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JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

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JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Old 07-10-2007, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

OOps! those were the wrong ones, Here are some from the AZ Electric festival back in the early part of the year.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hmmm - no inventory list, no catalog page or other means of obtaining a list of what was once available from Jack Bale, or comparing it to whatever is left now. Just a smattering of hype for a few months, and now nothing. Right!
That's one heckuva legacy!
That's the way my workbench in the garage looks like most of the time, and I wouldn't blame my wife at all if she swept the whole mess into the garbage the day I died. But I guess people with legacies are treated different, eh?
Old 07-10-2007, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

I would be glad to provide web space for an index (scanned) of Jack's catalog(s).
It won't take long to set up if I get some degree of interest from the person with
the molds "in their possession" to simply go through the molds with some sense of
imagination to identify each against the catalog listing.

At this point I am not convienced the molds are all in the possession of one person.
I know that may sound counter productive, however when met with questions about
what molds he...has. We're met with silence for an answer.

The catalog can identifty the number of vacuum formed items for each design. Plus
I should still have P-38 Lockneed planset in my inventory if the molds are found
for its exo-skeleton.

This pot's getting awfully full...time to put up or flush it!

Respectfully speaking we are tiring of reading "nothing in reply" to everyone's sincere
inquiries. Jack's looking down on all this laughing and crying at the same time saying
"They still don't get it!" Rest in peace Jack, rest in peace.
Old 07-10-2007, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Gentlemen,
I too would like to see what is available, and I just e-mailed mtnmnstr.
At worst hopefully we can each post the plans that we do have, and maybe we can trade plans amongst each other.
I have copies of Jack Bales:
Bell XP-59 Airacomet
ME262
Vought flying pancake.

I am looking for Jack's early jet designs.

Come on fellas, whats out there.

Regards,
Victor
Old 07-11-2007, 06:11 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hi Gentlemen,
Just received an e-mail from mtnmnstr, Seems to be a real nice person, we just need to be patient, I am sure he has a real life, just like the rest of us.
OOPS! got to go, I think I hear the wife calling.
Old 07-11-2007, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Its not difficult to use MS Word to prepare a list of the plans and molds available for molding ABS
parts for the plans. Hey, this isn't rocket science.
Old 11-03-2007, 07:52 AM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hello!
Can anybody post coomplete list of his plans?
Any laser cutters who work from his plans?
Thank you,
Kostya
Old 11-03-2007, 09:52 AM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: salat Hello! Can anybody post coomplete list of his plans?
Any laser cutters who work from his plans? Thank you, Kostya
Hello Salat:

Don't know if you are aware of this...most of Jack's designs relied heavily on an exo-skeleton sheath of molded ABS plastic sections and components to be completed as designed. Otherwise to attempt to assemble his designs would entail a degree of fabrication utilizing documentation to correctly complete the design.

The molds for the clear and opaque plastic components were strawn across Jack's property at the time of his passing. Jack's daughter is quoted as not wanting anything to do with Jack's hobby business. When inquiries were attempted relative to sale of the business... molds, plan masters, etc... "Silence" was the reply.

From what I was told a number of Jack's rc club members attempted to retrieve the above items rather than see Jack's daughter discard them. I requested an index of the entire contents of Jack's business. After an extended period of time I received an email stating there was and would not be an index at that time because they could not match up the required items with their plans. With this declaration I realized these individuals didn't even have a set of Jack's catalogs to clearly identify what went with what. To my knowledge they never put out a request for them either.

There was a request for X amount of $ for the lot...sight unseen. When asked if everything was left as it was at Jack's passing I was told they had begun "gathering" things up and trying to identify what they were. This of course disassociated items from whatever sense of catagorization Jack utilized. I declined the offer to acquire what later was said to be reminants of what was...The value in Jack's designs is within their size and subject airframes for powering with electric systems.

The exo-skeleton lends itself well to the internal space required for proper cooling of components and batteries while maintaining a high degree of scale fidelity. It is a shame the molds and the many master sheets for Jack's designs have apparently passed to the winds of history.

When this thread began I thought someone had finally indexed what was left over. As you can see, its been a very long time line for a thread with "0" index of available complete or partial plans and surviving molds for the necessary plastic components. We have lost a scale modeling treasure.
Old 11-03-2007, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hello Ed!
Thank you for comprehensive answer.
I wonder how such talented person managed to end so poor in trailer... Why nobody came over his location to check what actually happened with molds? And may be talk her daughter to more reasonable offer.
Can you point me to the list of his designs? Nothing useful found from google..
Excuse me poor English please.
Thank you,
Kostya
Old 11-03-2007, 02:09 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Outside of a catalog listing of over 70 designs no index exists.
Apparently no one cares either.

You failed to read between the lines concerning his relationship
with his daughter...

I communicated with Jack as much as anyone I suppose. I had
a section in BuyAero.com with Jack's designs.

