Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

Unless I'm looking in the wrong places, it seems that websites selling plans don't do a great job at describing specifications/purposes/etc. for planes. I guess they assume that if you are smart enough to build your own, you can figure the rest out.

I'm looking for plans for a flat-bottomed, high wing trainer (preferably a Basic Trainer). The only Basic Trainer I can find is from RCM. It is a bit smaller than I want (it being 53" wingspan at approx 470 square inches) and was drawn up in 1968--I'm assuming some building techniques have changed since then. I was wondering what another good flat bottomed wing trainer plans exist out there that would take a ".40ish" engine.

Thanks.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

I think you'll find that most scratch builders are experinced flyers, and rarely (if ever) see a need to scratch their own trainer. Reason being is that there is a large choice of kits and ARFs now-a-days. Also, most beginners; ones who require a trainer, rarely have any 'expereinced skills' required to build an airplane. Kits and ARFs are the way to go. There are a few 60 sized trainer kits, such as the Great Planes PT 60, and there are even a few 1.20 sized trainers.

Unless you require a specific size, and for a specific purpose (other than to learn to fly) you'll be looking at kits. Forst first timers, kits are the way to go. You have everythign you need; parts, plans, and instructions. Some instrucitons / manuals even go as far as to teach some building techniques.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

First off GOOD FOR YOU FOR JUST SAYING "NO" TO ARF'S ! ! ! !

As for the bit of quote I would say that is a resounding NO to the construction methods. Woodworking practices have been established for a LONG time and nothing has changed in the past couple of decades.

For a nice trainer you have LOTS of options if you know some modelling history. If you check the RCM plans list you'll find a Telemaster. A finer 40 powered trainer is not to be had IMHO. It's a good, but not the fastest, build and a great flyer.

The wogz is right though. Not too many primary trainers around these days with the ARF's being so common. But if you go back in the plans listings to the 60's and 70's at RCM and Model Airplane News you should find lots of trainers.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

If it wins me some more points, I'll have to admit I was a bit saddened when I started reading RC magazines again lately after being away from that for a number of years--so many ARF's advertised. I would never have guessed that the industry would have moved that way. To each their own, I suppose.

I've build about 4 balsa models lately, three Guillows kits (two die-cut, one laser cut) and a Great Planes BLT. I don't have anything to really compare the quality with, but I know that each one went together much better than the previous one. So I think I'd have no problem putting together a simple airplane from plans. Which is actually one of the reasons I was thinking of building the Basic Trainer from plans: after the Guillows kits, I'm pretty sure I could handle something made from a bunch of sticks. Lots of cutting, but simple to do, too.

I have ulterior motives though. With the money saved on kits I'll be able to buy more equipment that makes the building easier and more fun. And, not having flown RC yet, it will make getting into the hobby a bit less expensive (The BLT has no electronics and is therefore grounded). I haven't yet joined yet, but I'm still trying to get over the $250 it will cost me to join our local flying club ($100 dues, $100 initiation and $50 for MAAC (the Canadian AMA) membership which provides insurance).

I add up all the costs and figure that I'm going to have to start saving for that Mexican vacation for my supportive wife.

Anyway, being a high school teacher, I have access to a wood & metal shop (and experienced wood and metal workers) and was already thinking of making an aluminum or ply template for the ribs and using a disk sander and a band saw to shape and cut slots in them by the stack. I'd even consider making enough parts for another wing, just in case.

But the best part of making a trainer for my first scratch built is that when it hits the ground for the first time and turns into more than its original parts, I won't care as much because then I'll never have to ask people to forgive its looks because "it was my first plane". And hey, it wouldn't have even cost me that much.

I'll check out the Telemaster on RCM.

Thanks.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

Hey Timepilot:

While checking out the Telemaster (good plane incedently) look at the PT series of planes. I believe that RCM has the plans for these traines also. An congrats on not going the ARF route.

Mark Shuman

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

I found the Telemaster to be large and slow. I also found it to be a difficult build compared to the other kits available.

Scratch building a trainer doesn't make a lot of sense to me considering the chasing around you will have to do rounding up all the various parts and wood sizes. My estimate is that you will spend more money rounding up parts than just buying a good kit. Additionally a good kit from Sig or Great Planes will have good clear instructions as well as clear full size plans. My first trainer was a Telemaster 40 and the second one was a PT40. I liked the PT better because it was more responsive. Later I trained one of my sons on a Goldberg Eaglet 20 which was a good fast easy build and flies very well. We hand launched it, incidently.

I see lots of people learn with ARFs and do quite well. We had a 13 year old learn quickly and easily on an Avistar with the semi-symetrical wing.

