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F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Old 01-01-2007, 06:29 PM
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Default F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

I just can't walk by an empty building board. I tried, really I did. While I've been waiting for my TopFlite 1/7 Mustang to arrive, I spent 4 or 5 days cleaning and organizing the airplane factory. Today I couldn't take it anymore, and started building this set of plans that appeared in Radio Control Model World, April 1990. (I ordered the plans and was able to obtain a canopy through Traplet Publications.) You can find them at: traplethouse.com They have an extensive collection of plans, with many WWI, WWII and modern warbirds.

Anyway, a few years ago I scaled down that ducted fan F-4 design that Pavel sold to RCM Magazine. Put a geared Cobalt 600 on it, and it actually flew. Not very well. It was so draggy that only the big geared motor could haul it fast enough to fly, and there was so much prop torque I couldn't make it turn right. It only went around counterclockwise. Had to be launched off a plywood pedal launcher that I built for it. (I still have it, if anyone's interested. The launcher, that is. The airplane is hanging up in my nephew's bedroom in Loveland, CO)

Anyway, here's some pix of Pavel's prototype, and where I am so far with the build. Notice that I am starting with the wrong end first. Typical bassackwards approach. It won't get finished til long after the Mustang is done, but when it is, it will be powered by a piped OS 61 FX with a Cline fuel system, and will have Robart spring down retracts. (502s with struts)

I'm going to model it after one of the most beautiful F4s ever flown, those that were found at Selfridge Air National Guard Base between 1978 and 1990. They belonged to the 191st Fighter Interceptor Group, the famed "Michigan Six Pack", which was part of the active air defense network during the cold war. This particular one is AF 63-529, the first F-4C that I worked on after joining the unit in 1978. It was the first one we got back from St. Louis overhaul that was painted up in our colors, and is the subject of a Monogram 1/72nd kit. You can't see it in this shot, but the rudder has the same checkerboard on it that you can see on the variramps.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:26 AM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

As you can see by the first picture, the fin is built of sticks with sheeting on both sides. It has a spruce spar sticking out the bottom that keys into the top of F7, which is kind of a "spine" that forms the basis of the tail structure aft of the last real former, F6. The rudder is balsa sheet, tapered towards the aft end.

The fuse on the F4 is such a weird shape that it has to be built on a jig. I'll be cutting the formers and setting all that up today.

These plans are drawn for metric balsa sizes, which I can't get, so I've been converting to the closest fractional equivalent.

I didn't mention it before, but this model is a prop in the nose, and Pavel didn't give it air intakes, as he wanted to reduce the drag.
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

OK. Gettin down to it.

The jig just was a no-go for this fuse. It was too wide, for starters, and the 36" rods weren't long enough to corral all the formers. So...

I drew a reference line on the fuse side view, connecting the bottoms of F4 and F6. Then, I measured down from the tops of all the other formers to the ref. line, and made them longer on the bottom so that all of them touch the ref. line. You can see how this works in the pic: I'll have some material to remove from most of them after the sides and top planking are on the fuse. A little dremel work and sanding should take care of that.

I used balsa triangle tack glued to the backs of each former so that they could be pinned onto the board and be good vertically.
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:32 PM
  #4  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

These pix show the fuse sides (I*) being epoxied to the formers. Actually, I aligned and did the left side first, and you're seeing the right side curing now. The fuse sides are 3/16" balsa sheet with a 1/32" ply doubler on the inside. I had to shim the bases of F3 and F4 with 1/8 balsa to raise them a bit so they'd line up with the wing saddle properly. (My reference line measurements must have been off a little. Fortunately the sides lined up perfectly with all the formers in the nose and tail, so the baseline was correct.) Note the printer paper conduits for wiring and air tubing, and the big hole in F4 for the fuel tank. (It'll be on the CG, as I'm using a Cline fuel system. There's no room for the tank behind the engine due to the narrowness of the fuse at that point.)

