Hey Gang,

As you all well know, the last few years the Navy has made it very hard on us to hold an event. But, we worked through it, and to the flyers that attended, you guys were great with putting up with these restrictions, and made the best of what we had to offer. I thank you guys for that!! Good times were had by all in spite of the Navy B.S. You guys left no trash, fully complied with the rules, and the roving night security gave us a great report to NAS Whiting Base Operations.

I've been holding off on posting anything about the status of Pensacola Jets this year. But, with time sliding by, I figured I need to post something in case folks are wondering what the plan is. What we have now is kind of a good news/bad news situation.

First, the bad:

The list of restrictions I was handed back in February, along with the briefings and info package the Airfield Manager demanded, were ridiculous. The restrictions were even MORE onerous than in the past...honestly, I didn't think that was possible, but it is. And my days of writing term papers are over, so I just wasn't willing to prepare this mega briefing paper. Per the Airfield Manager's request, last year I submitted a history of the event and an event plan for the Whiting Commanding Officer, but apparently saying "same stuff, new year" wasn't good enough this time. I heard she was chapped that I sent the briefing paper straight to the Skipper, and "info'd" her. Too bad the Airfield Manager didn't get sequestered!

So, for sure "Pensacola Jets" will NOT be at Holley NALF this year, if ever again at that location. It's just become "too hard" and restrictive. Just one example: unlike previous years, this year there was going to be ZERO relief on the "400 ft AMA rule" (I know, there is no official "rule", but the Navy thinks there is.) I've had guys say "how will they know?", but the point is it's just not worth the risk having some power-trip Airfield Manager say "you busted 400 ft" and then close the event down on us.

Frankly, and this is just my opinion, I strongly suspect the Navy has wanted the event to go away. NALF Holley is a great site, as all who've flown there can attest, but holding Pensacola Jets there has finally fallen into the "too hard" category. We were nothing but good stewards of the field, and were always grateful and appreciative to the Navy for allowing us to use their airfield, but apparently that means nothing to the current administration at Whiting.

Now for the good:

A fellow club member (Rocky) and I initally met with the FBO owner at Brewton Municipal Airport, Brewton, AL, back in April to see about holding a radio control event at the airport. They were VERY receptive to the idea. RC flying has been done at Brewton before as part of an airport "open house", and we got the distinct impression that holding an rc jet rally there would be something the airport and the city would like to see.

Just some preliminary info: Unlike Holley, RV parking ang camping are allowed. Unlike Holley, JetA is available on-site. Unlike Holley, a food/beverage vendor is allowed (and they know a good one). Unlike Holley, there is also the possibility of hangar space for overnight jet storage. And, the biggest difference, totally unlike the Airfield Manager for NALF Holley, they actually seem to want us there!!

Here's a link to the airport: http://www.airnav.com/airport/12J

With my crazy work schedule, Rocky has been taking point on the communications with Brewton. There was a change in the mayor, so our request got caught up in the bureaucratic shuffle. State of Alabama approval is also required, but we've been told this should be no big deal. In any case, Rocky is working with the City and the FBO, and we hope to know something soon. When I know more, you'll know more.

Now, if we are a "go" at Brewton, we just need a new name for the event...

Cheers,

Sluggo

Have you guys considered EGLIN AFB, the EGLIN AeroModers field for your host? While not exactly Pensacola still inside the pan handle

No, we haven't considered Eglin a viable option.. While I've never flown there, some club members are also members there, and have stated that the Eglin field has some obstructions that would make it less than desirable for a jet event.

Again, no first-hand knowledge, just passing along what I've been told.

Sluggo

the runway is 2 miles long, although only the first 700 feet of it is maintained by the RC club, however, if you did overshoot the runway, you would have a long way to bleed off speed.l

Only restriction I know is that you can't have a video camera inside any aircraft as its a military base.

I'd rather press on with Brewton for now.

No worries with military red-ass, hotels nearby, fuel at the field, food/beverage vendor on-site, possible overnight hangar space, RV-ing and camping allowed, close to I-65, etc., etc., etc.

Sluggo

Cool,

Hope you get something going, will be watching closely, I'm trying to get something going in Bunkey, LA:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/2R6


3005 x 75 paved runway, the airport is hardly ever used, in fact they don't even have there own phone number, you have to call the AUTOZONE which is built inside one of the hangar's, that is the main phone line. They would have no objections to a FLY-IN, we'll see what happens.

