I just purchased a new Rhino (remember the 30 lb class thread?), well, after around 12 flights I started having problems with the turbine catching on fire throught the tailpipe end. The turbine would start its ramp up, shut off the propane, run up to about 3/4 running speed and then all the sudden flame out with fire comming out in copious amounts. After it happened three times in a row, I called Eric (after hours of course - he always answers btw). He told me that it was probably the bendix on the starter motor not disingaging. If this happens the turbine will ramp up but the starter motor is still engaged causing drag on the turbine. Simutaneously the ECU is calling for more fuel. End result FIRE!

Eric asked me to unscrew the motor cap, pull the motor away from the turbine and then run the motor starter test through the ECU control box. When I did I noticed that the bendix was sticking forward and not retracting when I turned the motor off. Eric advised that if this occured I carefully apply some WD-40 with a cuetip or something similar to the bendix without getting it on the black O-ring. I did this, ran the test again, and this time it retracted. I then put everyting back together and had approx 20 starts and stops without any fire issues. Problem completely corrected. Again, before I did this it flamed up 3 times in a row.

I understand that Jetcat's ECU will actually read the turibine RPM on rampup and match the pump voltage and compare it with a safety parameter and actually shut the engine down if the RPM's of the turbine don't match the correct rpm of the motor. Correct me if I am wrong but that sounds like a good idea until something goes wrong with that sync and you have starting issues.

All in all, I am very satisfied with how Eric has helped me out with this issue. I heard that a few other people have had this problem. This is definitely the fix for this problem if you have experienced it. Hope this helps someone who is going through the same issues.

Andy

After 500 turbine flights, you'll have seen it all and diagnose and fix this stuff on your own.

Glad you got taken care of.

Sean you have been a great person to talk to for advice but are you saying that you would have diagnosed this problem yourself? Even Eric thought it was wind blowing up the tailpipe at first.

Andy

When you've seen the inside of these, and been through the ram days, ya, I would have just jerked on the front of the engine during start up, or used a leaf blower to start it and just disengaged the motor to get me through the day.

lol, your great man. I hope to meet you some day.

Someday you'll have a hot engine that rubs the ngv. Talk about weenie roasting! Until I figured out you could get in there with an exacto knife and scrape the metal to create enough room, I was cooking the stabs on my Kingcat!

I'll be at Lubbock, maybe Shreveport, and Greater Southwest, and close the year up at FIJR.

You're welcome to a cold one, hope you play cards.

Sean

Don't listen to him Andy! Drink his beer but DO NOT PLAY CARDS WITH HIM, HA.

Hey, I've never played cards before














with Andy

i got a wren 54 mk3 had a simular prob turned out it was the ecu stopped the turbine then restart mean while fuel pump was at full wattage behold a big blue flame out of the arse

Andy, another way to assist the sticking clutch scenerio is to use fine shaved graphite dust, its easy to obtain from any lead pencil
the advantage here in using the graphite dust is its a dry form of lubrication and works great for certain metal part components such as the E-starter clutch assembly. I personally never use any liquid based lubes on the starter clutch mechanism as the centrifical load always tends to eventually send liquid lubes ie oil, WD-40 etc where you did not intend like the clutch O ring, even if only a small amount is used. Give the graphite dust a try and see if that helps.....

Cheers- Marty

A couple of other tricks to help throw the bendix back into it's parked position and keep it there are to use a momentary reverse emf to the starter and have a thin steel flange machined as part of the bendix/clutch rear, taking advantage of the e-motor magnets to help hold position.

Long time no hear Marty you seen/heard anything of CM lately?

Rob.

That is correct. If the ECU increases the pump voltage and the engine RPM does not follow, the ECU will shut the turbine down with a "fuel fail" message. This also catches malfunctioning fuel pumps. I'm surprised that the Artes ECU doesn't do that...

Bob

Andy and Marty,

It can happen of the engine to inhale the graphite and obstruct the injectors. We had this problem with our KJ66, and, we decide polish the nut of the compressor and bendex and change o'ring for a new measured. The problem was decided satisfactorily. I hope helped the problem. [sm=wink_smile.gif]

regards
JR

JR- Wow thats a new one on me... obstructed injectors, never had a problem on my engines using graphite powder for clutch lube, I use so little I cant imagine how it would ever cause injectors to get blocked. That said I tend to work the graphite dust well into the mechanism manually then use a compressed air gun to blow away residue. I have had clutches slip though nearly every time I tried even just a miniscule drop of light oil or WD, usually then only get a start or two at best before slipping starts...


Rob- Yes been a while eh mate, sorry Ive been pretty busy moving and renovating new house and also been away with the UAV's alot of late. Also not heard from CM since earlier this year.... Ive just sent you a PM re- parts availability.

Cheers- Marty

Marty,
I wait not to have problems, but, in case that it has I go to try the graphite as you it said. In the KJ66, really the problem was great, needs to polish the nut and bendex, to solve definitive.

JR