With no posts here in ages, its pretty clear no one has been successful
in obtaining power of attorney in order to sell anything with Jack's name on it.
Without a power of attorney releasing the work, there would not be recourse
given a relative appeared once sales resumed... if you catch my drift...
Old 11-05-2007, 11:23 AM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hi Ed,
If I'd was able, I'd made a visit to Jack's daughter to make sure nothing possible to do. Another thought is that I can't imagine her sueing somebody for using molds and plans from her father to make his work continue live. And I think Jack would be glad to see things this way. But I think everything is already pulled out by "fellow" neighbour modellers... I do not like to see when somebody aquires rights and freezes production of some old designs. Old style building needs fresh breath now and Jack's approach seems valuable for that purpose. I do not see good scale electric planes around, old masters prefer IC power just because they are old (with rare exclusion like Ivane Pettegrew).
I'm personally (I'm beginner) going to electrify Cleveland design planes with all possible detail.
Thank you,
Kostya
P.S. interesting to see if you get what I put "between lines"
Old 11-05-2007, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Actually, from what I was told back when all this happened four years ago...she could care less. To my knowledge no one acquired POA for the right to sell any of Jack's property. That is why I and my associates dropped interest in aquiring everything. Without protection of the POA it is likely a relative would raise an issue after anyone revived the business.

For example, I would have imagined someone else responding to this discussion since we are beating a dust cloud and several personal references have been made. Apparently, no one cares at all! It is a shame to see it all pass away with Jack. Its been almost five years now and what you are reading is all that remains of the topic.
Old 11-05-2007, 12:59 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

What a shame that these plans will be lost to the rc world.
I recently sent an e-mail to mtnmnstr voluntering to help in sorting what remains of the plans, hopefully I will get an answer.
I will keep you posted if anything happens.

Victor
Old 11-05-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hello Ed!
What means "care less"?
Thank you,
Kostya
Old 11-05-2007, 01:06 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Salat,
"Care Less" means not caring at all what happens.

Victor
Old 11-05-2007, 01:12 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

..
Old 11-05-2007, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Ed
Hello! I’m not a lawyer, and know nothing of law. But I was wondering if and when, Jack’s work would ever become public domain? Where others would be able to claim the rights and re-manufacture the kits without having to pay any royalties to any currently uninterested family members. Being a person of business, perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us on that part. This thread has been hanging around for a long time now. So there still seems to be a lot of interest in Jack’s designs. It would be a shame to give up without a fight. I don’t think Jack would want it to end this way.
Thanks,
Bob J.
Old 11-05-2007, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Considering we are talking about the State Of California...IMHO it would be almost impossible to answer that set of questions without it costing someone a lot of money : ) I have Jack's catalogs tucked away somewhere in what I consider a modeling library (unindexed...of course : ). Each is a set of stapled Zerox'd pages. In reality I believe there are over seventy (70) different designs.

Don't recall ever seeing a copyright on any of the pages. Probably there, but have never back tracked to make sure. I simply sought to acquire the protection of a POA before venturing further, even to consider traveling to see what remained at the time.

After persons who claimed to be Jack's club members got involved the free flow of information virtually stopped except from new persons wanting X $ accompanied by statements they had no idea what was available in the lot. Quickly, this began to smell like a scheme to simply profit instead of a desire to sustain Jack's designs. I am sorry to say, I was left to think little else as they refused to provide an accounting of what they had in their possession.

This is an interstate matter, not an intra-state issue. Along with that comes a requirement for accounting that is not necessarily going to be followed through with at the State Of California level. One man's treasure is another man's junk at what could be covered under a "yard sale" premise within the State Of California. That is clearly not the case across a State border.

Imagine the answer to your questions is found with the County Tax Office where Jack resided at the time of his death. That is whether or not Jack was operating under a legit DBA registered with the State Of California to collect sales tax, or a matter he'd skirted (minor detail associated with possession of a POA from a relative). Yes, you can inherit debt... When a person dies there is at least a 90 day period of time in which those who claim debts are due...have to make claim. I don't know about transference of debt to anyone holding a POA in the State Of California...(delicate issue).

That is something I don't know and am not going to speculate about. Simply reflecting on memories and quessing why people didn't follow through a disposition if they in fact legally possessed Bale's designs. That being a POA or release of same to public domain by either Jack in his last days on earth, or a family member. I suggested they, the claimed to be club members, follow the POA route as it normally does not cost much to travel along it to any disposition under these circumstances. Immediately ceased to receive replies and requests to send $ for a "pig in a poke".

