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CAD shoot out

Old 09-24-2006, 07:49 AM
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1/2Aandbeyond
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Default CAD shoot out

Ok guys I've been working with some demos and some of my own stuff here. I have put Designcad 3d, Turbocad, and Autocad 02' against each other. I feel Acad is King but I have been reading good things about Turbocad too! I was convinced Designcad was worth a shot because of Joe at http://plans.rcmodell.hu/ who has been using it successfuly for a long time. But, my initial experience was that I was immediately turned off by Designcad and moved on to Turbocad. Turbocad gave me a warm fuzzy feeling but still it felt like a Acad demo. I think that for the money if someone was looking to buy a cad progie I'd got with Tcad. Tcad lacked something Acad has that I love and thats the to grab and zoom or grab and move, but theres always the possibility I haven't found that feature that.

Anyway I thought it would be a great idea to put the CADs together to see which one for the money is best for R/C design because this is becoming common to need CAD viewers printers convertors or whole programs. Gotta go I have a 4 year old on the edge of getting his hide tanned, and a baby in need of milk, adios!
Old 09-24-2006, 08:06 AM
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canadagoose
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

Tcad lacked something Acad has that I love and thats the to grab and zoom or grab and move, but theres always the possibility I haven't found that feature that.
All you have to do is move the cursor to the area of the plan you want to zoom and then use the mouse wheel to zoom in and out.
I tried this in ACAD 2006 but it doesn't do this near as good as in TCad. (The part that is being zoomed won't come to the center of the screen).
Thanks to TurboCad professional i've been able to do CAD work like this.
I think TurboCad has the right tools and ease of use for newbies to get thier feet wet in CAD and actually produce drawings that they would find they
just couldn't do with ACAD without having taken a course on it. I know i'm one.
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Old 09-24-2006, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

That was my immediate impression too, Tcad Pro was perfect for newbs and the experienced. It has a decent price on it that won't break the bank. I felt like everything was where it was suppose to be when it's opened up. Design cad 3d gave me the creeps, I was impressed with it's boot speed but the layout felt all wrong to me, plus it feels like it's lacking some things but I'm not sure what just yet.
Old 09-24-2006, 10:35 AM
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canadagoose
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

I agree with you on DesignCad 3D Max, i've tried but i just can't seem to do much with it.
Old 09-24-2006, 12:14 PM
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CoosBayLumber
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

There is a world of difference in to the noted brands of software you cited. Off one, you can make a handy living, the others....

I talk to several of the model makers or vendors every year. Those firms happen to use Autocad LT, but not the latest version. One of their things is customization. The Autodesk products will allow you to create or bring in custom menus. The function to which you desire to often use, is buried in their command structure. Once figured out, you just snap to the icon (function) and drag to top of screen. Then, likewise you can drag the opposite direction for seldom used commands. I prefer to view a drawing with only the buttons or comamnd to which I anticipate using. The remainder get stored away, to reveal an even larger drawing view area.

There has to be a good 1-2000 Q & A's put forth at the Autodesk site each week, and is dangerous to simply download some one's personal "Shortcut" menu, for often they and you are not in same business. Thus you get their Junk, along with what you really want. Being as I do so many of the drawings for laser cutting, I made an inquiery as how to create a simple routine at one web site. Within two hours I had help, and one offer to create the LISP file for me also. The routine generally only saves me 15 seconds per use. But times that by several thousand uses already.

The big thing in much of this, is how big in the end do you expect to go? My version of TurboCAD will not permit the preparation of any drawing larger than is possible to come off the printer/plotter. This makes for small models only to be designed there. On DesignCAD 2000 and 3000, it will permit most any size of a drawing, but does not understand PaperSpace. If you obtain a plan done in metric units, you have to create an artificial drawing which is done in fractional units, just so it can then be plotted out. When I was working with DC, I had to use a cheat sheet in order to convert all metric measurements into fractional. For it just did not understand otherwise. The new ACAD, will permit insertion of both measuring systems in to the drawing, but will only permit export or "To the plotter" in one of the systems. If you plan on designing and drawing up rubber power or 1/2A size aircraft, make you selection accordingly.

It does not get down to the choise via cost, but should be based upon needs.