I'm not using any long push rods- she'll have two MG micro servos in the stab for the elevators, and one standard servo buried in the tail below the fin for the rudder. The retract servo and valve will be near the air tank, and the throttle and nose wheel steering servos will be MG micros in the nose gear bay, between F2 and F3. The 3/8 ply engine mount fits between F1 and F2. This was all epoxied together before doing the fuse sides. If you look close you can see the nose gear blind nuts on the forward side of F2. I'll be using the Robart 510 system with the firewall mounted nose gear. I'm considering using just one standard servo on the ailerons, but set up to operate them as flaps, as I can use the two elevator servos to run them as "tailerons". Has anyone had any experience with tailerons? Pavel made the tail HUGE on this model, and the elevators stick out away from the fuse almost as far as the ailerons, so she should roll fairly well with them. I'm not looking for a high roll rate, anyway, as the real bird was not the quickest at that.

*Pavel denotes Fuse Sides I and II. These are fairly narrow pieces of sheet balsa that glue onto the little bit of flat surface there is on the formers. The remaining curved surfaces are planked. I'll be using 3/16x3/8 strips, as those are closest to the metric ones called out in the plans.
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:26 PM
  #5  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

The tail feather controls ended up like this, after three days of head scratching, figurin, and cussin.

Rudder servo and linkage entirely inside the tail cone. The rudder torque rod and it's tube will get installed from the bottom after the fin is glued on and the fuse/fin are covered. Then the rudder goes on.

Elevon servos are upside down, one right of center and one left. These will be installed after she's all built, with short GP Metal Wire P/Rs. The bottom tail cone sheeting will be converted into a removable hatch for such purposes.
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Old 01-08-2007, 08:18 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Ok, I've been watching your build thread. You build way to fast.

Looks good! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Old 01-08-2007, 09:30 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Yeah, I know. Comes with being retired. All I have to do is take care of the dogs and cats, blow snow off the driveway, put out the trash, and build airplanes. Sucks, huh?
Old 01-12-2007, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Here's the top of the fuse all planked, and the left side gaps filled with epoxy and microballoons. Never built one that had a planked fuse, so this has been kind of a training session. The right side came out a lot nicer than the left, as the left was done first. I learned how to sand bevels on the inside of the planks for a better fit. Not near as many gaps on the right side.

After the right side is filled and sanded, I'll work on getting the correct profile in the area where the canopy sits. Then, I'll cut the bottoms off all the formers and plank the bottom of the fuse.

Today I also ordered the spinner, a Tru Turn 2-3/4" FAI type, two blade, black anodized. The FAI shape comes the closest to the that of the radome on the F4.
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:01 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Nice build.......
Old 01-14-2007, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Thanks, Bob

After looking at some threads on the OS 61FX, I'm beginning to doubt my engine choice for this bird.

I went to the Jett Engineering website, but couldn't get it to download anything. (Must be a glitch?) I was wondering if Jett has a 60, and is the mounting pattern the same as an OS 61FX?
Old 01-14-2007, 03:30 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Jett website does not work with Firefox (I still do not know why, same code on there for about 10 years now - firefox doesnt seem to understand the old frames code).

Visit it with IE

Jett offers the SJ-76 and SJ-90L for its "60" size engines. Same size and appx weight as the OS61 and OS91 engines. Same mounting pattern and footprint too. The killer engine of the lot is the SJ-90LX - gobs of power, turns the crud out of a 11x8 prop, and still is user friendly - throttles.... idles nicely.

http://www.jettengineering.com/engines/sj90-new.html

Of note, the OS61 and 91, and the ST90 are all good engines too. Worth considering still. Add a jett-stream muffler to any of them and each will become a whole new breed of engine.

Intersting aircraft topic... looks like a fun project.

Old 01-14-2007, 04:59 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Bob:

Thanks for the reply, and the link. I really like the SJ76. I'm looking for around 120 mph top end with this A/C. Do you think the 76 would do ok with an 11-7 or an 11-8?

Here's the latest pic. Spent all day doing the final filling and sanding on the top half, and constructing a canopy base and dash for the pilot. Just have to put in the Wizzo's dash, and I can turn to planking the bottom.

