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-   -   Valvryn Proboat Horizon Not Working (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/speed-electric-109/11680794-valvryn-proboat-horizon-not-working.html)

Hydro Junkie 08-03-2020 01:20 PM

Actually, the removal and installation is very similar. Just look in the same location as shown in the video above, between the motor and shaft tube. You will see a cone shaped part screwed onto a hex shaped part. These two parts, plus one inside, are called a collet assembly. You will need a pair of appropriately sized wrenches or, if you don't have them, adjustable wrenches. You just hold the hex shaped part with one wrench and turn the cone shaped part toward the boat's left side to loosen, then the shaft should pull right out. You don't have to totally disassemble the collet or use thread lock on it. Otherwise, the process for both boats is the same. Be sure to leave a gap between the prop drive dog and the rear of the part the shaft comes through. One thing that would help is to know how thick the drive shaft is. If you have some way to measure it, it would be a great help

ross100 08-03-2020 01:41 PM

Yipeeeee!
 
Thanks bud, think Iíve got that! Ordering two adjustable wrenches on amazon now. Not sure what you mean about leaving the gap, whatís the dog thing you mention? Warmest Regards.

Ross

ross100 08-03-2020 01:44 PM

Ps
 
Ps yes sir, will get the thickness of the drive shaft to you. Thanks a mill, youíre teaching me a lot here, much appreciated.

Ross

ross100 08-04-2020 07:22 AM

Horaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
 
Hey man, got the flex tube out of the atomic with your amazing advice, you are a superb teacher! I used two 10mm wrenches and followed your advice. Well done. Can you tell me please how far along I grease the cable before putting it back on and where to leave the gap. Warmest Regards.

Ross

ross100 08-04-2020 08:44 AM

Some more questions please
 
Since the boat drive uses a twisted cable to drive the prop, make sure there's space between the prop drive dog and the outdrive. If there isn't any or very little space, you will have the same issues as the other boat
2) On the motor output shaft, there is a coupler that connects the cable to the shaft. You need to remove the retaining screw that holds the cable. Pull the cable out, by the prop, and make sure it has some grease on it. If it looks dry, don't try to run it until you can grease the cable. Be sure to NOT get grease on the end where it goes into the coupler or it could spin or, worse yet, come out on the water. Make sure, when you put the retaining screw back in, that you use blue or orange thread lock on the threads

Hey bud, I have just read all your posts again to me and itís making a lot more sense now. Sorry if I am asking same questions again, but in terms of my atomic SR85, green one. I watched the red atomic vid you sent from Aussieland and that looks a much smaller one. I have pasted some of your post above to ask some questions please. I have flex cable out Of atomic SR85 and will marine grease soon.

i donít understand what means when you say to make sure there's space between the prop drive dog and the outdrive.

You also said chief, cable. Be sure to NOT get grease on the end where it goes into the coupler or it could spin or, worse yet, come out on the water. Make sure, when you put the retaining screw back in, that you use blue or orange thread lock on the threads.

Think understand that canít get grease on metal rod Of motor or Flex cable that goes into collet assembly, is that right bud? Iím totally confused where to put the blue thread lock, Iíve ordered the blue one on amazon after you advised me in terms to stop the binding.

you also said leave space between the outdrive (whats the outdrive again)? Is that the silver tube bit on the atomic that is behind the gold thing with the grub screw behind the propeller. You said it turns back and forth at the end of the boats drive dog. Is the drive dog on my atomic SE85 the bit with the grub screw behind the motor? You said think the drive dog is the silver bit in front of the propeller.

Sorry so many questions, but should the propeller be be bolted tight to that bit with the grub screw behind it or is that where I leave the 2 to 3mm gap as know you said flex cable shrinks when under load when boat is running. Hope youíre well and thanks for everything.