Sluggo,
Wow, can't tell you how disappointed I am to hear how recalcitrant (harsh, I now) the Navy leadership(?) is being with you. Good grief, what happened to the "can do" attitude you and I experienced in the Tomcat community and carrier aviation in general a few years ago?
Regards,
Gus

I hear you, Gus. Yes, this really is disappointing. Times have certainly changed out at NAS Whiting, and in my not-so-humble opinion, not for the better.

This event was great P.R. for the Navy and Navy/community relations. And, we always made a point of expressing to the Navy 'brass' at Whiting our gratitude. Unfortunately the Airfield Manager has adopted a totally inflexible, hard-line attitude. She has even gone so far as to warn us (me) against bypassing her and going straight to the CO. We had no choice but to look elsewhere.

Sluggo

The no RV restriction at Holley was what kept the MS gang from coming last year. This one sounds good, have y'all narrowed down the dates yet?

DR

DR, yep, we were aware that the ridiculous, arbitrary, "No-RV" rule was keeping folks away.

We have not firmed up any dates yet, but most likely it will be toward the end of October, no later than Veteran's Day weekend in November.

Sluggo

NIce. Brewton is closer for me anyways. Keeps us posted on the date, hopefully I can make it down. It is tough during football season but hopefully it will be during a dead week.

LOL...can't disagree with that!

Hopefully we'll have some firm info in the next few weeks.

Sluggo

Looks like a fantastic facility. Weather is usually great that time of year too. Count me in.

Sounds good!

Sluggo

UPDATE:

We have been approved by the Brewton mayor! The mayor has sent our "package" on to the state of Alabama for review and (hopefully) approval. From the sound of it, approval by the state is pretty much a given.

This is VERY preliminary, but we are tentaively looking at Columbus Day weekend in October, 11-14 Oct, Friday through Monday. From what I currently understand, the field would be available to us starting at noon on Friday, 11 Oct, all day Saturday and Sunday, and on Monday the 14th.

I realize this is kind of close to Super Jet South, but the Navy still impacts us at Brewton. The field is used by the training aircraft from NAS Whiting, and that forces us to look at federal holidays if we want maximum use of the field. So, it was either Columbus Day or Veteran's Day. The problem with Veteran's Day is that cold weather now is a potential problem, and being further north and away from the coast than Holley, the more likely it is to be quite brisk after a cold front.

Again, this is NOT firm yet...just trying to give y'all a heads-up. Once we are officially a "go" and have firm dates, I will post that here. I will also start a new thread specific to the event, and with the new name...just too far away from Pensacola to keep calling it that.

Thanks for your interest,

Sluggo

Sluggo:

I am glad you seem to have found a solution to your event. I wish you and the club all the best.

I think what you are experiencing with the Navy is probably occurring throughout the DOD. I know this is a little off track but let me share our experiences in dealing with the Air Force.

I am the president of the Tri City Flyers club located in the San Antonio TX area. For the last 42 years we have been flying (rent free) at the Randolph Air Force Base auxiliary field in Seguin TX. This field is an old World War II training field that has two of the old runways (now taxiways) and a current up to date 9,000 ft. runway. The 9000' runway is the only one the military currently uses for touch and go's during the week. We have access to the field on weekends and federal holidays. In 2007 we signed a more formal lease with the Air Force (again at no cost). This lease expired in 2012 and when we went to meet with the Air Force to discuss renewal, we were informed that the lease would not be renewed. Upon receiving this news we asked for a meeting with the commander that oversees the real property section of the air force (they are responsible for everything that happens on the property). Once we had the meeting we discovered a number of things. First, we knew that the civilian that oversees the real property/leasing group did not want us on the property and that her supervisor REALLY did not want us on the property. We found that once we got past the civilians and discussed the issue with the military we made some progress. We had 10 meetings with the military. During these meetings I took our AMA Dist. VP and our AVP, to the meetings. We made a number of power point presentations to the commanding officer ( a Colonel). Finally, the Colonel we briefed decided to elevate the issue to the one star General that oversees all of the military bases in the area (Army and Air Force). A letter form her indicated that they wanted to renew the lease but it would have restrictions as well as an annual lease cost based on the fair market value (FMV) of the property. In November 2102, we agreed to pay the Air Force $100 per month for the field until the fair market value appraisal was completed. Currently we are paying the $100 per month until the FMV is complete. I am not very optimistic that we will be able to afford the FMV lease cost. The reason I say this is that about 15 years ago, one of the other clubs in the area was flying on some property that was owned by the military (Brooks Army Medical Center). When the military deeded the property to the city of San Antonio, the city offered to lease the flying site to the club for $60K per year. Needless to say, the club passed n the deal and had to find another place to fly. I think that our club is in a similar place.