Are you a Phabulous Phantom Phan also?
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Old 01-15-2007, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Yep, I like the F-4 looks.. probably why I like the EU-1A too

The SJ-76 is right at home with an 11x7 or 11x8. Same goes for the 90L or 90LX. These are all just "61 on steroid" engines. Run them as if they were 1985 vintage pattern engines (just a bit more user friendly for general use).

http://www.jettengineering.com/hall/hall-propjets.html



GP F-4J with SJ-76 power (not sure of the owner, received the photo several years ago)

Although, I can recall Dub actually selling a SJ-76 for over a year now. It is still available, but most folks go for the SJ-90L or 90LX these days.
Old 01-15-2007, 10:25 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Bob:

Are there a PDF version of the SJ 76's manual available? If there is, could you post one?

Thanks.
Old 01-16-2007, 11:20 AM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

All of the instructions are available on line here

http://www.jettengineering.com/tech/tech.html

no PDF, but there is a word version for the SJ-76 engine
http://www.jettengineering.com/tech/INSTSJ65.doc

(note... I REALLY have to update all of these document, the .61, .65 are obsolete - no longer sold)

also review this one
http://www.jettengineering.com/tech/INSTSJ90.doc
(of note, the target noted of 15K on the 12x6 is now 14K - muffler was made a tag longer for the standard version)

General instructions
http://www.jettengineering.com/tech/techsj.html
http://www.jettengineering.com/tech/TECHSJ.doc
http://www.jettengineering.com/tech/dimensions.html

also, some of these show various email addresses. Jett email is [email protected] or [email protected]
for all email (I had to shut down most of the email boxes - spam was overwhelming)

Engines are easy to operate. Brief break-in.... bolt it in the plane and fly. Each engine is run at the shop before it is shipped out, performance is verified, and the low end mixture is set up. Just use the recommended props and the engine will run better than anything else you have owned
Old 01-16-2007, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Thanks, Bob

I've learned more about engines and fuel systems from those links than I have in the last 4 years.
Old 01-16-2007, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

My pleasure.

If need arises, I live not too far away. Always happy to help.
Old 01-23-2007, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Here's the fuse, awaiting the engine. Won't be able to do final shaping on the nose until it arrives. I thought long and hard about Jett, and reached the conclusion that those are very powerful, super high quality racing engines that have more power (and more need for fuel) than this bird requires, so I'm going with a Tower 75.

I glassed it with light cloth (.75 oz/ft-sq) using finishing epoxy thinned 100% with denatured alcohol. Low spots and blemishes are filled with Bondo 907. She'll be covered with Monokote Dove Gray.

Cut the first pieces for the wing last night. More later.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:34 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

looks nice so far
Old 01-27-2007, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

OK. Got started on the wing. This one is different from anything I've ever built, in that the spars are swept back, the forward one at 68 degrees, and the aft one at 75 degrees. This can be seen in pic 1, which shows the drawing. Obviously, this means the notches in the ribs and spars must be cut at corresponding angles or the wing will come out straight, instead of with a swept leading edge. Pavel mentions nothing about this in the instructions, and rightly so, as his philosophy is that if you're far enough along to be building a semi scale Phantom from drawings, you should know this kind of thing already. (I should have, but that didn't stop me from making forward spars and four ribs that are now in the scrap bin.)

Since my scroll saw table tilt only goes up to 45 degrees, I had to take the complement (correct term?) of each angle (90 minus the angle). So, all the forward slots got cut at 32 degrees, and the aft ones at 15. I set the table angle with a protractor, as the handy little gauge installed on the saw is off by about 1.5 degrees. Pic 2 shows the forward, right spar being notched. Note that the term "RFC" is on the right end of it (in the picture), along with an arrow. I had to mark everything this way after I had figured out how the cuts had to be done. It means "Right For Cut", or, put this end to the right, dummy, when cutting. If I hadn't done this, I'm sure I would have gotten confused and ended up with a big mixture of angles, none of them correct.

Pic 3 shows the same process for rib W1, right side (bottom forward notch), and pic 4 the same rib, but the top, forward notch, all cut at 32 degrees. To do the top notch, it's necessary to turn the blade around backwards in the saw.

Pics 5 and 6 show the same rib, aft notches, which are cut at 15 degrees.

Pics 7 and 8 are the finished product, with rib W-1 fitted to the forward and aft balsa spars, and the 1/8x3/8 spruce cap spars shown at the forward locations only.