Ross


Hydro Junkie 08-04-2020 02:29 PM

Okay, I'll try to make this as easy as possible:
1) Since you now have the shaft out of the boat, you can see it's a cable. They used a cable to make it so the drive shaft doesn't have to be straight.
2) Unfortunately, since they used a cable, it requires greasing to it doesn't drag on the inside of the tube. IF it drags on the inside of the tube, it will drain your batteries faster and can cause issues with the motor and speed controller, starting with getting hot.
3) As far as where NOT to apply grease, leave the end that doesn't have the prop bare for the last half inch or last 1.5cm. This is where the collet clamps down on the cable and holds it in the boat. IF grease gets there, it will affect how well the collet holds the shaft
4) At the prop end of the drive shaft, you need to make sure the nut holding the prop against the silver drive dog is snug. If you go too tight, it will damage the prop. In fact, I would recommend a metal prop instead of that plastic one as plastic props flex under load, costing you speed and, unlike a metal prop, the plastic ones can and will break
5) When you reinstall the shaft, you need to leave room between the drive dog and the black part that's bolted to the back of the boat. That part is called a strut It's job is to make adjusting the props's depth and angle, things you don't need to worry about now. The reason you need to leave a gap between the silver drive dog and the black strut is that the drive shaft will shorten under load. When that happens, it will drag on the strut, again costing speed and using up your battery faster. IF the cable is long enough, you need to leave a space between the drive dog and strut, preferably a wide as the cable is thick. That is the general rule we use when setting up our racing boats. What can help you to know if you have enough cable to leave that big of space is to put the shaft back in but don't put it into the collet just yet. INSTEAD, stop when the cable reaches the collet and measure how much cable there is between the strut and the drive dog. This is important as it will tell us how much cable we will have inside the collet when the cable is tightened. This is also why I asked how thick the cable is.

ross100 08-05-2020 03:53 AM

You are superb!
 
Hey bud, I must stop and just thank you again profusely for all the time and effort you have invested in me to solve my problems with the atomic SR85. You have just taught me so much and enthused next about continuing with rc speed boats and to learn more. Iím a teacher myself (not physics though!) and you have just conveyed everything to me with crystal clarity. I would really like to send you something from Scotland to say thank you and keep you as a bud/ rc boat mentor in the future.
Totally understand though if you have had enough of me though!

I have followed your most recent list and think Iíve done it on my atomic! Hooorah!! Well, will better refrain from being too cocky and wait until itís run on the stand and out on the large boating pond where I live. The boat does have a metal propeller and Iíve ordered another metal one to replace the plastic one in my other boat.

Chief, where do I put that blue thread lock again which still waiting from Amazon for, I didnít understand that bit? I measured the thickness of the flex cable which is 4mm and left that distance between the drive dog and the silver vertical attachment bit on the atomic (not black like on valvryn). Think you said this vertical attachment bit on rear of boat relates to propeller angle/depth, But I donít need to worry about that. Left motor end ungreased as you said for 1.5cm length. I had about 1.8cm of the flex cable free I think when just reached the collet like you asked me to do, so 4mm space from between drive dog and silver vertical bit not a problem. Interesting that this space has to equal the cable thickness, didnít know this rule and sobering else Iíve learnt from you.

I got my money back for the Valvryn just to keep you in the loop. Iíve decided not to buy another One, despite love how the valvryn looks. Iíve read mixed things about it and watched experienced people on you tube saying it only does about 25mph and sounds rough and not 30mph plus like it says on the box with 4S. Iím going to run the atomic and with your help if you agree. Then I will buy another boat with my valvryn money, so feel free to recommend a rtr self righting boats to me that run on 3S 5000mAh 11.1V lipos as now have two unused which bought with valvryn.

Kindest Regards bud and look forward to hearing from you.

Ross 👍🏻😎👍🏻

ross100 08-05-2020 10:59 AM

Joysway mad flow
 
Could you help me source a metal propeller to replace my plastic one please on my joysway mad flow boat. The nylon one has p1.4D35mm on it, whatever that means. Think you said metal and two blades will go faster rather than three blades. Thanks a mill chief, was looking on amazon there. Warmest Regards.

Ross

Hydro Junkie 08-05-2020 01:00 PM

Okay, let's take this one item at a time:
  • Thread lock goes anywhere you have a screw that is on a moving part. Your Atomic won't need it unless you want to make sure the screws holding the rudder assembly or motor to mounts won't back out. Thread lock is not needed any place you have locknuts as the nuts serve the same function. You would have needed it on the shaft coupling on the Valvryn.
  • So you understood about the spacing between the prop and strut, that's great to read. You probably noticed that the spacing is now considerably more than when you got the boat, something the people building them didn't understand or even know about. I'm just glad to read that you had the 1.4cm to go into the collet, shouldn't be an issue. I know, with a boat I built, it has a 47.4mm shaft so, when I cut it to length, actually had to do just the opposite. I had to put it all the way into the collet, measure the remaining space between the drive dog and strut, and cut it to length after doing the math. This is the advantage of cutting your own shafts, I don't have to measure it again, just stuff it in all the way and tighten the collet :cool:
Now, let's talk props. I'm far from an expert on them but what you gave, P1.4 D35mm means it's a standard size prop. The P 1.4 is talking about the blade pitch. In this case, the pitch is 1.4 times the diameter, given as D35mm. When you do the math, it works out to 1.4X35=49mm. 49mm is how far forward the boat should move forward for each full turn of the prop, IN THEORY. Like anything else, you won't get quite that much do to slippage or lost thrust due to various reasons. As for a source for props, I would refer you to a man here in the US, Mark Sholund. I recommend him for two reasons:
1) He does good work. Props he sells are balanced, sharpened and polished, unlike the props you buy online or from hobby shops where they are rough castings or crudely finished.
2) I've dealt with him so I know he's honest and fair. If he has the prop you need, ready to go, it will be shipped within a few days. If not, he will get one ready and ship within a few days of getting it done.
His website is:
www.props4u.net
His email address is
[email protected]
Next, the number of blades:
2 Blades
  • easier to balance since they are located directly across the drive shaft from each other
  • has a higher top speed due to less drag in the water
3 Blades:
  • harder to balance as you're dealing with three points, 120 degrees apart
  • accelerates faster due to 50% more push, IN THEORY
  • helps the boat corner faster to one side when used in a surface drive set up

ross100 08-05-2020 10:49 PM

Youíre a wee star!
 
Thatís ace chief, will get onto the prop guy straight away. Thanks so much for that Info. You have Taught me a lot about propellers andI will use the thrust/load principles when teaching my second year science classes in the future! Mentioning you of course youíre good self as the donor of the specialised knowledge.

No worries about the thread lock, will have the blue stuff for future reference when it arrives. Yes, Iíve learnt quickly rtr just means assembles, not tweeted for maximum performance. Will keep you posted bud, have a great day and talk soon.

Ross 👍🏻😎👍🏻

Ps you dodged my question about sending you something from Scotland to say thank you. Hope that youíre not being too modest [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/91aa4cf0-3293-46ac-ae36-0665db455f4e[/img]

Hydro Junkie 08-06-2020 01:02 AM

Trust me, there's a lot more to props than what I've told you. There's rake(the angle of the blade as compared to the hub and is totally different than pitch), there's cupping, several ways to cut a prop to make it work better on a specific boat and a few more that I'm not even sure what they're called. I only scratched the surface on the subject, Mark Sholund could probably write a book on the subject where I could only do a few paragraphs. That's also just the beginning of how much there is to the art of making a boat run and do so well. As far as thanking me, let's get the boat running first. I'd like to see a video of it running before we break out the ales, if you know what I mean. Same goes for a thank you gift, we can discuss that when the boat is running well enough to make you satisfied that it wasn't a waste of a lot of hard earned pence.
By the way, I haven't shown you what I play with yet. This is my fiberglass 1/8th scale 2000 Miss Elam Plus that I race with a local club. These things are not for the faint hearted. It's 109.2cm long,61cm wide, weighs 6.35Kg and will top out at around 100KPH with an 11cc .75Kw nitro motor under the cover
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/1...d0a973d93.webp
And a second, this one being built by my me from plywood, is 76cm long, 38cm wide and weighs in at 2.5Kg. Haven't put it to a real test yet as I'm still working on it, when I get the time
https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/att...4&d=1375582341

Does any of this shown below look familiar? The biggest difference is the collet is mounted on the output shaft of a Nova Rossi 3.5cc nitro-motor.
https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/att...6&d=1375587414

ross100 08-06-2020 03:55 AM

Yes I salute you!
 