The Spad trainers take a lot of abuse and keep on ticking. Don't use a balsa trainer unless you have a good instructor. It's just too much work to demolish so fast without help.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

I built four trainer planes when I first started flying over fifteen years ago. Crashed them all trying to learn when I designed my own trainer plane. My first scratch built and my first success at flying. Why? Because I put into that plane all the elements I considered to be a good flyer. Generious wing area (78'' wingspan with 13" from LE to TE), large fuse (60 to 65" long) with twin rudders cantered out like the F-117. It was one of the best plane i've ever flown. With all that wing area, on windy days, it would glide forever - literally! It wasn't aerobatic but it was just right. It was based on the Trainer 60 plane. I say go for it and scratch build a trainer. It's basically a box with wings anyway. Just my two cents

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

Would a set of "Eagle 2" plans help you any? Let me know. Have a nice day.[sm=sunsmiley.gif]


In Christ,

Joel Chavez

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

Stripes,

If I'm going to learn to fly, I'll need a trainer. And I'm guessing that the trainer won't be the last plane I'll ever want to fly. And, I'm counting on my building skills improving so I'll be able to handle other projects later on. Anyway, I'd much rather crash my first mistakes!

Thanks for all the great advice so far. Hobby Lobby has Telemaster plans for about $17, RCM has P.T. 40 and RCM Basic Trainer plans for $8 & $6.... And then Joel's offer....

Is this what it's like for a women trying to decide what to wear when going out? :eek:

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

Go down to your local hobby shop and have them open up the kit for a good trainer. Mentally add up what you are going to have to buy to duplicate that. Look at the included hardware then look up at the parts board and what the separate prices are.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

While a SPAD may not be to your liking, the SPADET is a good trainer. It looks a lot like the Avistar, in fact you can shape the tail feathers any way you like it. Even if you don't like the idea of a coroplast airplane you can take the dimensions of the plane from the plans and build it from foam, balse, etc. I've been making them from foam board, then covering them with the plastic covering of choice. The foam board is smooth and looks like balsa sheeting when covered.

I've seen some sweet Spadets
http://rcgroups.com/gallery/data/513/17920spad1.JPG

Spadet plans here:
[link=http://www.spadtothebone.com/SPAD/Spadet/]http://www.spadtothebone.com/SPAD/Spadet/[/link]

just my $.02.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

Learning to fly RC can be a long painful process. What are your goals? To get a plane into the air soon and practice flying or to be spending time trying to create a kit in your workshop? Buy a first class kit like the Sig LT40 or Sig LT25, have fun building it and get it up into the air. If it crashes you will already know how it was built and you will be on the road to repairing it. Good luck.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

I have plans for a small 130cm (about 52 inches) model for a .15-.25 motor. It is a profile, but very easy to build. I have also made it about 10 months ago and learned to fly with it. Mine was so light that I could even hover!! Before it I ahve only flown a glider and I didn't have problems with flying this one. Right now I can do advanced 3d maneuvers. I had only about 5-6 flights on my trainer because I completely crashed it hovering DOD.
Best wishes,
Chris
P.S. PM me if you want those plans.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

What are my flying/building goals? For now, to get a trainer together so I can learn to fly, so a trainer would be the most logical thing to build next. Building is entertainment too, and I'd like to build something from plans.

Quicker, I've actually considered building the Spadet. I spoke with a local flying club member and he cautioned against it, said that SPADs were a bit erratic, was the word I believe he used. I wasn't sure if he was just a "Balsa Man" or was speaking truthfully about their flight characteristics. US Aircore has been around for a while, so I can't imagine that plastic planes are all that bad. So a SPAD like the Spadet would seem the ideal way to learn, and there is a good chance I'll build one anyway, just for fun. When I join the club I can always bring it down and have it checked out and can make up my mind then.

I downloaded the manual for Great Planes PT 40 from their website and got a bit of a reality check. While the Guillows models and the one electric I've assembled have given me an idea of how they go together, there are some new construction techniques and installations 'unfamiliar' to me where a kit would at least offer a bit more direction.

So, I'll likely get a kit for my first trainer, consider putting together a Spadet or a Debonaire next and build the following one from plans. That way I can at least be up in the air while I tinker around with the scratch built one.

Thanks all for your advice. It's been helpful.

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

I can say that SPADS are anything but "erratic", but what I have learned in this hobby is everybody is an expert :) As with any plane, it depends on if you take your time and build a straight, unwarped wing and fuse. I'm not a SPAD zelot...I will fly anything I can get my hands on, but I have a strong shade tree mechanic streak in me, so I find SPADS fun. For the last 2 years I've been doing 90% SPADs, but for the last year I've been building them mostly from foam board from the local art/craft store. They look like ARF's when I'm done.

My low wing SpadStick flies on rails and will fly hands-off. It's everybit as good of a sport plans as the others in my club in Omaha. You can see pics of it on my website

[link=http://rcsites.net/qcoldir/]http://rcsites.net/qcoldir/[/link]

Good luck, but mostly just start building something, find an instructor and have some fun!!!

RE: Basic Trainer Plans Wanted
 

Quicker,

What I like about the SPAD is the survivability, cheap cost and quick assembly. I too want to get involved in the sport for fun and a SPAD seems to fit the bill in many ways.

I quite like building models too and for the purist in me, I'm going to have to build some from scratch. Whether I end up flying them or keep them for display will depend a lot of what they look like when I'm finished. lol So far, it seems that I'm able to do a great job putting these things together, but I don't do as good of a job with the covering.

I can dress them up but can't take them anywhere! :eek: