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Warbird racing.........glow or gas?

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Warbird racing.........glow or gas?

Old 12-21-2014, 01:13 PM
  #126  
MFLOOD3800
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I dont need a wing "table", but in this championship race there will be limits, it will not be a unregulated race. I have put the wing area minimums for you. I suggested propping them down, then Shawn did as well, and I think you guys are already doing this to a point in rcpro. Why not look at the correct prop to keep speeds in line with the ave speeds needed. Im not saying prop it down so much you have to stick it on the poles to come close. But there is no way you need to run the speeds you guys are now in the 2 slow classes. You guys are way too fast already there. Gold is good as is. Use your stuff there. So its 2 classes you need to get me info on. I will then verify those numbers with some elec guys I know to verfiy anticipated speeds.
Maybe guys would argue with me as I dont fly the slower classes, but as far as Bronze, wouldnt 100 MPH do? And in Silver 130 Mph? I would think a prop selection and motor size in the wing area I put out for you would be all that is needed?
Old 12-21-2014, 01:54 PM
  #127  
speedracerntrixie
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I think it should be fairly easy to calculate speed of an electric. Once voltage and KV is established. A brushless motor will for the most part turn the same RPM with or without a prop. The only variable will be the current being consumed. Simply take that rpm that results from voltage and KV and figure out what pitch is required to get to desired speed. Bronze needs about 100 mph so figure the pitch needed to run 110-115 mph. Silver needs around 130mph so figure pitch to run 140-145mph.
Old 12-21-2014, 05:28 PM
  #128  
andyy
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I wish it was that easy to just go by KV and battery but in our experience it doesn't work. We have used motors that by the numbers should have worked but either were too slow and have had some that were faster than the numbers would suggest. How do you regulate the bronze and silver classes for fuel planes? I haven't seen the wing chart so I don't know how you have done that for fuel planes. You also have to factor in the speed loss in the corners due to the high weight of the electric planes. It is always better for us to prop the planes down as far as we can and still be competitive to save the wear and tear on the expensive battery's we use. I wish there was a good solution for some kind of rule but I don't know how to go about it. I think one of the biggest problems is there are so many motor choices with electrics and more coming out every day. To run gold speeds the fuel guys only have a few to choose from electrics have lots of them. The technology is so new things are changing every day.
Old 12-21-2014, 07:04 PM
  #129  
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Andy, I knew it would be something easier said then done but still feel that it can be done. As far as what our choices are in gold there really is only one, the 115. For silver the guys are running mostly the 110 on draggy airplanes. I actually did well speed wise with a self designed Macchi running a Rossi .45 in silver. Right now the majority of guys in bronze are running a T-34 with either a OS 46 or 55. The short story is that guys are building the airplanes to fly the time slot. IMO speed is not the issue here. If you want to win you need to stay above the breakout. I'm going to have to play the stick in the mud again and say that my personal issue is that there is no real danger of a E powered airplane failing to start. With glow there is always that elephant there that comes up and steps on us. That is where the hard sell is for me, knowing that I could flood, have a bad plug, set too lean and spit a prop or have an issue with my starter. Unless I'm not seeing something this would give the E guys a clear consistency edge. I know you guys have other issues but getting started will never be one of them.
Old 12-21-2014, 08:13 PM
  #130  
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You obviously haven't flown many high performance electric planes. I personally have had my motor burn up three times let alone the other problems we have ESCs burn up, batteries destroyed etc. We still have all of the airframe issues that happen also like everyone else. Since our planes are heavy they get a lot of wear and tear from the extra weight. Landing gear damage has been one of the big problems also. I guarantee we spend more time working on our planes between heats trying to make sure our planes are ready than anyone else in the pits. If you come watch us race it is definitely much harder to race an electric plane than a fuel plane and we have just as many problems as the fuel guys.

If someone has a problem getting their plane started why would it matter who is flying against them in that heat. If the electrics are not there then it would be fuel plane anyway.
Old 12-21-2014, 08:52 PM
  #131  
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Andy have you burned motors and ESCs on the ground when arming the airplane or did those things happen in the air? As far as your airplanes being heavy, I will repeat. Eventually you guys will sort that out if not then it's self inflicted. Yes if I fail to start the other guys will still beat me but they are at risk of the same occurrences so its a level playing field as far as that is concerned.
Old 12-21-2014, 10:08 PM
  #132  
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Burning up motors or speed controls on the ground then you guys are not doing things correctly.
Old 12-22-2014, 05:00 AM
  #133  
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Yes I did burn up the motors in the air and that put me out of the race completely. Electronics are not perfect we have had speed controls that worked for many flights burn up for no reason when you plug in the batteries among other problems. I don't care what you are flying some unforeseen problems come up.

You just said our heavy planes are self inflected. Well as I see it your starting problems are also. Change your glow plug, test your starter, make sure your mixture is right etc. WE all have some bad luck at times and cant get in the air whether it is a fuel plane or electric.

You obviously don't like electric planes and I will probably never change your mind. I am sorry if that bothers you but I really like the challenge of overcoming the problems and want to keep flying them. I have nothing against fuel planes I just would rather fly electric.
Old 12-22-2014, 08:15 AM
  #134  
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Andy, I have nothing against electrics, in fact I was flying electrics as far back as '84 and was one of the first guys flying electric helicopters on the west coast including one I had scratch built in '88. I currently have a couple E sport airplanes in the hangar. I am familiar with the issues associated with electric power. I also know that the popularity of electrics are growing at an alarming rate. On any given day at my local club I estimate 20% to 25% of the airplanes in the pits are E powered. IMO this popularity is because the are easier to operate and have a higher reliability rate then glow. Yes I did make the comment that I tried E pattern and it did not ring my bell. That could be a bit mis leading. Then again I am accustomed to my 40% Extra that holds 1/2 gallon of gas that I can get 30 min flights out of. You can see where 8 min flights would be disappointing. Yes a DNS is pretty much self inflicted and I take all precautions not to have them. I have however seen even Verano not start because of a stuck regulator causing him to be flooded. Trust me when I say that if there was a way to work this out where everyone felt the E racers and the glow guys were on a level,playing field I would be all for it. If Marty were to approve E racers I would not be the guy complaining about it, I'm there to race not whine.
Old 12-22-2014, 11:11 AM
  #135  
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Hey Guys,
I appreciate all of the discussions and the passion from all sides. I will be leaving this thread as i feel it has run out of purpose.
I will be commenting any further on the thread I began announcing the Warbird Championship Race going forward as planned.
No hard feelings
Not feeling any advantages E guys have other than doing a go around
Just feel there are too many variables that would create an advantage and eventually push nitros out.
Still Calling it a championship race for warbirds
Still looking forward to racing with everyone where I may see you.

Hope you all have a Wondeful Christmas.
Old 11-08-2015, 07:22 PM
  #136  
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What ever are we going to do when the micro-nuclear reactor rc power plants are released next spring? Not to mention the warp drives already on the shelves?
Old 11-08-2015, 08:52 PM
  #137  
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I've often wondered that myself.
Old 11-08-2015, 09:12 PM
  #138  
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I don't anticipate loosing any sleep.

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