Hey bud, your reply made me chuckle! Yep, totally agree with you, might take my atomic out on the local boat pond and it explodes 😎🙁😎🙁😎 Propellers, fascinating science and physics behind them. I will certainly read up on them further down the line, you have got me interested. Physics isnít my forte in science. Yes, some quality Scottish ales am sure await you my friend.

Wowsers! Love your boat, thatís seriously fast!! Yes I did recognise the bits and bobs after you taught me the names and locations. Must be incredibly satisfying for you to design and build your own machine, looks so streamlined and that motor is massive. Sent my email to the contact you gave me about the propeller and get my new lipo hopefully on sat. Will run and test the boat on the stand first as you advised. Warmest Regards, enjoy your day and talk soon.

Ross 👍🏻

Hydro Junkie 08-06-2020 04:24 AM

Um, just curious, which motor is massive, the 3.5cc you can see or the 11cc that you can't? There are classes of boats that run bigger, one of which I'm working on is a larger version of the second boat I posted pictures of. It's 130.3cm long, 59.5cm wide and powered by a 27cc petrol motor that requires aviation fuel just to get it to run. That last one actually scares me due to the size of it, that and the danger from the very large prop it will take to push it.
Time for bed, considering it's only 5:25 in the morning. Have a great day

ross100 08-06-2020 04:34 AM

Lol!
 
Lol! Yeah thought the first one had a big motor., maybe an optical illusion. Aviation fuel, you should be working for Nasa chief. Forgot you guys are about 7 to 8 hours behind us, is 1.30pm here just now. When I attach the the hexagonal first part of the collet back into the metal rod that conmes out of the motor, do I push the hexagonal part as far towards motor on the rod coming out that it will go? Warmest Regards and to you to my friend when your day starts.

Ross 👍🏻😎👍🏻

ross100 08-06-2020 04:45 AM

Another question please bud
 
The hexagonal bolt that holds the propeller on, when you say this bolt should be snug, should it be tightish against the propeller at the end? So that there is no space or movement of the propeller between that hexagonal bolt and the drive dog. Thanks a mill.

Ross

ross100 08-08-2020 02:22 AM

Back to the drawing board bud
 
So took the atomic SR85 down to the local boat pond today and still doing the same unfortunately. Turning circle seems pretty big, just put near side, starts to begin with, then just seems to take in some water, which donít know if the little volume is normal. Thatís with my new extreme pro 14.8V 5000mAh 80c lipo.

boats just seems to be cut off and refuses to move when on throttle chief, when being turned. Any ideas, maybe my celebrations were premature :( Hope that you are well.

ps boat seems to be leaning a lot but lipo is on one side

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 04:30 AM

There's a couple of things we can look at:
1) What is the speed controller rated at?
2) Is the prop hitting the rudder?
3) What were you using for a battery pack before?
Now, you said you were going to run it on the bench before you took it out to the pond. Did you do so and, if so, what did it do?
Just went and looked it up and the recommended battery is only a 25C. Something else I found is the ESC is rated at 60 amps. It's possible you're pulling too much power through the ESC and it's doing what we refer to as "thermalling" or shutting down due to too much heat.
Okay, let's try this:
Loosen the collet enough so the motor turns freely without spinning the prop, don't pull out the shaft. Now spin the shaft and see if there's any drag. It should turn easily so, if there's an amount of resistance, that's part of the problem.
If you don't feel any resistance, pull the shaft out just enough to clear the collet. Plug in a battery pack and turn on the motor, using the radio. Since there's no load on the motor it shouldn't get hot. If it does, within a few minutes, there's an issue with the motor. Check the speed controller as well, does it get hot? Unless the motor is pulling a lot of power, it should stay cool to warm, but not hot. I guess this is where we start troubleshooting.
As for the boat leaning to one side, is the low side where the battery is? If so, the battery pack is extremely heavy for that boat and could be part of the problem as well

ross100 08-08-2020 07:40 AM

Cheers bud
 
Cool, ok so thanks for the list and am working my way through the points and will answer your questions shortly bud 😎👍🏻

ross100 08-08-2020 08:29 AM

Whereís speed controller bud
 
Where the speed controller again bud on boat, the esc, is that the thing with the light?