I had friends in Jack's proximity but never approached them because this rapidly acquired a stinch that they could not avoid if they inquired at the local level. Sad, really sad!!!

http://www.ilrg.com/forms/states/ca-...fattorney.html

That document would have to have an ammendment in which Jack or his survivor clearly states they transfer the ownership of designs, molds, plans, note, etc. related to Jack Bale's hobby related business to the persons on the POA. Otherwise, the POA only empowers someone to act in behalf of the survivor and not take possession of what remains of the above discussed items.
Old 11-06-2007, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Ed
Thank you for your reply. I am afraid I must agree with your conclusion. It seems that our hobby has lost a valuable part of itself. Thanks again, and take care.
Bob J.
Old 11-06-2007, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hello!
Anybody, please, call Jack's daughter by phone and ask if something still exist or dupmed years ago. I guess the question may be simply resolved on place with her permission to get everything without any law difficulties for resonable compensation. If she's really careless (I first thought it means something like 'homeless'
Old 11-06-2007, 07:12 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

After a few years of trying to run down what is still available of Jack Bales plans, I have not found much.
As mentioned earlier I have copies of:
Bell XP-59 Airacomet
ME262
Vought flying pancake.
DeHavilland Whirlwind
Grumman Hawkeye
If anyone has any other plans, in particular jet plans, I would be willing to either buy or trade copies
Old 11-06-2007, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

I am afriad you do not understand the consequence of acquiring something like this without a qualified POA. There is apparently something being lost in translation to Russian. The daughter was estranged from her father and had absolutely nothing to do with him from what jack had to say and others who knew Jack.

International copyright law is enforceable "against anyone" who does not hold rights to model plans. Another issue is the plans alone are not any good without molds for the plastic components required for completion. Give it up guys, this is literally a dead thread! Bless Jack's heart...there is no justice!
Old 12-06-2007, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Check5,

I'd love to build a Flying Pancake - PM me with details on the plans you have.
Old 12-07-2007, 12:42 AM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

Hello Ed!
Can you explain me possible consequencies if somebody who have Jack's plans on hand will put them online in scanned form? I guess several than may get ideas and(or) inspiration and would build necessery molds for themselves. It would be without doubt much easier than starting from ground..
Thank you,
Kostya
Old 12-07-2007, 09:15 AM
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Default RE: JACK BALE....I HAVE ALL THATS LEFT!!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: salat Hello Ed: Can you explain me possible consequencies if somebody who have Jack's plans on hand will put them online in scanned form? I guess several than may get ideas and(or) inspiration and would build necessery molds for themselves. It would be without doubt much easier than starting from ground... Thank you, Kostya


Salat:

I thought about how to reply to this post and finally came up with a parity which should help in your understanding. This post is not in any way intended to be negative or flaming as there are obviously cultural differentials which exist between our societies which somehow prevents understanding of my last post. Nothing is better than a blunt answer sometimes : )

Consequences:

1. After a period of time where-in anyone attempting to build an enterprise from Jack Bales' plans and or molds without a formal release from recourse by one of Jack's "long lost and estranged family members"... it would be anticipated that the "long lost and estranged family members" could and probably would claim copyright violation and theft of personal and intelligent property in the Great State Of California legal system (civil and criminal courts).

2. After considerable time, energy, and USD investment in building an enterprise with whatever may be in possession of a person attempting to resurrect or reconstruct elements of or items from Jack's estate in whole or in part, this individual would be drug into the California judicial system and found guilty of intellectual property theft.

3. If the above "defendent(s)" were not a Great State Of California resident... ; ) The process described in 2. above is "repeated" in U.S. Federal Court within the jurisdiction of their residence. This is because the activity was across the State line of the Great State Of California and is a violation of interstate commerce to mention one of those items on a longer list.

4. If the contents of 3. above is not enough and you are still reading...International Copyright violation would pick things up from there and a whole host of accompanying liabilities to be contended with if any of those $ involved in #1. reside outside the United States Of America...

5. If the contents of 1 through 4 above are still vague, unclear, or somehow confusing I recommend re-reading 1 through 4 after giving this sentence some consideration... Copyright does not fall into the public domaine until either the copyright owner's family members, aka survivors, release themselves from financial and legal recourse or a pre-scribed and published period of time has passed. The length of time is typically prescribed in the decedant's State of residence. By the way, that information is online and easily found. Jack lived in California, USA.

Now, does that provide an answer beyond the generally accepted premise that "theft" is against the law, in most of the world ?

This topic keeps going round and round amidst the remaining items of Jack's estate. It has been stated club members of Jack's AMA club were in possession of molds and inventory of plans, plan masters, assembly instructions, and multiple catalog masters for all of Jack's designs.

Individual who started this thread no longer posts within it nor has for a very long time. Seems it would be to his or her advantage to contact the President of Jack's AMA club and inquire about the name of individual club members who were said to have had all of Jack's inventory in their possession. It was also stated a long time ago that they were in communication with Jack's daughter. It would be reasonable to expect they know Jack's daughter's full name (not assumed to be maiden last name) and an address and telephone number. The State Of California county court clerk/registrar where Jack resided at the time of his death, or within the jurisdiction of where Jack passed away may and probably does have a public record of his survivors and their addresses.

I feel I know one thing which is absolute after viewing all of what has transpired after Jack's passing. If Jack's designs had been as popular during his time here with the living...the reward of that success would have probably had a positivie effect on his family and his said to be estranged relationship with them. Jack's "leading edge" designs from a time close to ten years ahead of electric flight becoming a common r/c venue speak highly for the vision the man had. A vision shared by only a few pioneers within this hobby. There should be strong consideration for placing Jack in the AMA Hall Of Fame...

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