Prior to our current $100 per month agreement we had full access to the 400 acres. With this access we were able to let the free flight community have events at the field (the field hosted the 1981 Nats as well as three U.S. Free Flight world team selection contests). Our new agreement now allows access to one of the taxi ways and we can only overfly 26 acres (about 450' deep and 2300' long).

Here is what I have learned. In 2007, shortly after our lease was signed, the DOD issued/sent a letter to all branches of the service stating that from that day forward, there would no longer be rent free access to any military property. Supposedly, this was to include ALL entities (non profit as well as for profit groups/companies) that were not sponsored by a military unit. Our club is a not for profit and even though we offer free membership to ANY active duty military person in the metroplex, we have flown in every air show at Randolph AFB since 1985, we contribute to the Combined Federal Campaign and have for many years, and about 80% of our members are active duty/retired military or prior service, the air force does not care. I have talked to some of the clubs on the west coast and clubs like the one at Edwards AFB in CA. are experiencing similar issues. Additionally, in e-mails with AMA folks on the west coast, some clubs that have been flying on government property are facing loss of their fields.

I am sorry for hijacking your thread but I thought that I would share our club's experience with those on RCU and hopefully provide a little insight into what seems to be happening within the DOD. If anyone is having a similar experience and would like to discuss what he have done I would be happy to discuss it with you. Just send me a PM or E-mail. If e-mail please put "flying field" or similar in the subject line.


Sincerely,
Ed

P.S. IF you feel that this post is inappropriate, please let me know and I will remove it.

Not inappropriate at all. Very informaitve and certainly a sad turn of events especially seeing how large an asset to the Military you guys are/were. Seems the way of the future, so sad. I wish common sense and common decency would become the norm again.

There are a couple of things I neglected to mention so I would like to take this opportunity to add a little more detail.

First, if we were to get the lease there is a very good chance that all members who fly at the field and do not have a military ID (retired, active duty, dependent or civil servant) would be required to have a background check and be vetted in order to get on the property. This may or may not be required but we will have to wait and see what the Air Force says.

Second and probably most importantly, Bob Brown, Dave Mathewson and others within the AMA HQ staff have been kept in the loop for all of this so they do have some knowledge of what has transpired. During this process I discussed different approaches to the problem with our AMA Dist. VP, our AVP and the HQ staff. In the end I determined (after conferring with some senior high ranking retired military officers, our AMA VP and AVP as well as the HQ. staff) that the best path was to try to work this locally and not escalate it to DOD HQ or to our state or federal elected representatives. My thoughts on this were that while we may have been able to get the elected officials to "force" the Air Force to renew the lease at an affordable cost, the down side was that because the air force was "forced" to offer the lease, they would take every opportunity to break the lease if we violated the terms of the lease. In fact, the civilian we worked with (one of the ones that wanted us off "their property") told us that she lived in the area and if she observed us violating the airspace restrictions, she would terminate the lease immediately. Now, we go back to one of the original posts by sluggo regarding the violation of the max altitude restrictions. As he mentioned, the Navy or in our case the Air Force might not catch us but what happens on the one occasion when we were caught. I have told our club members that if they violate the requirements of the lease, they face removal from the club because it is not worth risking loss of the field because of the actions of a few.

In closing, if your club or a club you know of, is encountering problems feel free to contact me and I can discuss "lessons learned". Additionally, one of the things that came out of this process is that the AMA HQ staff have formed a team that can/will advise clubs on how to proceed if they are encountering problems with use of government property. If you are having a problem, please contact Dave Matheson or Bob Brown at AMA and ask for assistance.

Ed

Ed, you're not hijacking the thread at all. Thanks for the info.

Sad it has comw to this with the DoD.

Sluggo

To anyone that might be following this:

The event is off. I have been through a mess of bureaucracy with the city of Brewton and the state of Alabama. We got approval, then whoaaa, not so fast, then the run around.

So, at least for 2013, there will be no "Pensacola Jets", or even a relocation of the event (with a new name) to Brewton, AL. We have an alternate plan, and I will get that out "through the grapevine." You may PM me for details.

Sluggo