ross100 08-08-2020 09:00 AM

Hey, not sure how to find what speed controller is rated at. No prop defo not hitting rudder. I was using two 2S battery packs before, 35c, 7.4V, 5000mAh before, but had the same issue as using this battery pack bud. Yes ran on bench like you said chief and rudder seemed to work fine left and right and so did throttle.

Just double checking my friend, was it the atomic SR85 green one you looked up. Motor didnít get hot when separated the collet from the axel rod coming out the motor, was that what I was supposed to do? Not sure what you meant about loosening the collet so that propeller doesnít turn to check resistance thing. Thanks for your help.

Ross🙁🙂

There's a couple of things we can look at:
1) What is the speed controller rated at?
2) Is the prop hitting the rudder?
3) What were you using for a battery pack before?
Now, you said you were going to run it on the bench before you took it out to the pond. Did you do so and, if so, what did it do?
Just went and looked it up and the recommended battery is only a 25C. Something else I found is the ESC is rated at 60 amps. It's possible you're pulling too much power through the ESC and it's doing what we refer to as "thermalling" or shutting down due to too much heat.
Okay, let's try this:
Loosen the collet enough so the motor turns freely without spinning the prop, don't pull out the shaft. Now spin the shaft and see if there's any drag. It should turn easily so, if there's an amount of resistance, that's part of the problem.
If you don't feel any resistance, pull the shaft out just enough to clear the collet. Plug in a battery pack and turn on the motor, using the radio. Since there's no load on the motor it shouldn't get hot. If it does, within a few minutes, there's an issue with the motor. Check the speed controller as well, does it get hot? Unless the motor is pulling a lot of power, it should stay cool to warm, but not hot. I guess this is where we start troubleshooting.
As for the boat leaning to one side, is the low side where the battery is? If so, the battery pack is extremely heavy for that boat and could be part of the problem as well
Quote Multi

ross100 08-08-2020 09:10 AM

Hey, check this!
 
No there seems to be resistance when Iíve loosened collet, press throttle, propellar should turn as expected. You said bud, it should turn freely, were you meaning when spin propeller and flex cable should move easily without resistance? Kindest Regards

Ross

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 09:24 AM

What I wanted you to do was to loosen the collet so you could pull the shaft out, but leave the shaft in the boat. Next turn the prop by hand and and see if there was any resistance to it being turned. If there isn't, the problem has to be either with the speed controller, which is the part connected to the motor by the three wires that come out of the opposite end of the motor from the drive shaft. According to what I saw in pictures online, it should be wrapped in a rubber sleeve to the motor's left inside the boat.

ross100 08-08-2020 09:25 AM

Pps observation
 
When throttle to max, propeller spins fast and when take finger off trigger, the rope lose judders up and down bit violentk at end. Is this relevant?

ross100 08-08-2020 10:05 AM

Ppps
 
Ppps soz, it couldnít just be the trim settings on the controller? Thanks and sorry so many questions

ross100 08-08-2020 02:37 PM

Chief, a thought?
 
Bud, whatís the purpose of that grub screw on drive dog as the drive dog canít be removed from the cable flex or is it a metal tube itís on. Am I right in thinking that the propeller should move a little at end between the drive dog and that hexagonal but at the very back? Cheers pal

ross100 08-08-2020 03:08 PM

Another random question
 
Mate, it talks about boat hull sitting too low in water and to angle the trim tabs at back of boat up. Where are these trim tabs located please? Over and out.

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 03:44 PM


Originally Posted by ross100 (Post 12623294)
When throttle to max, propeller spins fast and when take finger off trigger, the rope lose judders up and down bit violentk at end. Is this relevant?

