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$250 villain mods?

Old 03-10-2006, 10:17 PM
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cr85nut
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Default $250 villain mods?

Decided that i didn't want to change my villain 7.2 to a 2 battery pack boat. But I do want to get a little more speed out of it with maybe new motors and an esc but dont want to go crazy with it. I only have $250 and i need batteries, maybe motors, esc, and a good charger. Any ideas on what i should get?



I was thinking of these mods,

DuraTrax IntelliPeak AC/DC Twin Pulse Charger.

Sharpend and balanced octura props.

Novak super duty esc.

4-duratrax 6 cell 3600mah packs
Old 03-10-2006, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

cr85nut,

Can't give advice on motor choice for the Villan as I have never owned one but maybe a bit on the other items.
- Purchased a 'Scratch and Dent' DuraTrax IntelliPeak AC/DC Twin Pulse Charger, it's great so far.
but if you're patient a cheaper (single charger) will work....something that discharges maybe
- Learn to balance and sharpen your own props, there are quite a few good articles on the 'net'
the balanced props that you find for sale are done by masters, great workmanship, but there is value in doing it yourself
- Can't speak for the Novak esc but make sure it can handle the current draw of your motors
- If they are NiMh, they will be average so get a good deal on them, if they are NiCad, avoid them
Old 03-13-2006, 12:58 AM
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mocars2
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Well I've seen you read Torquer's posts on hys 27.2MPH one using those Johnson motors 63705 that are pretty cheap on FLEEBAY for $9. Actually if you copy his setup I bet it would be under your $250 max. You could pick up some gp3300 from Radio Shack for $25 or look on Fleebay for some new or used ones.
Old 03-13-2006, 01:45 AM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

those jonson motors are great i got one for my air boat and they can run off 14.4v iam running mine on 12v and it has heeps of power i got mine form my mums dustbuster that dident go[](cos i got the motor[>:] he....he) . if i were you i would go to my local vacume cleaner place and get 2 2nd hand dust busters(most proably $5each) and take the motors out of them and put them in your boat i think they are equivelent to a 700bb race i dont know. just mu 2c


Matty_C
Old 03-13-2006, 03:26 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Thanks for the replys guys. I will mostly be running in choppy water so i dont need to have my boat go that fast. But it would be nice to have those motors incase i do. Whats the least amount of cells that i could run to get the boat running 20mph or higher. Would 2 6 cell packs do it? and what is the cheapest esc i could by to handle those motors and 12-14 cells. Sorry for so many questions but i just wanna make sure i spend my money on the right things.

Thanks,
-Matt
Old 03-14-2006, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Hey everyone, just got back from Costa Rica Hope everyone is doing well.
Yes the johnson motors will handle and like the 14 cells. As a matter of fact I have learned that the Johnson motors like more than 7 cells each. So maybe consider 16 cells. But if you are going to run it faster and with more cells, I suggest the Jeti-600 ESC it is a great water proof ESC and its water cooled and will handle up to 30 cells and I believe 60 amp max You can get it for $73.99 from offshoreelectrics.com
Just take it easy. if you don't have the money to do it the reall nice way, then do it one thing at a time as you get the money, Don't do it the quick cheap way, you will be dissapointed. Start out with a good charger and some good batteries. The duratrax ICE charger will charge up to 10 cells at up to 6 amps. That is alot faster and better than a "cheap charger" and it will do LiPo's when you are ready for them. The Duratrax Ice will set you back about $119.00 Then go to www.cheapbatterypacks.com for the batteries. They have very good batteries at a very good price and they do custom packs for your specific needs. They made two 8 cell 3300mah GP packs that I run in my Aquajet Extreme. Then when you are ready, get the Jeti-600. That will handle most anything that you are going to do with that boat. Do some more research on the Johnson motors, I think you may have to take them apart to adjust the timing on a twin motor boat because they have to turn in opposite directions, I read thread on this and to me it doesn't look like anyfun. If anyone says its easy and takes 15 min, then ask them to do it for you for free When getting motors for it I would suggest getting something that you can adjust the timing easily on. and you need alot of torque so stay between 15 and 19 motors. Don't forget you will also need water cooling. When you start hopping up a boat, it is best to water cool it the best you can, The water jackets from offshoreelectrics cool alot better than the coils you see everywhere.
If you get a good charger and batteries, that is the best start. If you get 540 size motors then don't go for more than 14 cells or you will melt them.
Take your time and do it right. Don't buy some lame charger and cheap batteries from radio shack that you will regret later[:@]
Old 03-15-2006, 07:03 AM
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Torquer
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?