Wm.
Old 09-24-2006, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

Coos I DID say Autocad was King, sadly it's not always available to eveyone by it's price tag alone. I lucked up and a guy at work took care of me for my version of Acad. But if I Have to buy today I would bet on Turbocad. I thought this post would help everyone with questions on the various cadware out there today because it looks as confusing and involved as fly fishing to the novice.
Old 09-24-2006, 02:56 PM
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CoosBayLumber
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

I joined in to a chat last year at another internet site. The same thing as mentioned here was mentioned there too. 'cept one fellow was all hot and bothered about using Corel Draw!! also.

I cannot remember the consensis, but of the respondants, only the homies were using CheapCAD. I remember Jerry Bates was using Acad 2005, 2000i and R-14 for his drawings, as most of his creations are rather large. They consume 3-4 sheets at 100 inches+ each. Those who were using CheapCAD and the one fellow using Corel Draw were only working on single (and sometimes double) sheet plans, of about 36 by 60", to which just about any Graphic or CAD software will work on. One fellow mentioned he had to take the plan he made at home on CheapCAD, break it into several pieces and take to his office, reassemble, and plot there. Took him several floppy disks to get from home to the office. There were a couple of folks who knew how to connect in big digitizer tablets, but upon upgrading to a more modern CAD software, that option got dropped. One version of Designcad will support a tablet, but you need to obtain the WinTab driver or theirs at $395 per. I use my large format tablet about two times each month. After the Chat was finished, doubt anyone altered their thinking, but it separated the group into two distinct halfs. The folks who work on big plans, and those who work on small ones with an outlook as to how to circumvent this problem.

Problem I have found is that in my area of 3 million, there are zero trade or adult schools teaching their students on how to use a CAD software, other than Autocad.


Wm.
Old 09-24-2006, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

Does it really matter who uses what? 'CheapCad' or AutoCad? The only things that do matter really is the work that is done with the program and that it completely works for the person using it. If a persons desire is to ultimately get a job doing CAD work, by all means learn AutoCad. If it is for personal use, find what works for you in your budget range.
Old 09-24-2006, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

I think it matters greatly Goose. I think discussing modeling r/c aircraft in the scratch building and cad forum in an effort to better research the best software for the job for the dollar is appropriate. I would assume that the conversation might greatly benefit newbs to intermediate users looking to take the plunge on new software for the purpose of designing aircraft. This is why we are here isn't it?


BTW whats up with your forum page, Goose?
Old 09-24-2006, 05:08 PM
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Well then i think TurboCAD Professional is the best bang for the buck for 2d drawing especially for hobbiests and home users. It will do 3D but is slow like ACAD since it isn't a parametric modeller. For me i find ACAD awkward and hard to get along with and it was the first CAD package i had tried in earnest to learn to use.
Pro/E is a great program to use once you get used to it's interface and is absolutely incredible for 3d work. Expensive though unless you can find an older student edition on Ebay like i did but alot of the added applications are disabled. Would love to have the fully loaded package if i could afford it. I guess ACAD isn't the only ExpensiveCAD.
These are the ones for me i can let the creativity flow. ACAD, DesignCad i find hindering.
Another one i would love to try is Solid Works, maybe someday.
Old 09-24-2006, 06:14 PM
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dolanosa
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

I just think the main thing about CAD is just to get the ideas on paper, dimension it according to need an dthe available equipment and plot it out to start building. The things that differ between $$$ CAD and 0$ CAD are options. If someone is comfortable using a 0$ CAD app and they know how to draw, I would put them up against someone who has the latest version of ACAD, DCAD, TCAD, CATIA who doesn't know how to draw. Sure, the big $ CAD apps can make prettier pictures but I haven't seen a drawing take off and land.

IMHO, if people want to get into CAD, I strongly suggest investing in a drafting course. Then depending on what they want to do, only then decide on what options they need in a CAD application. Myself, I have used ACAD, CATIA, EZ-CAD/CAM, and Pro-E when I worked as an engineer for dfferent companies. Now, I'm just fine with a free version of ICAD (2000) because I don't need 3D rendering or solids or FEM. Other people might not be able to live without NURBS or 3D rendering but that's their business.

If we're going with ANY type of CAD app, I would have to go with Catia. If this is for prosumer, AutoCAD. If the shootout is for hobbyist, TurboCAD. Free CAD, IntelliCAD 2K. If I have the finances and I have CNC equipment, I'll probably end up getting something with better surfacing and curve abilities.

I just miss having access to 5-axis milling machines, CNC routers and laser cutters.