Not really, What we were looking for is binding in the drive cable and issues with the motor and ESC. If you didn't feel any drag when you tried to turn the shaft, without the motor, that takes the shaft out of the equation

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by ross100 (Post 12623300)
Ppps soz, it couldnít just be the trim settings on the controller? Thanks and sorry so many questions

Not likely. The rudder trim controls fine adjustments on the rudder, left or right. It's there to help tune the boat to go straight with your hand off the steering wheel while the throttle trim does the same with the trigger response, nothing that would pretty much shut down the motor.

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by ross100 (Post 12623377)
Bud, whatís the purpose of that grub screw on drive dog as the drive dog canít be removed from the cable flex or is it a metal tube itís on. Am I right in thinking that the propeller should move a little at end between the drive dog and that hexagonal but at the very back? Cheers pal

The grub screw is there to keep the drive dog locked to the shaft. One thing that is possible is, if that is slipping, the prop would be slipping as well. One way to find out would be to pull the shaft part way out, loosen the grub screw and pull the drive dog away from the prop. If there's scrapes on the sides of the shaft, that would mean it's slipping, not a hard fix:
1) If there isn't a flat spot on the shaft, you would need to file one into the shaft so the grub screw has a flat surface to but up against
2) Slide the drive dog back down the shaft so it engages the slots in the prop hub
3) Apply thread lock to the threads of the grub screw
4) While holding the drive dog tight against the prop, tighten the grub screw down, making sure it lands on the flat area filed into the shaft
After you're done with that, time for another test run

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by ross100 (Post 12623380)
Mate, it talks about boat hull sitting too low in water and to angle the trim tabs at back of boat up. Where are these trim tabs located please? Over and out.

They would be at the back of the boat, even with the bottom of the sponsons, the parts of the hull that extend down lower than the center. if your boat matches the picture I found on line, it doesn't have them

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 05:51 PM

If it's not the drive dog or too large of battery, either you have a motor or ESC issue. Those I won't be able to help you with, it would take a call to the manufacturer's customer service department

ross100 08-08-2020 09:58 PM

Thanks chief
 
Cheers pal, will look into all these, youíre a star!

ross100 08-08-2020 09:59 PM

Cool!
 
Thanks chief will look into all these 👍🏻

ross100 08-08-2020 10:03 PM

Thought
 
When the propellar goes into the notches of the drive dog, should it move a little on these notches? Warmest Regards.

Ross

ross100 08-08-2020 10:08 PM

Pps
 
Pps I wasnít able to move the drive dog when I took its grub screw out, could move the drive dog up and down the shaft. Thereís a wee round metal circular bit where the shaft or flex cable is it goes onto the back of the boat. When I press throttle, this comes out and spins and lyes against the back of the Drive dog. Is that normal please?

Hydro Junkie 08-08-2020 10:46 PM

Not that I know of. That could be a bushing that should stay inside the strut. I would need to see it to know for sure. Is the strut moving at all or is it just that round part?

ross100 08-08-2020 11:25 PM

Hey
 
Yeah the strut moves then as press throttle, the bushing bit think you said spins out and lies against the drive dog. Could water be getting in this way chief?

ross100 08-08-2020 11:31 PM

Pps
 
Pps was just thinking, last resort if you were up for it and had time, could always send the boat to you and refund you for return postage, would happy to pay you to look at. Thereís a guy at school who think knows a lot about rc boats like you or knows something about them. Could maybe show him first potentially. Iím back to work tomorrow 👍🏻😎

Hydro Junkie 08-09-2020 02:50 AM

Do you have an email or phone number for the manufacturer? If so, I would contact them and let them know about the issues you've been having AND about the bushing that's loose in the strut. They might just send you a new strut and let you try it out. Option 2 would be to order a new strut and pay for it yourself. My only issue there is that it let's the manufacturer "off the hook". You can let your guy at school look at it and see what he thinks as well, before talking with the manufacturer. Worse that can happen is that they ask you to send it in for repairs. I'm just glad you found the defective strut as it may have been the cause of all your problems since the beginning

ross100 08-09-2020 03:57 AM

Spot on
 
Yes I agree bud, this could be where the water is lot on, am I right in thinking? What would the new strut with bushing look like? Thanks bud. Ross 👍🏻


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