ORIGINAL: grk65

Do some more research on the Johnson motors, I think you may have to take them apart to adjust the timing on a twin motor boat because they have to turn in opposite directions, I read thread on this and to me it doesn't look like anyfun. If anyone says its easy and takes 15 min, then ask them to do it for you for free
lol...[sm=lol.gif]


I agree with starting with good cell and a good charger...
I'd get some good loose cells from BattlePacks.com and build your own packs...either IP3800 or GP3700. Get a good charger as well that can charge many cells. I use a Triton and have found it to be an awesome charger that's full of features and can charge from 1 to 30 cells all at a great price.

Then as spending money is earned, get a good speed control such as the Jeti. Then find some motors...


Old 03-15-2006, 02:59 PM
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cr85nut
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Torquer, how hard is it to make your own packs i noticed that loose cells are alot cheaper than ready made packs. How hard is it to make a pack whats involved?

Im thinking of running almost the same set up as you super duty esc and modified johnson motors. Have you tried that setup with 12 cells i might do that because its hard for me to get money and it would be cheaper to buy 4 12 cell packs or make 4 packs rather than 7 cell packs. i would be happy if i could heven get it to 20mph.

Do you think that will work?


thanks,
-Matt



p.s. Is there anything you would have changed on your setup or something that you dont really like?
Old 03-15-2006, 04:56 PM
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mocars2
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Those Johnsons can handle 6 or 7 or 8 cells no problem - the more the better. Get some loose cells and making you own isn't hard. Or pick up 3 6 packs from Radio Shack and break apart the 3rd pack. Or check Ebay for some good used packs - I just got 6 7cell packs gp3300 and 2 1900 packs for $60 shipped sure they are used but most battery can be recharged 500 times if taken care of. So let's see
2 motors - $25
ESC - Jetti $75
Batteries - $75
Charger - $75
there's your $250
Maybe look for some used stuff like the Charger and put the extra in props.
Old 03-16-2006, 10:26 AM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

To make your own packs you will need a good soldering iron with a good wide tip. It is also nice to have a sodlering iron that you can change the tips cause you will need a small tip for those small jobs I use the Hakko 936, its a very nice soldering system with temp control, so you don't burn out your irons when left on too long. Also if you don't have a wide tip you can burn your battery. Make sure you only heat the surface of the battery for less than 15 sec. It is also wise to sand the surface before you begin. The Hakko 936 will set you back about $119.00. Or you can go get a cheap iron with no temp control and unknowingly over heat batteries and ruin their run time. This is one reason why you see some guys ask why their 3300mah batteries only have 5 min run times on low amp draw applications.
Oh, another nice tip is to put a small silicone beed between the batteries to hold them together while you solder them so they are nice and straight. I have what is called a speed jig, but it only works for up to 6 cells, If I'm making a 7 or 8 cell pack I use the speed jig for the first 6 because it holds the batteries nice and straight and has a clip that holds the battery bar in place while you solder it.
Step 1: Sand the surface of the battery to be soldered.
Step 2: Sand the battery bar.
Step 3: Heat soldering Iron.
Step 4: heat sanded area of battery very quickly and put a small amount of solder on it and rub it in circles till it melts and sticks.
Step 5: cool that end of the battery quickly with a wet sponge from you soldering iron kit. The secret is to not let the battery get too hot. Continue this process till all the batteries have solder on the ends.
Step 6: Silicone the batteries together, upside down to each other.
Step 7: Hold the battery bar down on the two ends of the batteries you are going to solder together, hold the soldering iron down on the top of the battery bar and after 2 seconds start putting solder on the iron to melt it down on the top of the battery bar, this will help spread the heat and quickly melts the solder you put on the battery before. once you get boat ends of the battery bar soldered, quickly cool both ends. Continue this process till all batteries are soldered together.
Step 8: Solder the wires and connectors on. I use Deans plugs for least resistance and best performance. They are the most widely used in the industry by pros.
Another reason to not buy poor quality packs is because they don't use battery bars. They use cheap thin tin bars that are just spot welded. I have taken these appart and was very dissapointed in the quality. Cheap packs generally don't last half as long as a good pack.