B
Old 09-24-2006, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

I use TurboCad and it works great for me, How many of you have ever built a plane with a set of 3D plans. Many beautiful models have been built, useing 2D plans. Sure I know that the curves in TurboCad have a lot to be desired, but i it is easy to use a french curve after you print the plans. Unless you are in the business of drawing plans for a living, I'd rather spend the money that you would spend on AutoCad, for more airplane goodies. My 3 boys eat like starving horses, and I'm on a fixed income due to a fall off a motor grader, my modeling money is on a tight budget, so I try to get the best bang for my buck.


Keep the Faith : Johnny
Old 09-24-2006, 10:00 PM
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Balsa Shavings, sorry to hear you were injured in a fall off your grader. A friend of mine did the same thing not too long ago and broke the top of his femur on the top of the blade. Sometimes it seems inevitable, when operating the heavy iron that you will eventually get hurt. If nothing else the back eventually sucumbs. I also operate equipment (in a coal mine) mostly D11's and D10's as well as graders.

You can make nice curves using the bezier command and after creating the curve, use the node edit command tool to adjust the nodes to get the curve way you want, that's what i do anyways.
If you have a professional version it's quite easy to extrude formers and parts that have been drawn to assemble the structure in 3d to check for any mistakes. When i did that plane in the photo that i posted above i found a few mistakes that i had made where parts didn't fit right. Not good when having a laser cutter cutting you useless parts. 3d capability is at least good for that, besides that it just looks cool seeing it in 3d too.
Old 09-24-2006, 11:07 PM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

BS

(Sorry, but I just couldn't pass that one up!)

I hope you and your family are doing OK... I had a tractor (old massy farm tr) roll over on me 30 years ago and if it wasn't for family and friends I don't know what I would have done. OK now except for the usual aches and pains of my age.

As to programs, I have messed around with a number of free versions, but just sent in my order for TCAD 10.2 cus it was cheap and comes with training guides.

My normal process for scratch-building is to take measurements of what has to fit in the plane. I then draw out a simple sheet with a basic idea of what I need to end up with. After that it is a matter of gluing stuff together in what ever way that the materials will go together to make the shape I designed... This seems a bit loose, but I have about 20 kits under my belt and about the same amount of planes either scratched up or built from plans so a lot of what I do I have done a number of times before.

If TCAD works for me, I will figure out if I have a need to upgrade to a newer version/pro, or even a different program. As I only plan on using the CAD program for a hobby (I'm retired) I couldn't see getting involved in an $800 program (heck, that's new bags for the bike!)

Old 09-25-2006, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out


ORIGINAL: dolanosa

IMHO, if people want to get into CAD, I strongly suggest investing in a drafting course. Then depending on what they want to do, only then decide on what options they need in a CAD application. Myself, I have used ACAD, CATIA, EZ-CAD/CAM, and Pro-E when I worked as an engineer for dfferent companies. Now, I'm just fine with a free version of ICAD (2000) because I don't need 3D rendering or solids or FEM. Other people might not be able to live without NURBS or 3D rendering but that's their business.
I agree. I would also put emphasis on drafting, not just operating CAD software. For example, there is a lot more to dimensioning than hitting an icon and slapping them on. There are standards concerning linetypes and line weights that are not used by amatures because they just do not know them. Like proper grammar, they are important for communicating clearly.

I would also recomend a public community college over some private, for profit, ''technical institute''. You will get at least the same quality of education, and even if you were to pay the full cost, the public school would still cost half as much.

I haven't tried Turbo-CAD, but from what I have read, it might be worth a try. I have tried DesignCAD, and find it very cumbersome. I had a hell of a time getting the object snaps to work right.
Old 09-27-2006, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

I second that dread, Designcad doesn't get me excited.
Old 10-02-2006, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: CAD shoot out

Well for years I have used Corel Draw to do all my cad work. yea its not as powerful as say acad but i have designed 3rd scale aircraft on it as it is not limited on any size but your imagination. you could draw a full scale 747 on it if you didnt mind all the zoom in and zoom out. the other bonus is when i want to import a set of plans to trace and enlarge the one thing corel has over any other cad program i have found is that when you resize your tiff drawing the lines dont get really fat and thick they stay the same size whick is like .5mm wide the width of a mechanical pencil thus it makes it really easy to trace plans for enlargement besides designing your own.

Joe

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