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Norseman project

Old 12-20-2009, 01:57 PM
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Hughes500E
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Default Norseman project

Hey guys,
I am wondering if someone can help me out on a Norseman refit.
I picked up a beautiful scratch built 120 inch Norseman that has been on floats for its life to date. I am putting it on wheels and I want to make a few changes but I don't have a set of plans. If a knowledgeable builder familiar with Norseman's could share some dimensions with me I would be forever grateful.

I am mostly concerned with the size of the horizontal stabilizer and incidences of like models!

It would be great if I could get the wing span and horizontal stabilizer span
the wing cord and stab cord length
and the wing and stab incidences

Hope someone is willing to help me out!

Thanks in advance
Old 12-20-2009, 03:04 PM
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All Day Dan
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Default RE: Norseman project

What are the dimensions of the wing that you have? Dan.
Old 12-20-2009, 03:27 PM
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Hughes500E
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Default RE: Norseman project

I'll take a trip down to the shop and do some measuring!

I do know:
120 inch wing span
38 inch horizontal stab with a 10 inch cord
4.75 inches is elevator and 5.25 inches is stabilizer.

Old 12-20-2009, 04:42 PM
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Hughes500E
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Default RE: Norseman project

OK, I learned quite a bit already by doing that and I'm quite confident I found the problem or 80% of it.

120 inch wing span with a 17.5 inch cord
38 inch horizontal stab with a 10 inch cord
4.75 inches is elevator and 5.25 inches is horizontal stabilizer.

Incidences:

Stabilizer at 0 degrees wing is at -4
Wing at 0 degrees stab is at +4
Thankfully wing at 0 degrees, crutch is at 0 degrees stab is at +4

The pilot said it had elevator issues and he burried the nose in the water after fighting it for half a circuit.



Old 12-20-2009, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

The stab and wing on that plane has a constant chord, I believe. The wing area is 2100 square inches and the total horizontal area is 380 which is 18% of the wing area. This is kind of low but useable especially since you can't do anything about it. That plus four degrees incedance in the stab is probably the killer. That's a lot of down trim! Was it built in that way or does something look distorted or repaired. If you can, start it out at zero with respect to the wing unless someone else listening in is more familiar with this plane and has more accurate information. When you have completed you installation, put the CG 30% behind the leading edge of the wing or 5.25 iches. That's a safe place to start. Dan.
Old 12-20-2009, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Sounds like the hstab is set at to much positive incidence. Being a high wing airplane, it should probably be set a degree or so positive but 4 degrees sounds a little much for the wing being set at 0. The actual incidence of the hstab to the air will depend on how much of a downward angle the airflow hits the stab at after going over the wing. You'll probably have to adjust it, try it out and maybe readjust. It may also help to increase the incidence of the wings a degree or two. Good luck.
Old 12-20-2009, 09:04 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Thanks guys,
It was definitely built this way, no signs of any changes, repairs or alterations. It would be arduous to rebuild the stab but it has to come off anyway......... hmmmm. What would the target sq's be?

Thanks again for the replies!
Old 12-20-2009, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

I have designed my total horizontal area to be 25% of the wing area. I know it's way oversized for most scale models but it sure leads to a stable plane. Heare's an image of a Champ I did last year that was a big success. Dan.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Very nice Dan!

I have the Norseman stripped right down, boy that was quite the job. I am debating on rebuilding a larger stab!

It would be nice if someone would share the specs off a set plans!
Old 12-21-2009, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

At that size I'm going to guess that it's the old Ikon Northwest kit that you have. Perhaps someone can chime in and confirm this or not.

When you measured the wing incidence did you use the flat bottom of the wing as your reference or did you do it the RIGHT way and use the line from the very middle of the leading edge nose curve to the point of the trailing edge? Depending on the shape of the airfoil this can make a moderate to huge difference. It STILL sounds like the builder messed up but it may not be as messed up as indicated.
Old 12-21-2009, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Hi,
Thanks for the reply, it's a scratchbuilt plane, no kit and his own plans!
Incidence was measured from center LE to center TE for sure!
Old 12-22-2009, 12:42 AM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Fair enough. Sounds like he sort of screwed up when building in the angles then. Some major surgery is certainly called for.
Old 01-29-2010, 01:00 AM
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Hughes500E
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Default RE: Norseman project

It sure would be nice to have the recommended horizontal stab and wing incidences for such a plane ?

Anybody [8D]
Old 02-01-2010, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Somewhere I have a set of plans for an 84" version. If interested I can look for them and see what they say about incidence, even though it may not be scale.

Rick
Old 02-02-2010, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Hi there,
looking at the drawings and pictures at http://www.norsemanhistory.ca/ ,it seems like the stab is at zero to the thrust line and the wing at 1-2 deg positive.
If the wing loading is reasonable, and the CoG right, I would keep the scale stab area.

Lars
Old 03-12-2010, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: Norseman project

Hughes, according to the drawing I have (from Norseman) the wing is set at +3 degrees.
I have found no definative info on the stab. but the forementioned zero sounds about right.
I will PM you re somem other drawings I have.

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