If you are like me and many others on this forum that are serious about this hobby and you stay in it for a long time you will realize, the more you try to save now by buying the cheap stuff the more you will spend later on the nice stuff. Save yourself the time and money and do it right the first time.
When I started I bought a cheap iron with no temp control, and ruined batteries and eventually burned out the tip. I then bought the Hakko and have been much happier with it. I also used to buy cheap battery packs and all but too soon had problems with them. Since I started buying good batteries I have not had a pack go dead yet. I also bought a cheap charger and soon learned it would not do all I wanted it to do, so I bought a nice charger.
I could have saved myself alot of money if I had of listened to some of the guys that were advising me to buy the good stuff and not the cheap stuff. Saving money now sometimes means spending more money later.
Old 03-16-2006, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Yeah I hear that. By good, don't buy cheap! The charger especially. I went through 2 or 3 different chargers because I didn't want to spend a few extra bucks on a nicer model. Well guess what I'm using now...the nicer model. Now I use the Triton, it does just about everything you'd ever want to and then some.
Old 03-17-2006, 08:04 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Thanks for the reply i really appreiate all of your help and input.

I found this pack at tower hobbies. How do you know if it is a good pack?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLFW5&P=0

would 2 of those powering to modified johnsons with either a super duty esc or a jeti 600 esc be a good setup?
Old 03-18-2006, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

That pack will be fine for messing around, but don't expect them to last more than one season. Also you may experience the "cheap pack phenomenon". Thats when the pack will run at peak performance for a very short period and then it will slow down and run at the slower level for an extended period of time. This happens to "UNMATCHED" packs. Also you will notice it had that old cheap Tamiya plug, there are problems with that, just ask anyone also that pack does not have high grade battery bars. If you plan to change the cheap Tamiya plugs to Deans, thats more money you will spend to make that cheap pack work. Just do your self a favor and atleast go to www.cheapbatterypacks.com and select the custom pack tab and elect everyting you want about the pack, at the end make sure you select yes for the battery bar upgrade and make sure you select Deans plugs and 12 AWG wire, and see what price you get. You will be supprised at how much little more a REAL GOOD pack is.

Just to prove it to you I just went there and selected a custom build like the one you are looking at, except it is a much nicer pack it is seven 3600mah cells with good battery bars, 12AWG wire and deans plugs. The price is $42.70. and that my friend is well worth the $5.00 difference. Plus it will last you at least 3 seasons. You just have to learn to look for the better deal.
Here is the link
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp
Check out the new IB 4200's while your there, yes they cost more, but what a pack they would make
Old 03-19-2006, 10:26 AM
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cr85nut
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Thats web site does seem pretty cheap.


They have an elite3600 cell for $5.35

and

They have an IB3800 cell for $6.50.

Is it worth spending the extra $1.15 for the Ib3800? Will there be a noticeable difference?



Thanks,
-Matt
Old 03-19-2006, 12:55 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

The 3800's and 4200's are only worth it if you are a racer or just have the extra money. If you are just having fun, the 3300's and 3600's are fine. I don't think the 3000's or less are good for anything other than starter boxes or similiar application, at least untill the "WOW" factor wares off the 3800 and above and prices drop.
Old 03-26-2006, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Will the difference between the elite 3600 and the IB3800 be noticeable in speed or run time?


Thanks,
-Matt


p.s. heres my boat family (the cat and enforcer are my brothers)




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Old 03-26-2006, 06:58 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Also whats the best 7 cell configuration to fit under the hatch of the villain? It seems that the floor of the cockpit leaves no room for batteries.
Old 03-31-2006, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Would a jeti 600 esc with 2 graupner 700bb turbos on 14 cell be a good setup? Will the villain hull handle it if it is that fast with only 14 cells?


Thanks for all of your help.

-Matt
Old 04-04-2006, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: $250 villain mods?

Any thoughts?

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