This process only took three days to figure out. I kept getting turned inside out and tied up in knots. If you're not confused now, you never will be. If someone replies with a really simple way to do this, I'm going to go fall on my sword.

Haven't quite figured out how to stick all this together. There's no flat surface on the ribs, so it can't be done on a building board. I'm thinking about using 12 small clamps to clamp all the "junctions" (where spars and ribs cross) together, then make sure I've got the TEs and LEs aligned, then sort of hold it over the plans to make sure all the ribs are pointing forward while the spars are aligned. Then maybe just tack glue all the balsa parts together with thin CA, enough so it'll hold it's shape when I remove the clamps and spruce spars. Finally, epoxy the spruce spars top and bottom, forward and aft and use the clamps again.



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Old 01-30-2007, 08:37 AM
  #21  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Here's the wing assembly.

Somewhere along the line, I had a mental block about the simplest wing alignment technique there is- tabs on the bottom of the ribs, near the TE. I've built several kits that used this approach, and in my own way, incorporated it in the fuse build for this bird. Just didn't think about it until last night, when the left panel turned out to have at least three ribs that weren't parallel to the others.

More later.
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Old 01-31-2007, 02:12 PM
  #22  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

OK, here's what I should have been doing from the start.

All the ribs are centerlined, so I measured down from the center to the widest point at the front, which is near the front spar. Then measured the same distance down from the centerline at the TE end to give the proper height for a removable tab.

Used 1/4 sq. balsa glued to the tab and tack glued to the rib near the forward spar location so that the ribs will all stay nicely upright, and can be secured with pins to the board.

I plan to cut those pesky 40 and 15 degree spar slots while the ribs are pinned to the board- using the actual spar as a guide so that everything fits real nice.
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:02 PM
  #23  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Here's the framed up left, inner panel, alone and approximately in position on the fuse.

By centerlining and tabbing the ribs, and making sure that each rib centerline was parallel to the board, the wing came out true. I now use a triangle and a straight edge to insure that the various pieces around the perimeter are exactly over the TE, tip and LE lines on the drawings, so that the outline exactly matches what the designer intended. Because the TE on the ribs comes to a point, where they a sheeted top and bottom and there is no actual TE piece, I chose to shove all the points against the straight edge. Then, looking at the LE, it became apparent that there were some minor errors in the rib drawings- 5 of 6 were short of the LE line, and one was a touch over. The final pic shows the pieces of either 1/8 square or 1/4 by 1/8 that was glued vertically to the LE of the ribs to get the correct length, and so that there would be enough material to sand a bevel on each rib that matches the false LE strip.

After all the ribs were pinned down, I laid the 1/8x3/8 spruce spar caps on top of them, aligned with the drawing, and used them as patterns to ink the notch locations on each rib.
After the spars were epoxied in, and the false leading edge glued in place, the wing was rigid enough to remove from the board and turn upside down so I could do the notches for the 3/16 balsa web spars and the lower spruce caps. Same technique: lay the actual piece in position and draw the lines. I used a razor saw to cut notches in the ribs, and the scroll saw at 15 and 30 degree platform tilts to get the notches in the web spars. It all came out fitting really well and did not distort the wing when installed. Yippee!!

I think this project has taught me more about building than I've learned in a very long time.
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Old 02-04-2007, 03:08 PM
  #24  
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Made some progress in the last couple days. Completed and joined the main wing panels, along with the reinforcing in the center.

Cut the ribs for and built one of the tip panels. It calls for a 10 deg. dihedral, so I made two gauges and a couple gauge blocks to insure this. I'll use the same ones on the right panel. Pavel says just go ahead and sheet the ribs, no spars, etc. Couldn't do that, given my experience with the first two main wing attempts. So, stuck the false LE on, then made a notched, 3/16 web spar kinda like the main panels, but it won't have any caps. That should keep it all in alignment when I go to sheet it. I'll do the top first, with everything pinned down on the board.

Later.
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Old 02-04-2007, 08:37 PM
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Mustang Fever
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Default RE: F-4C Phantom - Pavel Bosak

Looks a little bit like a Phantom, now. That's it. I've had enough for one day. Tomorrow the top of the center wing section gets sheeted, so I can begin fitting it to the fuse.
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