing, up against the LE, gently clamped the steel to the table, and then built the wing. The tricky part was the second half of the wing, because the existing half wing interfered with the steel flat. I cut a two flute wide slot up near the LE of the bottom of the completed wing. This allowed the steel flat to exit through the existing wing and clamp down the second side of the wing. The small hole will be under the wing wrap and will be resting on the fuselage, so I doubt there will be any loss of strength implications.

The final wing is nearly flat on each side of the bottom. Once everyone is flying well, I’ll consider building a symmetrical wing with zero or near zero dihedral, for this plane. I didn't realize just how much dihedral 5° really was.

Jack
Old 01-07-2009, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

RNAF is for, dont laugh, "RedNeck Air Foil" I didnt make it up. It is a great way to do a nice wing, the 2mil just rolls across the top and it reduces the weight. Harbor sales is a geat place to get 2mm. it just has to be cut for shipping
Old 01-07-2009, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

OK Living in Texas, I can fully understand the RN part of the name.... Ha Ha.... How does the 2 mil join or lap over the 4 mil? Is there an illustration on the net someplace, similar to the fine plans/pictures at SPAD to the Bone????
Old 01-07-2009, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

yes there are details on that on spad to the bone, look at the daspadstick plans or DPS, its under the classic heading and under the .40 size listing. t goes into full detail on that type of construction. basicly the 2mm overlaps about an inch under the 4mm, then about a 1/4" away is were the leading ede fold starts
Old 01-09-2009, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

http://www.spadtothebone.com/SPAD/Da...asstick12.html

Red Neck Air Force
Old 01-09-2009, 06:24 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Thanks....got it, copied and printed it, too. I am always worried that somehow the old SPAD to the Bone site will disappear some day...and I won't have access to their well done instructions. Rich
Old 01-09-2009, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

I have my favorite plans burned and printed just in case something happens....
Old 01-10-2009, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Man I hope that never happens, there are a few changes since the version I put up so I wouldn't be able to see it as is, just as was.
Old 03-15-2009, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

My first spad build was a Deb.The weight was also a issue the thick downspout pipe so I did swiss cheese it and the yard sticks were heavy.The thing was about 8 lbs so I put a 60 size webra on it and.the solo,Well at full throttle would only taxi around the field.Thats all,could not build up any speed on the grass.I still have the fuze but the plane never got into the air.All i can say is keep it light.
Old 03-15-2009, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Well, my Deb was finally finished and flies fine now. She has a OS .46 ax and doesn't need more than half throttle to tool around. I did a few loops the other day and am now building another SPAD for my .28 TT. SPADS are for me! Rich
Old 03-15-2009, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Congrats on the maiden of the deb!. Yes spads are great for building and flying, what are you gona put that 28 in???
Old 03-15-2009, 10:24 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Congrats on the maiden of the deb!. Yes spads are great for building and flying, what are you gona put that 28 in???
Old 03-16-2009, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

Well, I originally built Gutter Gal. She was a scaled down SPAD STIK variation for the .28 TT., She survived a few flights at my shaky hands. However, I found that she shattered easily. Especially when I tried a 90 degree turn with no room for error. Ha ha. Her fuse was made out of very light weight plastic gutter downspout. Not sturdy enough for my inexperienced hands.

Last week, I came across a 4x8 discarded 4 mil. Coro sign lying by the side of the road.

Viola!! We now have - Dumpster Dora Same wing; Same tail feathers and engine as Gutter Gal. Her new fuse was built from the discarded sign. I didn't actually go into a dumpster to get it...but.... the 4x8 was free....
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

Old 03-16-2009, 06:42 PM
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How does one post a picture here? A search of both the FAQ and of "all forums" elicited no response that I can find.
thanks Rich
Old 03-16-2009, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: Debonair Power Question

wow, the dumpster dora is awesome! that looks so cool!, have you flown it yet?

as far as photos, dont use the quick reply. at the bottom of the regular reply or posting, you will see th add photo button, then go from there. you dont have to host the photos or anything like that.

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